~Suicide~

[Againsheila]

I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.

 

[Grace]

I had a tenant who loved her dog very much. But I had had enough and told her how selfish she was and obviously she didn't love her dog ENOUGH. Why would I say that? Because the dog had cancer and was dying. Instead of putting it out of it's very vocal misery, everyone in the complex were blessed to hear the yelps and groans and whines of this poor old dog and her crying and trying to soothe it and how much she couldn't bear to lose her best friend. That dog suffered and suffered HARD. After a few days of me trying to give help to her AND the dog, I had enough. I got pissed. I couldn't stand hearing it, seeing Meekan (the dog's name) look at me with pleading eyes. One day was especially bad. So I lit in to her SELFISH SELFISH owner and called her a torturer, a loser, and a chickenshit and no friend to any animal that begged for relief. Then I went home and cried for them both. That afternoon, she took Meekan to the vet and had her put down. A few days later, she came over and thanked me. I was still very angry with her but didn't show it.

Sometimes wanting people to stay (I'm talking terminally ill people that only find relief doped up on meds IF the meds even fucking work) because YOU can't bear it they don't hang around and suffer just to keep YOU from feeling sad is the most extreme, selfish thing anyone can do.

Just another path to muse on in this subject of which shoe to put on when it comes to selfishness.

 

[mudwhistle]

You know.........there are several verses in the Bible that deal with suicide.

Incidentally, none of the verses are against it. If you really need to have a mulligan, Father will let you do so, just don't take anyone else out with you.

Dude.......you see things through your own prism.

Suicide is a result of depression which is Satan's realm.

Christians are not allowed to commit suicide for the following reasons:

1 Corinthians 10:31 reveal that the Holy Spirit dwells in those who are saved. It is our responsibility to treat Him with respect, and suicide is not appropriate.
Genesis 1:26,27 (and similar verses) reveal that we are made in the image of God. This is one of the reasons we are not allowed to murder (see Genesis 9:6,7), so again suicide would be a bad thing.
The Bible teaches us to trust, depend on, and believe in God throughout its length. (Romans 8:28 is one example.) To take your own life would show no faith in God. Notice that although the prophets, apostles, and Jesus Christ were persecuted, tortured, and put to death; they did not commit suicide for an “easy out.” They “fought the good fight” to the end (see 2 Timothy 4:6-8).
Be aware of how suicide affects other people’s opinion of the person who died. It is common for people to wonder if someone who commits suicide went to heaven. (That is the reason for this page—get it?) That is a poor testimony for a “Christian warrior.”

What the Bible Says About Suicide

Another reason Christians aren't allowed to kill themselves is because your body is a temple for the Holy Spirit. If you mistreat it in any manner you're showing a lack of respect for it. And that includes the use of alcohol, tobacco, or putting poisons of any kind into it.

For those who aren't Christian one only has to read the Ten Commandments. Thou Shalt Not Kill. That means you shouldn't kill yourself.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.

It doesn't mean you can't kill in self-defense. It's specifically not permitted to commit murder.

Suicide is murder. So is abortion.

 

[mudwhistle]

I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.

No....but I did want to rip someone's head off and shit down their neck.

When I left the military I came about as close to it as I've ever been. You feel worthless. But then that soon passes.

Every time I look from a high place I wonder what it would be like to jump. Then again I've mountain-climbed and would hate to fall. It's weird.

 

[geauxtohell]

I think everyone who has ever been in high-school has contemplated suicide at one time or another.

No....but I did want to rip someone's head off and shit down their neck.

When I left the military I came about as close to it as I've ever been. You feel worthless. But then that soon passes.

Every time I look from high place I wonder what it would be like to jump. Then again I've mountain-climbed and would hate to fall. It's weird.

That's true. I was only in the military for four years and left with a definitive plan that I was actively engaged in when I left the uniform and I still felt relatively listless for about a year or so.

My boss actually helped me with it before I left. He pulled me aside and said: "I wish you were staying, but remember this: this decision that you've made is the right one purely on the basis that it is the decision that you have made. Don't be one of those people that spends the rest of their life looking back over your shoulder."

I didn't realize at the time how good that advice was. At any rate, it's funny how the military does that to you. Even the most non-motivated soldiers lose their sense of purpose when they leave.

 

[mudwhistle]

On a lighter note

As to my days in highschool

 

[Zoom-boing]

A friend of mine's uncle killed himself with a bullet to the head. Her father (his brother) hanged himself in the garage. They suffered from depression and/or schizophrenia. She never talked about it so I don't know which. Very sad.

 

[Bones]

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time. For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time. For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.

I have permanent life long depression and I tell you now suicide is WRONG. It is never justified.

 

[uscitizen]

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time. For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.

I have permanent life long depression and I tell you now suicide is WRONG. It is never justified.

Never?
I am terminal and have extreme pain which so far I can keep in reasonable check with opiates, very large doses.

Is life worth living when ones time is proven to be short and one must endure the end in extreme agony?

Speak for yourself fella, why do you think you can speak for everyone else?
That is freedom and liberty?

When the pain becomes unmanageable I will die of an "accidental overdose" which will be much easier on all my friends and relatives than watching me suffer extreme unmanageable pain.

The ones that understand know my plans and endorse them. Some would not understand I they must be let to believe that is was accidental.

 

[Montrovant]

Have you ever contemplated suicide??
Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??

Often.
No. Hopefully, if/when the day comes I decide to kill myself, I will be able to get it done.
Not that I'm aware of.

For many years I have considered suicide the likely way for my life to end. The thing that has changed as time goes on is the timing of it.

In my teen years I was put in a psychiatric hospital for a while and, while there, diagnosed as chronically depressed (or some similar wording, it was a long time ago ). While I certainly was depressed a decent amount of the time at that point of my life, I've never put much store in that diagnosis. I was a depressed teenager; not an unusual creature, that! Now I am much less often depressed, I am calmer, but I still expect that I will one day kill myself. In part that is because I have never been great at life; I cannot remember a time when I looked to the future with much hope. On the other hand, I may live a long life and simply find a point where life is too painful to continue. Age and disease can often lead people to a point I would not be willing to live through.

 

[Dabs]

Have you ever contemplated suicide??
Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??

Often.
No. Hopefully, if/when the day comes I decide to kill myself, I will be able to get it done.
Not that I'm aware of.

For many years I have considered suicide the likely way for my life to end. The thing that has changed as time goes on is the timing of it.

In my teen years I was put in a psychiatric hospital for a while and, while there, diagnosed as chronically depressed (or some similar wording, it was a long time ago ). While I certainly was depressed a decent amount of the time at that point of my life, I've never put much store in that diagnosis. I was a depressed teenager; not an unusual creature, that! Now I am much less often depressed, I am calmer, but I still expect that I will one day kill myself. In part that is because I have never been great at life; I cannot remember a time when I looked to the future with much hope. On the other hand, I may live a long life and simply find a point where life is too painful to continue. Age and disease can often lead people to a point I would not be willing to live through.

Oh goodness, please PLEASE talk to someone, even if it's me! Yes, I will talk to you!!
I know the feeling of no hope for the future.....I know the feeling of what's the use, because it's not going to get any better......please talk to someone.

 

[Montrovant]

Have you ever contemplated suicide??
Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??

Often.
No. Hopefully, if/when the day comes I decide to kill myself, I will be able to get it done.
Not that I'm aware of.

For many years I have considered suicide the likely way for my life to end. The thing that has changed as time goes on is the timing of it.

In my teen years I was put in a psychiatric hospital for a while and, while there, diagnosed as chronically depressed (or some similar wording, it was a long time ago ). While I certainly was depressed a decent amount of the time at that point of my life, I've never put much store in that diagnosis. I was a depressed teenager; not an unusual creature, that! Now I am much less often depressed, I am calmer, but I still expect that I will one day kill myself. In part that is because I have never been great at life; I cannot remember a time when I looked to the future with much hope. On the other hand, I may live a long life and simply find a point where life is too painful to continue. Age and disease can often lead people to a point I would not be willing to live through.

Oh goodness, please PLEASE talk to someone, even if it's me! Yes, I will talk to you!!
I know the feeling of no hope for the future.....I know the feeling of what's the use, because it's not going to get any better......please talk to someone.

Don't take that the wrong way! I'm not saying I'll be killing myself tomorrow, or that I'm depressed because of hopelessness. There are just things in my life now that will inevitably change or end and I don't know what I'll do with myself when they do. It will be years in the future, and mostly an issue of how prepared I am. For now I'm content.

But thank you for wanting to help!

 

[Grace]

Have you ever contemplated suicide??
Have you ever tried and someone rescued you??..or maybe you decided against it at the very last moment??
Do you know anyone who has committed suicide??

Often.
No. Hopefully, if/when the day comes I decide to kill myself, I will be able to get it done.
Not that I'm aware of.

For many years I have considered suicide the likely way for my life to end. The thing that has changed as time goes on is the timing of it.

In my teen years I was put in a psychiatric hospital for a while and, while there, diagnosed as chronically depressed (or some similar wording, it was a long time ago ). While I certainly was depressed a decent amount of the time at that point of my life, I've never put much store in that diagnosis. I was a depressed teenager; not an unusual creature, that! Now I am much less often depressed, I am calmer, but I still expect that I will one day kill myself. In part that is because I have never been great at life; I cannot remember a time when I looked to the future with much hope. On the other hand, I may live a long life and simply find a point where life is too painful to continue. Age and disease can often lead people to a point I would not be willing to live through.

I get what you are saying Montrovant. Perfectly. You just described me and my own thoughts. Especially the bold parts.

 

[Grace]

I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

There's two components.

One is that suicide is unbelievably cruel and selfish because of the unbearable pain to those left behind. Most especially when it is done at home or near where your loved ones are. They will spend years grieving, second guessing themselves, blaming themselves, reliving it and trying to figure out how it could have been prevented, etc. Sometimes that is the intent of the suicide making it even worse. Usually however, the person is so self centered they don't consider what they're doing to others.

The second is what you describe: a person in so much fear, physical pain, or mental torment that death is the only escape or relief that they see. And, as you say, most who fail in the attempt or who are stopped by others are usually later grateful that they still have life. I don't think it is cowardice to choose to kill oneself, however, For me, that would require a lot of courage.

I can't say that I have ever seriously considered suicide. I have had instances in which I was convinced I had some terrible illness and chose to just let nature take its course rather than deal with doctors, hospitals, etc. Is that the same thing? I don't know. (Fortunately, my diagnosis was wrong in those instances.)

True - one who commits suicide is focused on oneself. But are we not also, if we're left behind? Asking what WE did wrong, how WE miss them, etc.? Now, I'm not saying you're wrong - merely playing devil's advocate.

As humans, we are selfish, self-centered creatures. Death is just one more example. It is much harder for those left behind to be ok with the death than it is for someone to die.

My friend who attempted suicide would have left behind a young wife and two young children. I begged him to consider what their lives would be like without him. He asserted that they would be better off without him.

It's very difficult to reason with someone in that state of mind. Fortunately, some are able to get through.

In the above case you restrain them yourself or you call someone that will. In most States if one has communicated the desire to commit suicide authorities can step in.

When one is depressed enough one can not properly reason. Your mind no longer works like it should you are unable to reason out much of anything except to stop hurting. And that is no time to kill ones self.

I have long term continuous depression mostly major depression. I take max dose of 2 different medications to help with it and right now it barely works. Even as much as I want to be dead I know it is the wrong thing to do. I have a wife and 2 grown children. My depression is most likely some kind of genetic problem as both my children have problems. If I kill myself I am telling them it is ok to do as well as leaving them with the ache of thinking they could have prevented it somehow.

When I get so bad I can not control the thoughts I admit myself to the Hospital. I haven't been to the hospital in about 10 years now but for about 6 years I was in the hospital 2 to 3 times a year. I no longer work which helps some and we found some meds that sort of work.

Suicide is NEVER the answer. No matter how one justifies it. And I assure you the vast majority of people commit suicide while ill, unable to reason out what they are doing. When they are of sound mind they do not kill themselves.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

"Permanent solution to a temporary problem" only applies some of the time. For those with clinical, lifelong depression the above platitude doesn't ring true nor does it ring true for those suffering from terminal illnesses or persistent friendlessness.

I have permanent life long depression and I tell you now suicide is WRONG. It is never justified.

Never?
I am terminal and have extreme pain which so far I can keep in reasonable check with opiates, very large doses.

Is life worth living when ones time is proven to be short and one must endure the end in extreme agony?

Speak for yourself fella, why do you think you can speak for everyone else?
That is freedom and liberty?

When the pain becomes unmanageable I will die of an "accidental overdose" which will be much easier on all my friends and relatives than watching me suffer extreme unmanageable pain.

The ones that understand know my plans and endorse them. Some would not understand I they must be let to believe that is was accidental.

I vehemently disagree with your opinion. If you are terminal and face that prospect then you need to ( while still sane enough with out the pain) discuss your desires with your family. If they can not handle an informed opinion based on medical facts then they are the selfish ones and you have done what was needed. I disagree that suicide is a viable option.

 

[mudwhistle]

I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.

This subject is nothing to laugh at.

 

[sparky]

I vehemently disagree with your opinion. If you are terminal and face that prospect then you need to ( while still sane enough with out the pain) discuss your desires with your family. If they can not handle an informed opinion based on medical facts then they are the selfish ones and you have done what was needed. I disagree that suicide is a viable option.

and what if you desire to leave them something, instead of having everything asset you own liquidated to pay for a terminal illness, which statistically rises in $$$ exponetially in the last six months Sarge?

consider the medicare spendown here, people loose their homes to it.

Two poignant anecdotals that i can recall>

1) Gramps is terminal, Granny's got alhemerz & in a wheelchair for various other ills, the gov is going to take the farm to pay for his $$$

Gramps knew it would end up with his bride in the fossile home

so Gramps goes upstairs (where wheelchairs can't) , calls 911 and asks for a rig sent, then eats a .38

was suicide the economically correct avenue?


2) The old hunter, terminal, what is often coined a 'train wreck' , descriptive of multiple ills, on a cornucopia of expensive pharamcuticals (talking $5K a month isn't uncommon) just to stay alive

The old duffer decides to climb a mountain, and is found resting with his back against a tree, gun across his knees, eyes open to the vast valley below him

I'm guessing he knew physical excersion would do him in, all he needed to do was can the meds for a few days, and presto

so.....was it suicide?

you know how those insurance agencies can be when they sniff that out, right?

~S~

 

[Grace]

I would also like to thank those who allowed this conversation to take place without making those of us who think like we do, feel ostracized. Or made fun of. Or urged to just DO IT. Or laughed at. The place I came from, this subject was taboo and it was not something anyone discussed or was allowed to discuss without much ridicule. Just knowing we can talk about it and not be picked on feels...peaceful in unpeaceful minds.

This subject is nothing to laugh at.

I agree. But it was not a subject one could discuss freely at the other place I posted at for years. One was made fun of, or urged to just do it and the person was ridiculed or called names or pics posted of poison or a bullet or whatever. It was fun time for some warped people. I had a good friend who was suffering. I didn't know. Nor did everyone else. She hung herself in her closet. Nobody laughed then. Prior to that? It was all a game.
I wasn't sure about the topic here, and did start a thread about it awhile back but I kinda fibbed and said it was a discussion I was having with someone. I was testing the waters, so to speak. But I was too afraid to say more, or be truthful. Then Dabs started this thread and maybe because Dabs is a friend did I feel comfortable enough to keep talking about it. And reading other comments as well and how the subject was received.
Who knows. Some lives maybe have been saved just by the people here reacting the way they have. Maybe not. At least we..those of us contemplating...are not alone. And nothing worse is than to feel alone and too afraid to discuss it.

Like Montrovant said..I don't plan to off myself any time soon. But I know that when the timing is right..whenever that is...I will use my option.