Swiftboat Veterans for Truth

[Bonnie]

Rule #13!

Is this mostly a liberal phenomenon??????

 

[Annie]

Is this mostly a liberal phenomenon??????

Hmm, I guess! I never really thought of it. Could be that conservatives tend to read and follow the rules? LOL

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

Rule #13!

Ah, I see. You have to understand, I work nights and this was way early in the day for me. Sometimes it takes a bit for the little stuff to get through. :coffee3:

 

[Annie]

Ah, I see. You have to understand, I work nights and this was way early in the day for me. Sometimes it takes a bit for the little stuff to get through. :coffee3:

I understand, I think I may have thought the same!

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Do you think any of this will work it's way into the debates? Or will Bush try to stay above the fray???

I doubt that it will be brought up by either candidate in a debate. Kerry obviously doesn't want to talk about it and Bush has already taken the "high road" on the matter.

Smirkin' and other liberals have a point when they say that Kerry put his life on the line by just being over there in Vietnam. And that is what Bush is obviously acknowledging by not challenging Kerry's service record. Also Bush has been raked over the coals himself by the liberals regarding his service record so he knows what it feels like.

I would give more credence to the liberals' claim that Kerry went and Bush didn't if the liberals at the time had actually supported the war. Why did Kerry go if he was a Democrat? It obviously wasn't because he was an anti-communist.

In any case, the rest of us have a perfect right to listen to and discuss what the Swift Boat vets have to say about the matter. We have a perfect right to know what Kerry's record is because Kerry made it the primary reason why we should vote for him. We should have the right to hear both sides in the media.

However, the left is trying to stifle any news about it getting out in the media just like Smirkin in his small way is trying to stifle our discussion. There has been a huge liberal media blackout on the matter up to now. (as pointed out on another thread this blackout is beginning to crack however).

What I get from the liberals is they just want to claim Kerry as a hero and that's all they want anybody to hear. Forget the details! Just believe what we tell you!

Since the veterans who where there themselves know who was a real hero and who really wasn't, I want the right to hear these guys. I also want them to have their right to free speech although it is obvious the left doesn't. If Kerry is such a great hero, why won't he open his records?

Since we are the people voting for one of these two candidates we have the right and the responsibility to be informed about both candidates.

 

[Merlin1047]

What I get from the liberals is they just want to claim Kerry as a hero and that's all they want anybody to hear. Forget the details! Just believe what we tell you!

I'd probably remain silent but skeptical on kerry's Viet Nam record if it were not for his actions upon his return.

Here is a guy who chases medals for three and a half months then comes home and joins one of the most radical anti-war groups in existence. That simply proves to me that he is an unprincipled opportunist. Kerry returned home, found that war heroes didn't sell well with Democrat liberals back in the '70s, so he changed tactics and became a protester.

I could have accepted EVEN THAT, but then he went over the line. He accused those who served of routinely committing war crimes. Even worse, he did not present truthful evidence to support his assertions. His claims were, for the most part, totally fabricated. Many of his so-called "witnesses" had never actually set foot in southeast Asia. Kerry proved himself to be a conscienceless liar.

When one assesses kerry's actions from the beginning of his tour in Viet Nam to his statements and actions back in the USA, it paints the picture of a man totally lacking in principle and character. A sleazy, disgusting liar who will stop at nothing to achieve his own petty ambitions. He is indeed a sad commentary on the state of the Democratic party today and a damning statement on those blind and foolish enough to support him.

 

[spillmind]

forgive me if i don't go through all six pages of liberal hating to post this:

this is an easy one, and it's dead in the water. in fact, it just makes the bush camp look like LIARS, and lower than low!!

1. FACT CHECK: Swift Boat Veterans for Bush, 8/5/04
http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080504_truth.html
2. McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad, 8/5/04
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain
3. Republicans' Dishonorable Charge, 8/6/04
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/08/06/mccain_on_swift_boat_veterans/index_np.html
4. Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record, 8/15/04
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
5. From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity, 5/31/04
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3222-2004May30.html
6. AP, 8/5/04 (McCain); Nebraska State Paper, 8/7/04 (Johanns); MSNBC, Scarborough Country, 8/6/04 (Buchanan)
http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/archives/002445.html#more
7. Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush, 8/10/04
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005460

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated . . . I think the ad is wrong."

this tactic will in your face. it's even appalling that anyone challenge a man WHOSE PARENTS HAD MONEY went over there to fight.

meanwhile, daddy is helping jr. stay out of harm's way, and even the Lord knows bush would never put his life in harm's way, let alone HIS children!! that's what YOUR children are for!

 

[Jimmyeatworld]

forgive me if i don't go through all six pages of liberal hating to post this:

this is an easy one, and it's dead in the water. in fact, it just makes the bush camp look like LIARS, and lower than low!!

1. FACT CHECK: Swift Boat Veterans for Bush, 8/5/04
http://www.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/080504_truth.html
2. McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad, 8/5/04
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=536&e=3&u=/ap/20040805/ap_on_el_pr/kerry_mccain
3. Republicans' Dishonorable Charge, 8/6/04
http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2004/08/06/mccain_on_swift_boat_veterans/index_np.html
4. Republican-funded Group Attacks Kerry's War Record, 8/15/04
http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=231
5. From Bush, Unprecedented Negativity, 5/31/04
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3222-2004May30.html
6. AP, 8/5/04 (McCain); Nebraska State Paper, 8/7/04 (Johanns); MSNBC, Scarborough Country, 8/6/04 (Buchanan)
http://blog.johnkerry.com/rapidresponse/archives/002445.html#more
7. Shame on the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush, 8/10/04
http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110005460

Discussing the "Swift Boat" ad, Senator John McCain said, "I deplore this kind of politics." Nebraska Governor Mike Johanns (R) called the ad "trash" and even Pat Buchanan said "not a single charge is substantiated . . . I think the ad is wrong."

this tactic will in your face. it's even appalling that anyone challenge a man WHOSE PARENTS HAD MONEY went over there to fight.

meanwhile, daddy is helping jr. stay out of harm's way, and even the Lord knows bush would never put his life in harm's way, let alone HIS children!! that's what YOUR children are for!

Perhaps if you had bothered to read the other six pages, you would have seen that most of what you have here has already been discussed, including the McCain quote.

You spend all that time talking about unsubstaniated charges, then turn around and make an unsubstantiated charge against Bush. Difference is, the charge against Kerry is coming from people who were there, not from some faceless person on a message board.

 

[britinusa]

Perhaps if you had bothered to read the other six pages, you would have seen that most of what you have here has already been discussed, including the McCain quote.

You spend all that time talking about unsubstaniated charges, then turn around and make an unsubstantiated charge against Bush. Difference is, the charge against Kerry is coming from people who were there, not from some faceless person on a message board.

"Kerry served in Vietnam, Bush didn't. Case closed."

That's all we hear from the Democrats. 15,000 delegates spent four days in Boston celebrating John Kerry's four months in Vietnam; I wonder how many of them supported Bob Dole in '96?

Adolf Hitler fought bravely in WWI. I hear Attilla the Hun and Ghengis Khan were quite brave too. Kerry's brief sojourn in south-east Asia qualifies him for the presidency, right? Does that mean anyone who served longer than four months is more qualified? The SwiftVets, for example. Each of them served at least one 12 month tour of duty. What's that you say, dear Liberal? Kerry has served 19 years in the US Senate? You wouldn't have known that had you watched the convention. The Dems, including Kerry, weren't all that keen on talking about the his long stint (one third of his life) in the Senate, were they?

Unsubstantiated charges? The SwiftVets have already nailed Kerry over his mythical trip to Cambodia, and the bloggers are on the verge of eliminating one of the Band of Brothers, David Alston. More will follow.

 

[Annie]

"Kerry served in Vietnam, Bush didn't. Case closed."

That's all we hear from the Democrats. 15,000 delegates spent four days in Boston celebrating John Kerry's four months in Vietnam; I wonder how many of them supported Bob Dole in '96?

Adolf Hitler fought bravely in WWI. I hear Attilla the Hun and Ghengis Khan were quite brave too. Kerry's brief sojourn in south-east Asia qualifies him for the presidency, right? Does that mean anyone who served longer than four months is more qualified? The SwiftVets, for example. Each of them served at least one 12 month tour of duty. What's that you say, dear Liberal? Kerry has served 19 years in the US Senate? You wouldn't have known that had you watched the convention. The Dems, including Kerry, weren't all that keen on talking about the his long stint (one third of his life) in the Senate, were they?

Unsubstantiated charges? The SwiftVets have already nailed Kerry over his mythical trip to Cambodia, and the bloggers are on the verge of eliminating one of the Band of Brothers, David Alston. More will follow.

The bloggers are going to push this into the mainstream media, the same way they did Trent Lott's gaffe. It's beginning to 'crack'. You will have to click to get to the articles:

INSTAPUNDIT

August 17, 2004
DAM BREAKS: The L.A. Times has mentioned the Kerry Christmas-in-Cambodia story. On the other hand, according to Times- watcher Patterico, "The article is pro-Kerry spin, pure and simple. The strategy of the article is apparent: before actually setting forth a single detail of the Swift Boat Vets' allegations, the article carefully lays the groundwork to prepare the reader to be skeptical."

He has an extensive critique of the article, which is well worth reading. What's interesting is that this explicitly pro-Kerry oped by Joan Vennochi in the Boston Globe is actually more honest and straightforward in its reporting of the facts:


Kerry's statements about Cambodia do have traction for opponents. He has referred to spending Christmas or Christmas Eve 1968 in Cambodia and coming under fire. At the time Cambodia was neutral and supposedly off-limits to US troops. "I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia," Kerry said in 1986 at a Senate committee hearing on US policy toward Central America. "I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me."

The Kerry campaign now says Kerry's runs into Cambodia came in early 1969. "Swift boat crews regularly operated along the Cambodian border from Ha Tien on the Gulf of Thailand to the rivers of the Mekong south and west of Saigon," Michael Meehan, a Kerry adviser, said in a statement last week. "Many times he was on or near the Cambodian border and on one occasion crossed into Cambodia at the request of members of a special operations group."

Answers like that aren't good enough. Kerry put his Vietnam service before voters as the seminal character issue of his presidential campaign. He should answer every question voters have about it -- and he should answer them himself.


It's an interesting commentary, when partisan opeds provide less spin -- even on behalf of their own team -- than ostensible "news" stories do.

More thoughts on the L.A. Times coverage here: "Incredibly, the LAT ignores the fact that the Kerry camp has already admitted that Sen. Kerry has 'misremembered' the dates of his alleged forays past the Cambodian border."

It's hard to keep up with your guy's latest spin points in this Internet era. I'm not surprised at the spin myself, but spin is better than a blackout.

posted at 07:01 AM by Glenn Reynolds

 

[britinusa]

The bloggers are going to push this into the mainstream media, the same way they did Trent Lott's gaffe. It's beginning to 'crack'. You will have to click to get to the articles:

INSTAPUNDIT

If the LMM do cover this story, they'll spin it just like the LA Times did.
It's so frustrating. Kerry lied. He didn't go to Cambodia. We know it, the media knows it. The New York Times knows it, the Washington Post knows it. Dan Rather, Peter Jennings and Tom Brokaw (The Three Stooges) all know it. But they also know that if they set aside their liberal bias and do their jobs, Kerry is finished.
It's not going to happen.

 

[Annie]

If the LMM do cover this story, they'll spin it just like the LA Times did.
It's so frustrating. Kerry lied. He didn't go to Cambodia. We know it, the media knows it. The New York Times knows it, the Washington Post knows it. Dan Rather, Peter Jennings and Tom Brokaw (The Three Stooges) all know it. But they also know that if they set aside their liberal bias and do their jobs, Kerry is finished.
It's not going to happen.

You may be right, I think they will try to do what the LA Times did, but too many influential folk are no longer relying on the traditional media-which I believe the media is beginning, mind you, just beginning to get.

 

[Bonnie]

You may be right, I think they will try to do what the LA Times did, but too many influential folk are no longer relying on the traditional media-which I believe the media is beginning, mind you, just beginning to get.

Am looking for figures on this but I believe viewership on the 3 main network news stations has dwindled to 28% and steadily falling

 

[Annie]

Am looking for figures on this but I believe viewership on the 3 main network news stations has dwindled to 28% and steadily falling

and newspapers all over the country have confessed to lying about their circulation numbers. At the same time, blogging and reading news/political blogs is way up! At least you know where their bias is.

 

[dilloduck]

I'm afraid that Kerry could give a televised campaign speech admitting that he "exagerrated" the whole swift boat episode and no one would care .

 

[Annie]

I'm afraid that Kerry could give a televised campaign speech admitting that he "exagerrated" the whole swift boat episode and no one would care .

:scratch: Exaggeration would be one thing, many do that, this guy out and out lied.

Usually more is demanded from someone running for president.

 

[dilloduck]

:scratch: Exaggeration would be one thing, many do that, this guy out and out lied.

Usually more is demanded from someone running for president.

The operative word being "usually" I assume ? :funnyface

 

[Bonnie]

Christmas in Cambodia????

Just more evidence that you won't see in the mainstream press.
www.townhall.com/columnists/michaelbarone/printmb20040816.shtml

In an article in the Boston Herald in 1979, Kerry wrote: "I remember spending Christmas Eve of 1968 five miles across the Cambodian border being shot at by our South Vietnamese allies who were drunk and celebrating Christmas. The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no Americna troops was very real."

Well, not quite real: Richard Nixon was president-elect, not president, in December 1968. In 1992, Kerry told States News Service: "On Christmas eve 1968, I was on a gunboat in a firefight that wasn't supposed to be taking place. I thought, "if I'm killed here, what will my family be told?" that same year he told The Associated Press, "We were told,'Just go up there and do your patrol.' Everybody was there (in Cambodia). Nobody thought twice about it."


Seems Kerry is very good at his little story telling, likes to add a bit of drama

 

[Bonnie]

The operative word being "usually" I assume ? :funnyface

The unfortunate thing about this is I think you could put CoCo the Guerilla to run on the Dem ticket and he would still be considered a viable option. I look at Kerry and to me he is a complete joke as a candidate, and what's more absurd is the serious credence journalists give him.

 

[dilloduck]

The unfortunate thing about this is I think you could put CoCo the Guerilla to run on the Dem ticket and he would still be considered a viable option. I look at Kerry and to me he is a complete joke as a candidate, and what's more absurd is the serious credence journalists give him.

So true--one would think that a few of them would take some pride in thier work