Surprise! Leftist minimum wage policy backfires in Seattle suburb

[eflatminor]

In order to look in to it I would need in depth reports on the financial health of the area concerned broken down in to regions...

Horse hockey. You can, if you choose, discuss the concept of a central price controls, in this case, the price of labor, without such reports and without focusing on a specific region. If you're for a minimum wage, state so and why. We've clearly stated the case against it using logic and reason, including specific examples.

 

[Manchester]

In order to look in to it I would need in depth reports on the financial health of the area concerned broken down in to regions...

Horse hockey. You can, if you choose, discuss the concept of a central price controls, in this case, the price of labor, without such reports and without focusing on a specific region. If you're for a minimum wage, state so and why. We've clearly stated the case against it using logic and reason, including specific examples.

Oh if you want to debate the ethics of a minimum wage that is entirely different, i thought we were talking about the specifics of that THAT minimum wage. A minimum wage is in my eyes totally ethical provided that it mantains a balance between protecting a workforce from exploitation and seriously impacting on the performance on the companies that pay it to their staff. At the end of the day all a business is is it's employees, stock and facilities. Any lower and it doesn't do it's job properly and any higher and it hamstrings the economy it is applied in.

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't know if the minimum wage raise is good or bad, I understand both sides of the argument probably better than most as I have a bachelors degree in business...

But how many years operating a business? That's the degree that counts.

 

[eflatminor]

In order to look in to it I would need in depth reports on the financial health of the area concerned broken down in to regions...

Horse hockey. You can, if you choose, discuss the concept of a central price controls, in this case, the price of labor, without such reports and without focusing on a specific region. If you're for a minimum wage, state so and why. We've clearly stated the case against it using logic and reason, including specific examples.

Oh if you want to debate the ethics of a minimum wage that is entirely different, i thought we were talking about the specifics of that THAT minimum wage. A minimum wage is in my eyes totally ethical provided that it mantains a balance between protecting a workforce from exploitation and seriously impacting on the performance on the companies that pay it to their staff. At the end of the day all a business is is it's employees, stock and facilities. Any lower and it doesn't do it's job properly and any higher and it hamstrings the economy it is applied in.

From that we can clearly see you have little respect for the concept of private property and voluntary choice, but I will ask you specifically, how do you reconcile the fact that an imposition of ANY minimum wage tends to:
1) Prevent the most vulnerable citizens whose skills/experience/intelligence do not warrant that wage from working at all;
2) Increase retail prices for the items most consumed by poor people;
3) Limit job opportunities as the increased cost of doing business makes outsourcing and labor-replacing technology more and more likely; and
4) Restrict benefits and perks to minimum wage workers, as was demonstrated in the OP's example?

These a real consequences to central price controls of labor at any level, which I find unacceptably cruel...downright inhumane. Why do you find them acceptable? Why do you think you should determine what a man is willing to work for?

 

[blastoff]

Oh, c'mon! All the city government is doing is interferring in the free market. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Disir]

The ramblings of a Libertopian Shillin' Think Tank.

I spoke to these two people at the local bar and grill and they said..........zomg it has created mass problems.

 

[RoadVirus]

Liberals are too stupid to realize the economic consequences of jacking up the minimum wage.

 

[hadit]

In order to look in to it I would need in depth reports on the financial health of the area concerned broken down in to regions...

Horse hockey. You can, if you choose, discuss the concept of a central price controls, in this case, the price of labor, without such reports and without focusing on a specific region. If you're for a minimum wage, state so and why. We've clearly stated the case against it using logic and reason, including specific examples.

Oh if you want to debate the ethics of a minimum wage that is entirely different, i thought we were talking about the specifics of that THAT minimum wage. A minimum wage is in my eyes totally ethical provided that it mantains a balance between protecting a workforce from exploitation and seriously impacting on the performance on the companies that pay it to their staff. At the end of the day all a business is is it's employees, stock and facilities. Any lower and it doesn't do it's job properly and any higher and it hamstrings the economy it is applied in.

That would imply that the MW should flucuate with the economy, rising during economic booms and falling during retractions. That won't ever happen, because "living wage" advocates don't really mean "living wage", they only mean "more".

 

[Manchester]

I don't know if the minimum wage raise is good or bad, I understand both sides of the argument probably better than most as I have a bachelors degree in business...

But how many years operating a business? That's the degree that counts.

And there lies the problem in your thinking. It's not the years operating a business counts, not in the slightest. A man operating a buisiness knows just one thing, his business. He doesn't know the entire economy, he doesn't know how interest rates should move, he doesn't know anything other than what surrounds him and only looks out for his own interests. Running a business means looking out for number one, a position that makes someone less and less suitable for public office or high level regulatory decision making.

 

[jon_berzerk]

If I was an older worker making say round $20-$25 dollars an hour I would be pissed, and I would be demanding a raise.

as you should as the unions would do as well

that is one of the reasons unions support

minimum wage hikes

cause they can go into negoations and say well

this is what the minimum wage is we NEED A RAISE

--LOL

no matter what number the minimum wage is

it will always be the lowest wage paid

everything else adjusts accordingly

 

[Iceweasel]

I don't know if the minimum wage raise is good or bad, I understand both sides of the argument probably better than most as I have a bachelors degree in business...

But how many years operating a business? That's the degree that counts.

And there lies the problem in your thinking. It's not the years operating a business counts, not in the slightest. A man operating a buisiness knows just one thing, his business. He doesn't know the entire economy, he doesn't know how interest rates should move, he doesn't know anything other than what surrounds him and only looks out for his own interests. Running a business means looking out for number one, a position that makes someone less and less suitable for public office or high level regulatory decision making.

You're full of shit. Anyone successful in business knows he cannot just look out for number one and survive. He has to look out for his customers, employees, suppliers and anyone associated with the business. It's a juggling act not a kingdom. I could spot the fact that you have book learning but zero practical experience. While you might draw pretty graphs you could run a hot dog stand. Take your Econ101 bullshit elsewhere.

 

[JFK_USA]

IMO, the worst thing about imposing a minimum wage is the not the withdraw of benefits and perks, or the lessening of tips, for existing workers but the increasing number of people that prevented from working at all. Imposing a minimum wage is most harmful to the most vulnerable citizens in our society:

• Young people with no experience
• Unintelligent people whose skills and abilities do not warrant the minimum wage but are perfectly capable of holding a job
• Uneducated individuals that are not considered for minimum wage employment when competing against those with a high school diploma
• Individuals with substance abuse or mental issues that are prevented from legally engaging in cash-for-labor odd jobs or simple tasks for which a business owner may be willing to pay, but is prevented from doing so by minimum wage laws
• The elderly who may be living off a pension but are simply hoping to engage in a workplace

These kind of people, the individuals that are our MOST VULNERABLE citizens, are prevented from working AT ALL by minimum wage laws. That, IMO, is a mind-numbingly cruel thing to do.

Anyone that supports minimum wage laws has the lost lives of these poor souls on the them. Shame!

If businesses weren't required to pay a certain wage, they wouldn't pay one. Sorry but hoping businesses do the right thing has never worked. You have to have some protections and rights for the worker.

 

[Manchester]

But how many years operating a business? That's the degree that counts.

And there lies the problem in your thinking. It's not the years operating a business counts, not in the slightest. A man operating a buisiness knows just one thing, his business. He doesn't know the entire economy, he doesn't know how interest rates should move, he doesn't know anything other than what surrounds him and only looks out for his own interests. Running a business means looking out for number one, a position that makes someone less and less suitable for public office or high level regulatory decision making.

You're full of shit. Anyone successful in business knows he cannot just look out for number one and survive. He has to look out for his customers, employees, suppliers and anyone associated with the business. It's a juggling act not a kingdom. I could spot the fact that you have book learning but zero practical experience. While you might draw pretty graphs you could run a hot dog stand. Take your Econ101 bullshit elsewhere.

Way to start a balanced political point, I can tell right away you're a level headed political thinking and not a hot headed asshole from that.

You're spouting proven wrong tired rhectoric for beginners, business owners look after their own interests and you know that; that is what being a business is. You make money and **** ethics, staff can always be replaced and customers do not need looking after, they need keeping happy so that they return. That is all.

Business is the actual act of trying to get one over on everybody else and it is the government's to stop you from damaging society as you do it. It is really that simple, business by it's very nature is amoral and anyone who claims different is either a liar or has such a detatched from reality, 1950's mom and pop middle america white picket fence and apple pie view of Al's Dinner type businesses that they have no relavence in the modern world.

 

[Iceweasel]

Way to start a balanced political point, I can tell right away you're a level headed political thinking and not a hot headed asshole from that.

The asshole is the guy that knows more about business because he sat on his ass in classrooms.

You're spouting proven wrong tired rhectoric for beginners, business owners look after their own interests and you know that; that is what being a business is. You make money and **** ethics, staff can always be replaced and customers do not need looking after, they need keeping happy so that they return. That is all.

Yep. Saw it coming a mile off. Capitalism is evil.

Business is the actual act of trying to get one over on everybody else and it is the government's to stop you from damaging society as you do it. It is really that simple, business by it's very nature is amoral and anyone who claims different is either a liar or has such a detatched from reality, 1950's mom and pop middle america white picket fence and apple pie view of Al's Dinner type businesses that they have no relavence in the modern world.

LOL.

 

[eflatminor]

IMO, the worst thing about imposing a minimum wage is the not the withdraw of benefits and perks, or the lessening of tips, for existing workers but the increasing number of people that prevented from working at all. Imposing a minimum wage is most harmful to the most vulnerable citizens in our society:

• Young people with no experience
• Unintelligent people whose skills and abilities do not warrant the minimum wage but are perfectly capable of holding a job
• Uneducated individuals that are not considered for minimum wage employment when competing against those with a high school diploma
• Individuals with substance abuse or mental issues that are prevented from legally engaging in cash-for-labor odd jobs or simple tasks for which a business owner may be willing to pay, but is prevented from doing so by minimum wage laws
• The elderly who may be living off a pension but are simply hoping to engage in a workplace

These kind of people, the individuals that are our MOST VULNERABLE citizens, are prevented from working AT ALL by minimum wage laws. That, IMO, is a mind-numbingly cruel thing to do.

Anyone that supports minimum wage laws has the lost lives of these poor souls on the them. Shame!

If businesses weren't required to pay a certain wage, they wouldn't pay one.

If that were true, then why is it that only 1.1% of the workforce makes minimum wage? That's right, businesses voluntarily pay ABOVE the minimum wage for 98.9% of employees.

Sorry, but the truth does not support your assumption here.

Sorry but hoping businesses do the right thing has never worked. You have to have some protections and rights for the worker.

And that's the problem...your meddling in the price of labor has not protected, but DEVASTATED the outlook for our most vulnerable workers.

You avoided the question I've been asking minimum wage advocates for years, so I will ask again, directly, how do you reconcile the fact that an imposition of a minimum wage tends to:
1) Prevent the most vulnerable citizens whose skills/experience/intelligence do not warrant that wage from working at all;
2) Increase retail prices for the items most consumed by poor people;
3) Limit job opportunities as the increased cost of doing business makes outsourcing and labor-replacing technology more and more likely; and
4) Restrict benefits and perks to minimum wage workers, as was demonstrated in the OP's example?

Please, square these consequences of a minimum wage with your advocating worker's rights.

 

[Manchester]

Way to start a balanced political point, I can tell right away you're a level headed political thinking and not a hot headed asshole from that.

The asshole is the guy that knows more about business because he sat on his ass in classrooms.

You're spouting proven wrong tired rhectoric for beginners, business owners look after their own interests and you know that; that is what being a business is. You make money and **** ethics, staff can always be replaced and customers do not need looking after, they need keeping happy so that they return. That is all.

Yep. Saw it coming a mile off. Capitalism is evil.

Business is the actual act of trying to get one over on everybody else and it is the government's to stop you from damaging society as you do it. It is really that simple, business by it's very nature is amoral and anyone who claims different is either a liar or has such a detatched from reality, 1950's mom and pop middle america white picket fence and apple pie view of Al's Dinner type businesses that they have no relavence in the modern world.

LOL.

I didn't say capitalism was evil, you want me to have said that to make your simplistic views fit but I didn't. Capitalism is far from evil, it's a flawed system but the least flawed one that works and so the best we have. It does require the political will of the people to be enacted to stop abuses though, something that some people fail to get their heads round.

I do find it funny how the stupid always denegrate academia because they were never clever enough to be anything but humiliated when they tried it.

 

[hazlnut]

So, don't go to that one hotel if you don't like their business practices.

A cheap-ass third rate hotel treats their employees like shit -- and you think this is a "backfire".

You are cock ******* stupid.

 

[FJO]

No surprise this happened in the city that dumped the most vile AND most expensive slop on the unsuspecting world.

 

[Iceweasel]

Way to start a balanced political point, I can tell right away you're a level headed political thinking and not a hot headed asshole from that.

The asshole is the guy that knows more about business because he sat on his ass in classrooms.
Yep. Saw it coming a mile off. Capitalism is evil.

Business is the actual act of trying to get one over on everybody else and it is the government's to stop you from damaging society as you do it. It is really that simple, business by it's very nature is amoral and anyone who claims different is either a liar or has such a detatched from reality, 1950's mom and pop middle america white picket fence and apple pie view of Al's Dinner type businesses that they have no relavence in the modern world.

LOL.

I didn't say capitalism was evil, you want me to have said that to make your simplistic views fit but I didn't.

Yes you did. "Business is the actual act of trying to get one over on everybody else and it is the government's to stop you from damaging society". The government doesn't need me to stop damaging society or getting over on people. You socialist professor was a propagandizer.

Capitalism is far from evil, it's a flawed system but the least flawed one that works and so the best we have. It does require the political will of the people to be enacted to stop abuses though, something that some people fail to get their heads round.

I do find it funny how the stupid always denegrate academia because they were never clever enough to be anything but humiliated when they tried it.

LOL again asshole. I graduated college and have been in business for 27.5 years so far. I denigrate (learn to spell if you are going to lecture us on academia) those that are experts on a field based on classroom time.

 

[JFK_USA]

Liberals are too stupid to realize the economic consequences of jacking up the minimum wage.

And conservatives are too stupid to understand the consequences of no minimum wage. See I can do it too. Its not very nice. Moving on

Take a look at Mexico. If you are poor, the minimum wage there is $0.66 per hour. This makes people live under highways and shanties. So then these cartels in their nice cars and houses recruits kids in the area because these kids have nothing and you give them a way out, then you have the cartel problem in Mexico.

Now in America, we have a gang problem because of the same issues as Mexico. Kids in disenfranchised areas see gang banging as a way out of the hood and will kill others just to make the money necessary to provide for their families.

Having no minimum wage gives all the power to employers. They can hold out for as long as need to get the worker at the wage they want. A person will take it to have something. Thus driving down wages for everyone.

The minimum wage in this country should be an hourly rate for a 30 hour work week at the federal poverty level and it goes up or down depending on the cost of living.