Taking TDS to a new level, Liz Cheney for President?

[beagle9]

She voted for Trump initiatives 93% of the time. That's pretty solid conservative credentials.

Ok then what changed her, otherwise what outed her ?

 

[Foxfyre]

Why? Trump wasn't a conservative, he's a neocon and has raging TDS. I'd agree they were Republican credentials, but W was no conservative.

Thank you W for the TSA, adding a prescription drug giveaway to Medicare, endless wars in other people's business and other massive growth in government spending. Bush and conservative don't go in the same sentence. Oh wait, I just did, LOL

Um, Trump was against war, especially endless wars, pro as much liberty and individual initiative/entrepreneurship as possible, pro free trade but it had to be fair trade, pro smaller, less authoritative, less intrusive federal government, focus on what's good for America and Americans as opposed to the NWO. What's neocon about that? Neocons are pretty much opposite all that.

 

[kaz]

Um, Trump was against war, especially endless wars, pro as much liberty and individual initiative/entrepreneurship as possible, pro free trade but it had to be fair trade, pro smaller, less authoritative, less intrusive federal government. What's neocon about that? Neocons are pretty much opposite all that.

I can't process how you can even say that with all the wars W got us in. And then he doubled down on stupid by playing into the Democrats hands politically by not responding to their lies. W viewed himself as Reaganesque, above the fray. To everyone else, he looked clueless and uninformed.

W was not a stupid man, but he was a neocon. He loved wars to push US influence. He was a neocon, by definition. The Democrats made him pay, and he did nothing to respond. And the United States paid the price

 

[Foxfyre]

Ok then what changed her, otherwise what outed her ?

TDS does terrible things to people. I've seen that play out in government and also in a couple of people I know personally. It's putting hatred ahead of every sense of ethics, integrity, principle a person ever once held.

 

[Foxfyre]

I can't process how you can even say that with all the wars W got us in. And then he doubled down on stupid by playing into the Democrats hands politically by not responding to their lies. W viewed himself as Reaganesque, above the fray. To everyone else, he looked clueless and uninformed.

W was not a stupid man, but he was a neocon. He loved wars to push US influence. He was a neocon, by definition. The Democrats made him pay, and he did nothing to respond. And the United States paid the price

I don't think you read what I wrote. I didn't disagree that HGWB or GWB or Cheney were neocons. I strongly said Trump was not neocon. Your Post #142 said Trump wasn't conservative, he was a neocon and had raging TDS. I was just rebutting that.

 

[kaz]

I don't think you read what I wrote. I didn't disagree that HGWB or GWB or Cheney were neocons. I strongly said Trump was not neocon.

Thank you for the clarification, and I agree Trump is not neocon. Clearly, he's not. We had fewer wars than under any President since Carter.

Anyway, I don't know what "Trump initiatives" are exactly, that sounds like an excuse to cherry pick her votes to get them as high as possible. Trump wasn't a neocon, but he's not really conservative either. I'd have to see the votes, I disagreed with Trump all the time. Voting with him still isn't a standard for conservative in my view.

It is why Democrats will turn on her at the first opportunity though. Again she turned herself into nothing but a tactical convenience for the left and after that, she's done

 

[Foxfyre]

Thank you for the clarification, and I agree Trump is not neocon. Clearly, he's not. We had fewer wars than under any President since Carter.

Thank you for the clarification, and I agree Trump is not neocon. Clearly, he's not. We had fewer wars than under any President since Carter.

Anyway, I don't know what "Trump initiatives" are exactly, that sounds like an excuse to cherry pick her votes to get them as high as possible. Trump wasn't a neocon, but he's not really conservative either. I'd have to see the votes, I disagreed with Trump all the time. Voting with him still isn't a standard for conservative in my view.

It is why Democrats will turn on her at the first opportunity though. Again she turned herself into nothing but a tactical convenience for the left and after that, she's done

Re the paragraph in your post I bolded, that's for sure. Trump policies were speak truth, promote peace, and carry a big stick that our enemies know we will use if they provoke us. North Korean missiles stopped flying over South Korea and Japan, the war in Syria ended, Iran, China, and Russia were not saber rattling, we were winding down the eternal war in Afghanistan in a way that would have safely removed all U.S. troops and equipment and left the Afghan government and U.S. interests intact. There were unbelievable peace treaties between Israel and three Arab nations, ISIS was essentially neutralized, etc. etc. etc. I am 100% confident there would be no war in the Ukraine right now if Trump was still in the White House. We had the closest thing to peace in our time that I've experienced in my now very long life.

Trump was conservative as it is defined in classical liberalism aka libertarianism (small 'L'). His concept for government activism was not in throwing $$$ at problems and pretending government is doing something great. His focus was on actually solving problems either via removal of restrictive policies/regulations that inhibit private initiative or in the interest of promoting the general welfare established a 'right to try' allowing terminal or chronically suffering people to participate in experimental treatments and medicine on the theory they had nothing to lose. Things like that.

He promoted trade agreements that were far more fair to America, utilized selective tariffs to stop intellectual and commercial theft by other countries, demanded other countries step up, pay and do their fair share in their own interests instead of expecting the USA to do it all. Companies were not leaving the U.S. in large number anymore and many were returning to the USA to do business because of his favorable business clime and policies.

At one time I think Liz Cheney would have embraced most of these concepts. But her TDS seems to have blinded her to anything other than hating and punishing Trump or anybody who supports him.

 

[kaz]

Re the paragraph in your post I bolded, that's for sure. Trump policies were speak truth, promote peace, and carry a big stick that our enemies know we will use if they provoke us. North Korean missiles stopped flying over South Korea and Japan, the war in Syria ended, Iran, China, and Russia were not saber rattling, we were winding down the eternal war in Afghanistan in a way that would have safely removed all U.S. troops and equipment and left the Afghan government and U.S. interests intact. There were unbelievable peace treaties between Israel and three Arab nations, ISIS was essentially neutralized, etc. etc. etc. I am 100% confident there would be no war in the Ukraine right now if Trump was still in the White House. We had the closest thing to peace in our time that I've experienced in my now very long life.

Trump was conservative as it is defined in classical liberalism aka libertarianism (small 'L'). His concept for government activism was not in throwing $$$ at problems and pretending government is doing something great. His focus was on actually solving problems either via removal of restrictive policies/regulations that inhibit private initiative or in the interest of promoting the general welfare established a 'right to try' allowing terminal or chronically suffering people to participate in experimental treatments and medicine on the theory they had nothing to lose.

He promoted trade agreements that were far more fair to America, utilized selective tariffs to stop intellectual and commercial theft by other countries, demanded other countries step up, pay and do their fair share in their own interests instead of expecting the USA to do it all. Companies were not leaving the U.S. in large number anymore and many were returning to the USA to do business because of his favorable business clime and policies.

At one time I think Liz Cheney would have embraced most of these concepts. But her TDS seems to have blinded her to anything other than hating and punishing Trump or anybody who supports him.

I am a Trump supporter, to be clear. I didn't vote for him in 2016, but I did in 2020 and I will in 2024. But I can't call him a conservative the way he spends money. He made an obligatory squawk but never put up any resistance to government growth

 

[JGalt]

 

[beagle9]

View attachment 701451

Is that the school teacher they've been talking about ? Oh wait.

 

[Foxfyre]

I am a Trump supporter, to be clear. I didn't vote for him in 2016, but I did in 2020 and I will in 2024. But I can't call him a conservative the way he spends money. He made an obligatory squawk but never put up any resistance to government growth

That is because he saw a great goal and a greater good. He did put up a lot of resistance to government growth and actually reduced government by a great deal in four short years. Yes, he gave in on stupid spending bills after achieving some compromises because he knew the President was never intended to be the dictator. Sometimes you have to compromise to get where you're going and then go back to clean up whatever messes were left in the wake.

But when he told Congress that if they didn't do this or did do that, he would veto it, he knew he meant it.

Bush 43 increased deficits by 57% Obama 58% Trump 33% and a great deal of that was due to greatly reduced revenues and exorbitantly higher expenditures to deal with the 2020 pandemic.

If Donald Trump was in the White House right now, the border would be mostly secure and we wouldn't be overrun by several million more illegals, the strategic petroleum reserve would be full instead of dangerously depleted, we would be exporting a lot of energy,
there would be no war in the Ukraine, the belligerent countries would be quiet instead of saber rattling, the federal reserve wouldn't be hiking interest rates at an alarming rate, the market would be more stabilized and our 401ks and IRAs would be in much better shape, and while we would be dealing with some inflation, the economy would be in far better shape than it is. And because of all of that, most of the world would also be benefitting.

But people like Liz Cheney don't care about any of that. They hate Trump and taking him down or keeping him down is all that matters to them.

 

[kaz]

That is because he saw a great goal and a greater good. He did put up a lot of resistance to government growth and actually reduced government by a great deal in four short years. Yes, he gave in on stupid spending bills after achieving some compromises because he knew the President was never intended to be the dictator. Sometimes you have to compromise to get where you're going and then go back to clean up whatever messes were left in the wake.

But when he told Congress that if they didn't do this or did do that, he would veto it, he knew he meant it.

Bush 43 increased deficits by 57% Obama 58% Trump 33% and a great deal of that was due to greatly reduced revenues and exorbitantly higher expenditures to deal with the 2020 pandemic.

If Donald Trump was in the White House right now, the strategic petroleum reserve would be full instead of dangerously depleted, we would be exporting a lot of energy,
there would be no war in the Ukraine, the belligerent countries would be quiet instead of saber rattling, the federal reserve wouldn't be hiking interest rates at an alarming rate, the market would be more stabilized and our 401ks and IRAs would be in much better shape, and while we would be dealing with some inflation, the economy would be in far better shape than it is. And because of all of that, most of the world would also be benefitting.

A lot of good examples of good Trump policies. But as for spending, I was and am still offended by how fast and how easily he signed massive spending bills

 

[Foxfyre]

A lot of good examples of good Trump policies. But as for spending, I was and am still offended by how fast and how easily he signed massive spending bills

Again if he had not done that with Democrats controlling Congress, they wouldn't have allowed him the pittance of funds he needed to make America great again. A terrible trade off but one that was necessary under the circumstances. Even so he accomplished more fiscal responsibility than either of his two predecessors.

 

[dudmuck]

Again if he had not done that with Democrats controlling Congress, they wouldn't have allowed him the pittance of funds he needed to make America great again. A terrible trade off but one that was necessary under the circumstances. Even so he accomplished more fiscal responsibility than either of his two predecessors.

republicans had control of congress for trumps first two years.

what you talking bout?

 

[Foxfyre]

republicans had control of congress for trumps first two years.

what you talking bout?

That is true but he had an unusual number of never Trumpers and RINOs amongst them including the Speaker of the House from 2017 through 2018. Most of those have now been voted out.

 

[dudmuck]

That is true but he had an unusual number of never Trumpers and RINOs amongst them including the Speaker of the House from 2017 through 2018. Most of those have now been voted out.

oh yea, well the stuff that trump was trying to do in the first two years wasnt gonna make america great.

 

[Foxfyre]

oh yea, well the stuff that trump was trying to do in the first two years wasnt gonna make america great.

Sorry but it did advance the vision of a free, strong, prosperous, great America. The Republicans did get through one of the best tax reform packages we have seen in our lifetime and it substantially increased personal/family income/wealth by thousands in ALL demographics. Biden has undone all that and personal/family income/wealth is way down in just two short years.

 

[beagle9]

That is because he saw a great goal and a greater good. He did put up a lot of resistance to government growth and actually reduced government by a great deal in four short years. Yes, he gave in on stupid spending bills after achieving some compromises because he knew the President was never intended to be the dictator. Sometimes you have to compromise to get where you're going and then go back to clean up whatever messes were left in the wake.

But when he told Congress that if they didn't do this or did do that, he would veto it, he knew he meant it.

Bush 43 increased deficits by 57% Obama 58% Trump 33% and a great deal of that was due to greatly reduced revenues and exorbitantly higher expenditures to deal with the 2020 pandemic.

If Donald Trump was in the White House right now, the border would be mostly secure and we wouldn't be overrun by several million more illegals, the strategic petroleum reserve would be full instead of dangerously depleted, we would be exporting a lot of energy,
there would be no war in the Ukraine, the belligerent countries would be quiet instead of saber rattling, the federal reserve wouldn't be hiking interest rates at an alarming rate, the market would be more stabilized and our 401ks and IRAs would be in much better shape, and while we would be dealing with some inflation, the economy would be in far better shape than it is. And because of all of that, most of the world would also be benefitting.

But people like Liz Cheney don't care about any of that. They hate Trump and taking him down or keeping him down is all that matters to them.

Preach it brother.... I'm to the point where I think impeachment is definitely in order if not activating the 25th first, and the nation's justice system revamped should seek to arrest the corrupt official's as soon as Biden is impeached. To allow these leftist (the one's found guilty of crimes) otherwise known as Democrat's, to walk free after all that they have done, uhhh would be a travesty of justice like we've never experienced before in this country. How can they survive not being prosecuted for what they've done to this country over the last 50 year's in which has led to a very serious decline today ?

 

[hjmick]

Is this a credible reason to run for President?

Absofuckinglutely.

 

[Foxfyre]

Preach it brother.... I'm to the point where I think impeachment is definitely in order if not activating the 25th first, and the nation's justice system revamped should seek to arrest the corrupt official's as soon as Biden is impeached. To allow these leftist (the one's found guilty of crimes) otherwise known as Democrat's, to walk free after all that they have done, uhhh would be a travesty of justice like we've never experienced before in this country. How can they survive not being prosecuted for what they've done to this country over the last 50 year's in which has led to a very serious decline today ?

We can't impeach Biden even if we had the votes to do it, which we don't. If we impeach him we get Kamala as President and God knows what as Vice President. We just have to get a strong enough GOP majority in the House and Senate to stop at least some of the damage they're doing.