Swiss do the unthinkable: deny Muslims citizenship.

[Papageorgio]

.............
They screech?

Are churches allowed to have bells?

Yes, they screech. I hope they have bell ringing. It's beautiful.

Bells ringing are beautiful, but not if you're stuck in the Bell Tower

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

 

[Coyote]

...

If noise is an issue, the Swiss could regulate in some form, on the basis of noise disturbing the public without banning minarets.

Well they had a referendum, and the people decided.
They are quite avid bell ringers, btw. But then it is a Christian nation.
God bless them.

Sometimes, what "the people" decide, isn't always a good thing - there's the danger of "tyranny of the majority" (for example popular referendums that restrict the civili rights of certain groups). Apparently, the decision is quite contentious with conflicting opinions, and also - whether it's really about minarets or a broader unease with Islamic immigrants.

The Real Reasons Why the Swiss Voted to Ban Minarets

The surprising vote reveals rather a growing unease in Switzerland, which traditionally has been one of the most open and most tolerant countries of the continent: Many Swiss are worried about the rise of political Islam and religious rules in Europe that are threatening hard-won rights such as equal rights for women and men, the secular rule of law above religion or the right of each individual to decide for him — or herself. ​

Swiss ban on minarets draws widespread condemnation

Muslim leaders from around the world, senior church figures, European politicians and human rights experts have deplored Switzerland's decision to ban the building of minarets.


The polarising verdict in a Swiss referendum held yesterday raised fundamental questions about discrimination and freedom of religion, with the Swiss government itself doubtful over whether the popular vote could be translated into national law, as required by the country's system of direct democracy.


"Scandalous," said the French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, while Babacar Ba, a senior official of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, warned of an "upsurge in Islamophobia" in Europe.


But far right leaders in Europe applauded the Swiss vote and called for parallel prohibitions in other countries.


"The flag of a courageous Switzerland which wants to remain Christian is flying over a near-Islamised Europe," said Mario Borghezio, an MEP from Italy's anti-immigrant Northern League.


In the Netherlands, the anti-Muslim Freedom party of Geert Wilders, which is steadily growing in popularity, called for a similar vote for the Dutch. "It's the first time that people in Europe have stood up to a form of Islamisation," it declared.

Despite Swiss fears of a violent backlash in the Islamic world and business fears of an adverse impact on Arab spending in Geneva and Zurich, as well as exports to the Middle East, Muslim leaders reacted mostly with sorrow. "The main thing is to keep calm and to realise how much work still needs to be done to defend basic freedoms," said Ba, the OIC ambassador in Geneva."We must do this by taking a constructive part in the debate on all issues which cause fear and concern, and to try to bring people together in order to confront extremism."​

I can understand banning the burka - it's not a religious symbol, it's not even called for in Islam, it's a cultural artifact. But it does seem that banning minarets is a blow at religious freedom from a country that is not some third world country with no human rights or religious freedom.

 

[Tilly]

Yes, they screech. I hope they have bell ringing. It's beautiful.

Bells ringing are beautiful, but not if you're stuck in the Bell Tower

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

 

[Coyote]

You have to hand it to some folks here.

Jihadis have slaughtered hundreds over the last few weeks, they promise to continue to slaughter as many as they can as soon as they can, they would love to slaughter the children and grandchildren of every poster on this board, and we're still having this back-and-forth.

How a person can hold to such a position is inexplicable. Although this guy has a good theory:

Who's supporting or defending extremists? Or, is this just another example of regressive stupidity on your part?

 

[Tilly]

...

If noise is an issue, the Swiss could regulate in some form, on the basis of noise disturbing the public without banning minarets.

Well they had a referendum, and the people decided.
They are quite avid bell ringers, btw. But then it is a Christian nation.
God bless them.

Sometimes, what "the people" decide, isn't always a good thing - there's the danger of "tyranny of the majority" (for example popular referendums that restrict the civili rights of certain groups). Apparently, the decision is quite contentious with conflicting opinions, and also - whether it's really about minarets or a broader unease with Islamic immigrants.

The Real Reasons Why the Swiss Voted to Ban Minarets

The surprising vote reveals rather a growing unease in Switzerland, which traditionally has been one of the most open and most tolerant countries of the continent: Many Swiss are worried about the rise of political Islam and religious rules in Europe that are threatening hard-won rights such as equal rights for women and men, the secular rule of law above religion or the right of each individual to decide for him — or herself. ​

Swiss ban on minarets draws widespread condemnation

Muslim leaders from around the world, senior church figures, European politicians and human rights experts have deplored Switzerland's decision to ban the building of minarets.


The polarising verdict in a Swiss referendum held yesterday raised fundamental questions about discrimination and freedom of religion, with the Swiss government itself doubtful over whether the popular vote could be translated into national law, as required by the country's system of direct democracy.


"Scandalous," said the French foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, while Babacar Ba, a senior official of the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, warned of an "upsurge in Islamophobia" in Europe.


But far right leaders in Europe applauded the Swiss vote and called for parallel prohibitions in other countries.


"The flag of a courageous Switzerland which wants to remain Christian is flying over a near-Islamised Europe," said Mario Borghezio, an MEP from Italy's anti-immigrant Northern League.


In the Netherlands, the anti-Muslim Freedom party of Geert Wilders, which is steadily growing in popularity, called for a similar vote for the Dutch. "It's the first time that people in Europe have stood up to a form of Islamisation," it declared.

Despite Swiss fears of a violent backlash in the Islamic world and business fears of an adverse impact on Arab spending in Geneva and Zurich, as well as exports to the Middle East, Muslim leaders reacted mostly with sorrow. "The main thing is to keep calm and to realise how much work still needs to be done to defend basic freedoms," said Ba, the OIC ambassador in Geneva."We must do this by taking a constructive part in the debate on all issues which cause fear and concern, and to try to bring people together in order to confront extremism."​

I can understand banning the burka - it's not a religious symbol, it's not even called for in Islam, it's a cultural artifact. But it does seem that banning minarets is a blow at religious freedom from a country that is not some third world country with no human rights or religious freedom.

The European Court of Human Rights upheld the ban as they found it constitutes no infringement on human rights nor on their ability to worship and practice their religion. Preventing European countries from sounding like they are annexed to Saudi Arabia is no great imposition IMO.

 

[Coyote]

Bells ringing are beautiful, but not if you're stuck in the Bell Tower

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

Nice dodge.

 

[MaryL]

It's not restrictive asking people to adequately integrate into a nation and adhere to it's laws and customs.

Switzerland is a peaceful nation, you make it sound like Saudi Arabia or North Korea, they're not going to chop someone's head or force someone to labour in a salt mine for the rest of their life or something.

I prefer a less restrictive form of "integration" - but as an American, that is what I'm used to. Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that. As long as our laws are obeyed, I'm fine with what people choose to do. But Switzerland is also a very small and homogenous nation - our culture isn't even the same from region to region. I'm not saying it's like NK or SA, but to me it would be stifling - no room for crazy dog ladies!

"Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that."

This is the fundamental difference between America and the European Continent, America was founded on immigration and you are continuously a nation of immigrants.

The European Continent consists of nations who's culture and heritage have been settled for almost Millenia, why should we want our nations disrupted in such ways as to flood us with alien cultures and peoples, we have nothing in common with each other and this all leads to a dangerous culture clash, we don't want this, we essentially just want to be left alone to continue as we are. This ISN'T a crime wanting this and it doesn't matter how many times the pro-Multiculturists shout and call us names, we're immune from the name calling now, it goes in one ear and out of the other.

I see your point, regarding Europe - but the immigrant experience isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can enrich a culture.

Where's the evidence for that? Whenever you have a country with more than one major ethnic group, you have the recipe for civil war.

It's enriched our country.

How so? Cattle droppings do the same thing. Most Muslim counties don't allow Christians to dissent and apostasy. They actually fine non believers. And they allow and condone the crashing of planes and the suicide bombers and ....This is the face of the NEW ISLAM. If there are ANY "GOOD Muslims", stop the bad ones, I will have respect for them. I am an apostate, I despise religion and Islam is on the top of the list of kool aid drinkers fascist morons.

 

[TooTall]

Put it under suspicion of supporting ISIS and it works for me.

Kind of like Trump is a rapist because some woman accused him of it.

Okay.

Not even close.

So accusation does not prove guilt? So all Muslims are innocent of supporting ISIS until proven otherwise.

Whether they are innocent or not, there's absolutely no reason for us to import them into the U.S.A. The innocent and the guilty can sort themselves out where they live now.

Exactly, the West should never have interfered in the Middle East to begin with, they've always fought amongst each other, we should have left them alone to continue fighting each other and either just kill each other or sort their own problems with each other out in whatever way they might.

Are you sure we should have left Osama bin Laden alone so he could organize a new and better way than 911 to attack the US?

 

[Tilly]

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

Nice dodge.

It's a dodge to remind the poster this thread is about Switzerland and not the American Constitution? Lol.

 

[Papageorgio]

Bells ringing are beautiful, but not if you're stuck in the Bell Tower

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

Sad that they will ban a freedom so quickly, helps me appreciate the freedom that the American Constitution allows. That would never fly in this country.

 

[Coyote]

I prefer a less restrictive form of "integration" - but as an American, that is what I'm used to. Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that. As long as our laws are obeyed, I'm fine with what people choose to do. But Switzerland is also a very small and homogenous nation - our culture isn't even the same from region to region. I'm not saying it's like NK or SA, but to me it would be stifling - no room for crazy dog ladies!

"Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that."

This is the fundamental difference between America and the European Continent, America was founded on immigration and you are continuously a nation of immigrants.

The European Continent consists of nations who's culture and heritage have been settled for almost Millenia, why should we want our nations disrupted in such ways as to flood us with alien cultures and peoples, we have nothing in common with each other and this all leads to a dangerous culture clash, we don't want this, we essentially just want to be left alone to continue as we are. This ISN'T a crime wanting this and it doesn't matter how many times the pro-Multiculturists shout and call us names, we're immune from the name calling now, it goes in one ear and out of the other.

I see your point, regarding Europe - but the immigrant experience isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can enrich a culture.

Where's the evidence for that? Whenever you have a country with more than one major ethnic group, you have the recipe for civil war.

It's enriched our country.

How so? Cattle droppings do the same thing. Most Muslim counties don't allow Christians to dissent and apostasy. They actually fine non believers. And they allow and the crashing planes and the suicide bombers and ....This is the face of the NEW ISLAM. If there are ANY "GOOD Muslims", stop the bad ones, I will have respect for them. I am an apostate, I despise religion and Islam is on the top of the list of kool aid drinkers fascist morons.

So we should be like most Muslim countries?

I disagree.

 

[Coyote]

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

Nice dodge.

It's a dodge to remind the poster this thread is about Switzerland and not the American Constitution? Lol.

It's a selective dodge that ignores other (favorable to your point of view) digressions from the OP.

But it all essentially, belongs in the conversation - because Switzerland's action is about religious freedoms.

 

[Coyote]

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

Sad that they will ban a freedom so quickly, helps me appreciate the freedom that the American Constitution allows. That would never fly in this country.

I can understand local's placing limits on "call to prayer" decibels etc under a noise ordinance, but banning minarets period strikes me as a bit much. Religious freedom is an important value - at least here - even if I disagree with a religion, I'd fight for that right.

 

[OKTexas]

I prefer a less restrictive form of "integration" - but as an American, that is what I'm used to. Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that. As long as our laws are obeyed, I'm fine with what people choose to do. But Switzerland is also a very small and homogenous nation - our culture isn't even the same from region to region. I'm not saying it's like NK or SA, but to me it would be stifling - no room for crazy dog ladies!

"Switzerland is not an immigrant nation - we are, and our culture reflects that."

This is the fundamental difference between America and the European Continent, America was founded on immigration and you are continuously a nation of immigrants.

The European Continent consists of nations who's culture and heritage have been settled for almost Millenia, why should we want our nations disrupted in such ways as to flood us with alien cultures and peoples, we have nothing in common with each other and this all leads to a dangerous culture clash, we don't want this, we essentially just want to be left alone to continue as we are. This ISN'T a crime wanting this and it doesn't matter how many times the pro-Multiculturists shout and call us names, we're immune from the name calling now, it goes in one ear and out of the other.

I see your point, regarding Europe - but the immigrant experience isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can enrich a culture.

Where's the evidence for that? Whenever you have a country with more than one major ethnic group, you have the recipe for civil war.

It's enriched our country.

How? What's the evidence that we are better off from non Anglo-Saxon immigrants?

If not for Vietnamese immigrants I wouldn't be able to get my hair cut for $5.00 including a 25% tip.

 

[Coyote]

Bells ringing are beautiful, but not if you're stuck in the Bell Tower

I adore the sound of church bells.

You may adore them but others find them annoying, should we ban the ringing of church bells?

If you want to try, have at it.

You can't ban it, that is the point, you can't ban the Muslim call to prayer either. They are both protected by the Constitution.

That's nice. But this thread is about Switzerland, where they had a referendum and banned minarets. Try to stay on topic.

I have to laugh - we are both wrong about the topic.

It's about the Swiss not giving citizenship to people they don't feel exemplify the swiss cultural character.

 

[BluesLegend]

You can't BFF Islamist Extremists hell bent on murder.

 

[ElmerMudd]

But the Crusades, the Crusades!

What about the Precambrian period? Time moves on. Dinosaurs and the crusades, deader than a door nail.

THOSE GODDAMN PRESBYTERIAN VELOCIRAPTORS!
.

It's more like those goddamn meteors that create massive die offs. Muslims much larger threat now in real time. When they get a hold of biological, nerve agents or nukes (it will happen), Daesh (sponsored by Saudi Arabia) will serve it up, they did on 9/11. I think we should have invaded Saudi Arabia and the hell with it.They are the real enemy here.

You feel that all 1.5 billion Muslims are the same?
And you also want to declare war on all 1.5 billion Muslims?
You are an ignorant small minded person.

 

[MaryL]

Why are we so afraid to speak the truth? Saudi Arabia was and will be our enemy until we stop worrying about oil and political correctness. We didn't choose to make Islam the enemy, it's the other way 'round. We could have dealt with this better than attacking Iraq.

 

[ElmerMudd]

It's "unthinkable" to American immigration officials, but not to any American capable of understanding common sense:

Swiss Do the Unthinkable: Deny Muslims Citizenship

In a move which no doubt has American immigration officials baffled, the Swiss are denying citizenship to Muslim after Muslim for failing to integrate into their society.

In this latest case, two Muslim girls were denied citizenship because they refused to swim in a pool with boys present. ​

Should do the same with any foreign entity in America. Mexicans,N!ggers,Jews etc.

What goes on in the head of an absolutly disgusting human like Odium.
He/she must be a miserable, hateful son of a *****.
It is very sad. He/she needs help

“In an insane world a sane man must appear insane.”

― C. William King

It's "unthinkable" to American immigration officials, but not to any American capable of understanding common sense:

Swiss Do the Unthinkable: Deny Muslims Citizenship

In a move which no doubt has American immigration officials baffled, the Swiss are denying citizenship to Muslim after Muslim for failing to integrate into their society.

In this latest case, two Muslim girls were denied citizenship because they refused to swim in a pool with boys present. ​

Should do the same with any foreign entity in America. Mexicans,N!ggers,Jews etc.

... Nazis like yourself, etc.

Still grasping at straws eh kid....it takes an extremely lazy person to not at least inform ones self about another's political beliefs ESPECIALLY when I have given the name of my beliefs more than 10 times....oh well I continue to ignore your stupidity bc its so hard to even take you seriously.

In a sane world, the insane think they are living in an insane world.

 

[longknife]

This picture shows nothing, except asses in the air, Islam has never been a part of either Switzerland or anyplace on the European Continent.

Tell that to Spain. Read a history book.

Read how that happened to Spain and how it was eventually rectified.

I have a Politics and History degree.

You're the one who claimed Islam has never been a part of Europe. That is a profoundly retarded statement.

The European Continent historically is Christian, Islam has never been part of our Continent and has never been accepted by a majority of this Continent and it never will be.

We could mention the Ottomans, I suppose you're a fan of the Ottomans?

So the existence of Islam in Spain for 9 centuries is a myth?

The peoples of North Africa moved into the Iberian Peninsula which had fallen into total anarchy after the departure of the Romans. They were an advanced society with great architecture and science. But, they were also bigoted and wreaked havoc on anyone who did not abide by their rules.

The armies of Aragon and Castille, along with other regional rules finally kicked them out in 1611. They were far more backward and bigoted than the peoples they kicked out.

Both societies treated the common people like crap.