tax breaks for the rich vs cuts for the people

[Mr. Shaman]

Specifically HOW?

Enumerate all the things the wealthy benefit from that the rest of America doesn't.

Ok lets do it

US Military: How does the US Military help poor Americans other than taking their sons and daughters? The US Military maintaining a stable global presence ensures that international investments of the wealthy are protected.

Well, first of all, the military is NOT comprised of poor people. The demograhpics of the US military today is comprised of mostly upper-middle-class.

That's what Porky Limbaugh says, huh??

Best & Brightest; By BUSHCO

***​

"Our armed forces are under incredible strain, and the only way that they can fill their recruiting quotas is by lowering their standards."

Criminal History Waivers​

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/waiverdetails.htm

*​

"A new FBI report confirms that white supremacists are infiltrating the military for several reasons."

Nazis In The Military​

 

[TheSeeker]

Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue
Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue

I see you backed off the part about the military being comprised of the poor? You're learning!
Many people also use the military as a way to get educated through the GI Bill.
Furthermore, that military does much more than what you claim and you know damned well it does. Plus, if the military ensures the free flow of oil for example, that benefits the poor moreso than the wealthy. Higher gas prices affect the poor more than the wealthy.

Not quite. That road and bridge may allow me to get to work. But it allows the wealthy to have their workforce and customers reach them at low cost. It also allows them to move goods and services cheaply to a larger market. The wealthy benefit much more than the workers

It also allows the grocery store to stock FOOD...the poor eat food too.
It also allows the ambulance, police, and mailman to assist the poor. The ambulance takes poor folks to the hospital, the police protect the poor and respond to more calls in poor neighborhoods than they do wealthy ones, the mailman delivers their SS and welfare checks.
Everyone benefits from our infrastructure equally.

No. The wealthy should pay to educate their workers. Why should the taxpayers do it for you?

The wealthy pay the most taxes that educate the poor so that if they actually APPLY what they learn, they may one day be rich too. But I agree, get rid of public education. No school taxes. And what you don't pay in school taxes you can send your kids to a for-profit school with better teachers.

What happens if we get rid of all those things? Now you can't find workers in your area to work for $10 an hour. They can't afford to work for you and pay their rent, food and medical care. When the taxpayer pays for those things...you get to pay your employees less

You just said the wealthy benefit the most from paying taxes, yet what you say here indicates that the poor are benefitting the most from those programs??

The business owner will always have people willing to work for them.

You probably have a job.....unless you are an evil rich person who owns a business? So is the ONLY way you can afford to work at your job dependent upon welfare and housing allowances?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Specifically HOW?

Enumerate all the things the wealthy benefit from that the rest of America doesn't.

Ok lets do it

US Military: How does the US Military help poor Americans other than taking their sons and daughters? The US Military maintaining a stable global presence ensures that international investments of the wealthy are protected.

Infrastructure: Roads, bridges, rail lines, ports all enable the wealthy to quickly and efficiently move people and products at low cost

Education: Our publically funded education system provides an educated workforce at no cost to the wealthy. They are able to profit off these workers while taxpayers pay to educate them. What would it cost employers if all the workers they want to hire had to be educated from scratch?

Food Stamps, Medicaid, housing subsidies: What? The wealthy don't collect these things.
But by having the taxpayer subsidize your workers while you pay a substandard wage enables you to profit off these programs

How does the military help the poor?? Just like it helps every other citizen regardless of income.... by ensuring the other rights are there by protecting this country... for without it and those serving, you would have none of it

YEAH!!

They help protect our Nation Of.....​

Recession Survivors!!​

 

[hjmick]

The rich are people too...

 

[Big Fitz]

The rich are people too...

Not according to the left. They're food... hosts for them to be parasites on till they die, then a new host will come about for the parasitic left to glom onto.

 

[kiwiman127]

What have the wealthy been asked to sacrifice in this great present and future Era of Sacrifice that is upon us?

Specifically.

The top 10% pay more in taxes than the other 90% combined. They've sacrificed. They've invested. They've risked their money on business ventures, hiring, etc, etc.

With great risk comes great reward. Without great reward, why would anyone take a great risk, such as founding a company like WalMart or Microsoft? Not everyone can be a union gov't employee with a cushy and almost guaranteed lifelong income. Some people roll the dice and start business.

But unless the Great Risk = Great Reward equation, no one would risk inventions, innovations, etc, etc.


You libs just need to get over your extreme envy of the wealthy and realize that.

Innovation and jobs come from rich people and profits. Without that reward, why would anyone do anything more than a stable, gov't union job?

The top 1% now own more wealth than the bottom 90%. So comparing wealth to taxes, the bottom pays a higher percentage of taxes.
Also, two thirds of the economy of the US is consumer driven. The middle class spends almost their entire expendable income driving the economy, yet get no breaks. It's a fact that the working class wages have been held down while the top percentile's wealth has grown to record levels. How much longer can a capitalistic consumer driven economy survive when the consumer classes expendable income shrinks?
As proven here (http://www.workinglife.org/wiki/Wages+and+Benefits:+Real+Wages+(1964-2004), Labor Department Statistics show that wages have been seriously flat for decades in Real Dollars. In other words, the working class hasn't benefited from from high productivity that contributed to good profits, they have been held down, is that not class warfare?

 

[Bern80]

I think that the fact that 50% of Americans do not earn enough to even qualify for minimum Federal tax is a disgrace.

It shows how screwed up our distribution of wealth is

It shows you just don't get it righty. Wealth is not distributed. It is generated by the efforts of individuals. You're not supposed to be able generate money simply by taking up space. YOU have to figure out how to get it. If wealth is distrubuted unevenly in this country it is NOT the result of certain peopel being deprived of it by others. It is the result of certain people refusing to take the actions necessary to generate an income that is acceptable to themselves.

No it is not. It is more of a reflection of how taxes are routed to ensure the continued generation of wealth for the rich. Tax shelters, labor laws, environmental regulation, infrastructure, education.....all benefit the rich

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

So you honestly believe if we had a very simple tax code (which I'm for), one were there weren't so many breaks for the rich to take advantage of, say a national 15% sales tax or a simple single percentage of income regardless of income, the distribution of wealth would change? That the wealthy would have signifcantly less money?

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

This notion that wealth should be distributed evenly is a load of crap. Wealth should be distributed based on the value and efforts of individuals. And the reality you refuse to see is the reason wealth is distributed the way it is the result of the CHOICES people have made. And an awful lot of people have decided NOT to pursue wealth. They have decided to pursue jobs. Most of which are not too conducive to wealth accumulation.

 

[rightwinger]

It shows you just don't get it righty. Wealth is not distributed. It is generated by the efforts of individuals. You're not supposed to be able generate money simply by taking up space. YOU have to figure out how to get it. If wealth is distrubuted unevenly in this country it is NOT the result of certain peopel being deprived of it by others. It is the result of certain people refusing to take the actions necessary to generate an income that is acceptable to themselves.

No it is not. It is more of a reflection of how taxes are routed to ensure the continued generation of wealth for the rich. Tax shelters, labor laws, environmental regulation, infrastructure, education.....all benefit the rich

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

So you honestly believe if we had a very simple tax code (which I'm for), one were there weren't so many breaks for the rich to take advantage of, say a national 15% sales tax or a simple single percentage of income regardless of income, the distribution of wealth would change? That the wealthy would have signifcantly less money?

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

This notion that wealth should be distributed evenly is a load of crap. Wealth should be distributed based on the value and efforts of individuals. And the reality you refuse to see is the reason wealth is distributed the way it is the result of the CHOICES people have made. And an awful lot of people have decided NOT to pursue wealth. They have decided to pursue jobs. Most of which are not too conducive to wealth accumulation.

I have never advocated that wealth be distributed evenly..

However, given the current disparity in wealth in this country I do advocated that we discontinue breaks and incentives that benefit the wealthy.

 

[NYcarbineer]

no, it show a "progressive tax system" that punishes hard work and success.

The wealthy in this country make money off of having money and not physical work.
I dont begrudge them that but I sure do insist they pay back the country which gave themn those opportunitires by helping us maintain this awesome countrys ability to keep doing so.


You repair and tend the tree or it splits in two when the fruit hangs too long on the tree uneaten

Wrong, many many wealthy businessmen work long long long hours, you shouldn't just spew shit for the sake of spewing it.

The government of the US,, on all levels, federal, state, city, country provides a basic education for every American kid and millions of illegal kids too.. there's the start of your basic level playing field. take advantage of that and work yourself up. we seem to have reared a generation of "I must have it now" people. Me? I was born poor and had to work hard to get what I can now call mine. Not yours.. Mine. Go get your own, but you might have to break a sweat now and then.

Are you opposed to having a public education system that is available to all Americans regardless of their ability to pay?

 

[Claudette]

Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue
Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue

I see you backed off the part about the military being comprised of the poor? You're learning!
Many people also use the military as a way to get educated through the GI Bill.
Furthermore, that military does much more than what you claim and you know damned well it does. Plus, if the military ensures the free flow of oil for example, that benefits the poor moreso than the wealthy. Higher gas prices affect the poor more than the wealthy.

Not quite. That road and bridge may allow me to get to work. But it allows the wealthy to have their workforce and customers reach them at low cost. It also allows them to move goods and services cheaply to a larger market. The wealthy benefit much more than the workers

It also allows the grocery store to stock FOOD...the poor eat food too.
It also allows the ambulance, police, and mailman to assist the poor. The ambulance takes poor folks to the hospital, the police protect the poor and respond to more calls in poor neighborhoods than they do wealthy ones, the mailman delivers their SS and welfare checks.
Everyone benefits from our infrastructure equally.

No. The wealthy should pay to educate their workers. Why should the taxpayers do it for you?

The wealthy pay the most taxes that educate the poor so that if they actually APPLY what they learn, they may one day be rich too. But I agree, get rid of public education. No school taxes. And what you don't pay in school taxes you can send your kids to a for-profit school with better teachers.

What happens if we get rid of all those things? Now you can't find workers in your area to work for $10 an hour. They can't afford to work for you and pay their rent, food and medical care. When the taxpayer pays for those things...you get to pay your employees less

You just said the wealthy benefit the most from paying taxes, yet what you say here indicates that the poor are benefitting the most from those programs??

The business owner will always have people willing to work for them.

You probably have a job.....unless you are an evil rich person who owns a business? So is the ONLY way you can afford to work at your job dependent upon welfare and housing allowances?

I agree S.

People should consider who would be paying the lions share of the taxes if there WERE NO RICH TO PAY THEM??

Why the only class left. The middle class. Those that don't pay anything now sure as hell wouldn't be paying anything if there were no "evil rich" out there.

Does anyone think that the tax burden would be any less??

I sure don't and I sure don't want to pay what the wealthy are paying. Do you??

I'd say that the Rich come in pretty damned handy.

But then I'm not envious of what they have.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You can certainly make the arguement that 50% of the people are under Taxed.. They pay no tax, and they even get tax rebates,, you however cannot make the argument that the rich are undertaxed they pay a large share of the tax burden 50% of youse pay ZERO federal income tax and receive tax money you never paid back.. I'd say youse got it good.

So, how many of you agree with Willow?

That what we really need to do in this country, tax wise, is to RAISE taxes on the poorer and CUT taxes on the richer.

Just equal % taxation on all citizens, regardless of income... I don't care if it is at the 38%, as long as it is for everyone and justified with reviews of proper government spending and reducing the debt

So you do in fact support raising taxes on the poorer while lowering taxes on the richer, which is what would have to be done to get to 'equal %'.

1. Is that a mainstream Conservative view? Do you believe most on the Right support that?

2. Would you also support eliminating all exemptions, deductions, and credits for children, which probably more than anything create the unequal % 'problem' you're talking about.

 

[bucs90]

The pure envy being spewed by the left is disgusting.

They can't admit it. But their entire argument is 99% envy driven. Not necessity driven. Envy driven.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

It shows you just don't get it righty. Wealth is not distributed. It is generated by the efforts of individuals. You're not supposed to be able generate money simply by taking up space. YOU have to figure out how to get it. If wealth is distrubuted unevenly in this country it is NOT the result of certain peopel being deprived of it by others. It is the result of certain people refusing to take the actions necessary to generate an income that is acceptable to themselves.

No it is not. It is more of a reflection of how taxes are routed to ensure the continued generation of wealth for the rich. Tax shelters, labor laws, environmental regulation, infrastructure, education.....all benefit the rich

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

BULLSHIT!!!!

You've got that (just) a LITTLE backwards!!!!​

"A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt expressed alarm about the dangerous concentration of wealth and power in the U.S. and called on the incoming 60th Congress to establish a federal estate tax on large fortunes. Its primary objective, Roosevelt said, "should be to put a constantly increasing burden on the inheritance of those swollen fortunes which it is certainly of no benefit to this country to perpetuate."

A more careful look would disclose another fundamental factor in wealth creation—being born in America. (What Warren Buffett refers to as winning the game of ovarian roulette.)

What is so special about place of birth?

First off, economists agree that the presence of a stable market for goods and assets adds 30% to the value of everything we own—we have that in America, and that increases wealth.

Second, economists tell us that 50% of the annual growth in our economy is a function of the introduction of new technology—we have that in America, and my family knows first-hand about how new technology can increase wealth.

But the benefits of being an American don’t stop there.

In no other country in the world is the federal government spending more money on research. The United States spends some $96 billion every year on fundamental research in universities and laboratories all over this country.

And what comes of this research? Well for starters how about things like jet engines, integrated circuits, the human genome, or the Internet. Clearly the largest and most generous venture capitalist in the universe is Uncle Sam.

It is clear that the folks who have become wealthy from this significant social investment did not do it alone. I believe their estates owe something back to the society that enabled the creation of that wealth."

Bill Gates, Sr.​

 

[NYcarbineer]

The rich are people too...

Not according to the left. They're food... hosts for them to be parasites on till they die, then a new host will come about for the parasitic left to glom onto.

I'm asking what sacrifice the Rich should make towards balancing the budget,

since to balance the budget, sacrifices MUST be made.

So far the answer, from conservatives here, via silence, is NONE.

Are you in agreement? Do you believe the Rich should be exempted from sacrifice needed to balance the budget?

Should all of that sacrifice fall on the non-Rich?

 

[rightwinger]

Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue
Our military has not protected the continental US from invasion in 150 years. Our military global presence helps protect the wealthy and ensure continued revenue

I see you backed off the part about the military being comprised of the poor? You're learning!
Many people also use the military as a way to get educated through the GI Bill.
Furthermore, that military does much more than what you claim and you know damned well it does. Plus, if the military ensures the free flow of oil for example, that benefits the poor moreso than the wealthy. Higher gas prices affect the poor more than the wealthy.

We are talking about the top 2% of wealthy Americans here and no ...they do not join the military. The military is comprised primarily of poor and working class Americans. Our military global presence ensures that their is a free flow of goods and services and that critical comodities are not cut off. That benefits the wealthy who are making their money off of this comerce

Not quite. That road and bridge may allow me to get to work. But it allows the wealthy to have their workforce and customers reach them at low cost. It also allows them to move goods and services cheaply to a larger market. The wealthy benefit much more than the workers

It also allows the grocery store to stock FOOD...the poor eat food too.
It also allows the ambulance, police, and mailman to assist the poor. The ambulance takes poor folks to the hospital, the police protect the poor and respond to more calls in poor neighborhoods than they do wealthy ones, the mailman delivers their SS and welfare checks.
Everyone benefits from our infrastructure equally.

Bull shit. The wealthy and the business owners benefit disproportionally from our internal infrastructure. Rich folks go to the hospital also but they make their money off of being able to buy supplies cheaply and move their finished product to a wide area at limited cost.

No. The wealthy should pay to educate their workers. Why should the taxpayers do it for you?

The wealthy pay the most taxes that educate the poor so that if they actually APPLY what they learn, they may one day be rich too. But I agree, get rid of public education. No school taxes. And what you don't pay in school taxes you can send your kids to a for-profit school with better teachers.

Get rid of public funded education and see where that leaves business. Let them have to pay to teach their workforce to read and write. Let them pay to teach their workers specialized skills. Right now, the taxpayers foot the bill

What happens if we get rid of all those things? Now you can't find workers in your area to work for $10 an hour. They can't afford to work for you and pay their rent, food and medical care. When the taxpayer pays for those things...you get to pay your employees less

You just said the wealthy benefit the most from paying taxes, yet what you say here indicates that the poor are benefitting the most from those programs??

The business owner will always have people willing to work for them.

No they won't. Businesses rely on a localized workforce that can afford to live in the commuting area of that business. If you are paying $10 an hour for your employees and they can't afford the rent...they move. If the taxpayer picks up the rent, they can afford to work for you

You probably have a job.....unless you are an evil rich person who owns a business? So is the ONLY way you can afford to work at your job dependent upon welfare and housing allowances?

Comments in bold
The wealthy benefit from our taxes by a significant margin more than working Americans. That is how they make their profit

 

[Charles_Main]

Infographic: Tax Breaks vs. Budget Cuts






ThinkProgress » Show Me The Money: As Colorado Slashes Funds For Education, Tom Cruise Pays $400 In Property Taxes


Colorado, Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) is proposing a massive $375 million cut to education funding and proposing to close four state parks. Meanwhile, Tom Cruise, whose net worth exceeds $250 million, pays Colorado just $400 a year in property taxes for a 248 -acre property outside of Telluride that he purchased for $18 million.

How does he do it? By manipulating a tax break designed to help struggling farmers. The Denver Post reports

This just in from the Desk of TM. If you are well off in America. You are not one of the People.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The rich are people too...

Not according to the left. They're food... hosts for them to be parasites on till they die, then a new host will come about for the parasitic left to glom onto.

I'm asking what sacrifice the Rich should make towards balancing the budget,

since to balance the budget, sacrifices MUST be made.

So far the answer, from conservatives here, via silence, is NONE.

Are you in agreement? Do you believe the Rich should be exempted from sacrifice needed to balance the budget?

Should all of that sacrifice fall on the non-Rich?

Oh brother.. it never ends... the evil rich.

 

[Bern80]

No it is not. It is more of a reflection of how taxes are routed to ensure the continued generation of wealth for the rich. Tax shelters, labor laws, environmental regulation, infrastructure, education.....all benefit the rich

The Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules

That's basically what you're saying. You are claming an individual's wealth is determined by the tax advantages their wealth allows. Which is still nonsensical because the individual STILL would have had to take an action on their own to attain the wealth that allowed those advantages in the first place.

BULLSHIT!!!!

You've got that (just) a LITTLE backwards!!!!​

"A century ago, President Theodore Roosevelt expressed alarm about the dangerous concentration of wealth and power in the U.S. and called on the incoming 60th Congress to establish a federal estate tax on large fortunes. Its primary objective, Roosevelt said, "should be to put a constantly increasing burden on the inheritance of those swollen fortunes which it is certainly of no benefit to this country to perpetuate."

A more careful look would disclose another fundamental factor in wealth creation—being born in America. (What Warren Buffett refers to as winning the game of ovarian roulette.)

What is so special about place of birth?

First off, economists agree that the presence of a stable market for goods and assets adds 30% to the value of everything we own—we have that in America, and that increases wealth.

Second, economists tell us that 50% of the annual growth in our economy is a function of the introduction of new technology—we have that in America, and my family knows first-hand about how new technology can increase wealth.

But the benefits of being an American don’t stop there.

In no other country in the world is the federal government spending more money on research. The United States spends some $96 billion every year on fundamental research in universities and laboratories all over this country.

And what comes of this research? Well for starters how about things like jet engines, integrated circuits, the human genome, or the Internet. Clearly the largest and most generous venture capitalist in the universe is Uncle Sam.

It is clear that the folks who have become wealthy from this significant social investment did not do it alone. I believe their estates owe something back to the society that enabled the creation of that wealth."

Bill Gates, Sr.​

And since our conversation about wealth distribution is relegated only to the U.S., the above is irrelevent. Thanks for playing.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The pure envy being spewed by the left is disgusting.

They can't admit it. But their entire argument is 99% envy driven. Not necessity driven. Envy driven.

Yeah.....that's what it is.....​

"I never really noticed what people were actually going through until now; until we're actually going through it too."

Homeless Children: The Hard Times Generation​

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Infographic: Tax Breaks vs. Budget Cuts






ThinkProgress » Show Me The Money: As Colorado Slashes Funds For Education, Tom Cruise Pays $400 In Property Taxes


Colorado, Gov. John Hickenlooper (D) is proposing a massive $375 million cut to education funding and proposing to close four state parks. Meanwhile, Tom Cruise, whose net worth exceeds $250 million, pays Colorado just $400 a year in property taxes for a 248 -acre property outside of Telluride that he purchased for $18 million.

How does he do it? By manipulating a tax break designed to help struggling farmers. The Denver Post reports

This just in from the Desk of TM. If you are well off in America. You are not one of the People.

Savage is right... liberalism is indeed a mental disorder.