Suicide Bomb Teams Sent to U.S.

[RetiredGySgt]

for that matter:

Provide us with some certification, some documentation that you are some how a retired marine corps gunny sergeant and not some pimply faced high school kid.

This doesn't even have any bearing on the discussion at all. For one, I never have claimed that my Military background gives me any special insight or opinion on the issue of Muslims or Iraq.

You on the other hand have insisted your status as an Officer and a member of UN Commands does, so YOU provide US with proof. Or you can retract this personal insult, I won't even ask for an apology.

 

[maineman]

This doesn't even have any bearing on the discussion at all. For one, I never have claimed that my Military background gives me any special insight or opinion on the issue of Muslims or Iraq.

You on the other hand have insisted your status as an Officer and a member of UN Commands does, so YOU provide US with proof. Or you can retract this personal insult, I won't even ask for an apology.

does your military background give you any special insight as to marines? would your service at a particular marine corps installation give you any special insight as to the peculiarities of that installation or that area?

I posted, as you requested, a brief vignette concerning my experiences in the middle east. Are you suggesting that if YOU were to have lived there and done what I did for the period of time that I did it, that YOU would not have developed any special insight or opinions on the issue of muslims?

 

[maineman]

or are you all but calling me a pimply faced teenager masquerading as an officer?

If you want any credibility as a "retired gunny sergeant" and you want to claim that such credibility extends to the specific nature of your service as a gunny sergeant in the marine corps as opposed to some other branch of service, then you need to grant that same level of credibility to me.

There are a wealth of things related to the marine corps that I willingly acknowledge your superior knowledge in...and I would defer to you in all of those areas.

On the other hand, I know more about driving ships than you do. I know more about anti-submarine warfare than you do. I know about man overboard drills than you do. I know more about ship's stability and damage control than you do. AND I know more about the middle east than you do.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

or are you all but calling me a pimply faced teenager masquerading as an officer?

If you want any credibility as a "retired gunny sergeant" and you want to claim that such credibility extends to the specific nature of your service as a gunny sergeant in the marine corps as opposed to some other branch of service, then you need to grant that same level of credibility to me.

There are a wealth of things related to the marine corps that I willingly acknowledge your superior knowledge in...and I would defer to you in all of those areas.

On the other hand, I know more about driving ships than you do. I know more about anti-submarine warfare than you do. I know about man overboard drills than you do. I know more about ship's stability and damage control than you do. AND I know more about the middle east than you do.

Lets see if I have this right? In true liberal fashion, you make a claim I may be nothing more than a liar and that I SHOULD provide proof I am not, THEN when replied to with the same request that YOU prove your what YOU claim , I am wrong and should be ashamed of myself?

Your a pompous ASS. I have defended your sorry ass more than once from people attacking your service. I have acknowledged you are an officer and THAT you served in UN Commands, with NO proof. And now YOUR going to insinuate I have done none of these things? Your going to try and pretend YOU didn't INSULT me and twist it into me doing the insulting.

I do not normal stoop to this, BUT FUCK YOU. Yes I know it shows a lack of tact and I have chastized others for it, but your BLATANT hypocracy is really starting to PISS me off. You have 2 choices ASSHOLE, one is to continue to play your crap and the other is to apologize for your shit. Do surprise me and do the one I suspect you won't.

Once again just to be clear , of the two of us the one that has shown respect, the one that has acknowledge service, the one that has defend the other would be ME. While your to busy playing word games and trying to pretend you didn't call me a LIAR.

 

[Larkinn]

Yes I know it shows a lack of tact and I have chastized others for it, but your BLATANT hypocracy is really starting to PISS me off

Somehow I doubt your own admitted hypocrisy bothers you nearly as much.

 

[maineman]

Now if you were a Naval officer that had spent a lot of time with marines, I would assume you were pretty good on customs as well.

odd. If I had spent time with marines, you would assume I would know what the fuck I am talking about. But if I spend time with Muslims, I am still an uninformed layman who has no more knowledge than someone who has spent NO time living amongst them.

yeah...that makes sense.

And if you go back to the genesis of this little argument....you asked me if I had ever spent any time with Arabs....I answered that I had and explained how, even though I was technically a member of the US Armed Forces, I had lived right smack dab in the middle of muslim neighborhoods with ZERO protection or cover from any US or UN forces.

And you denigrated that.

And then you suggested that, if I were to be believed as anything other than a layman with zero experience regarding Muslims and Arabs, that I needed to provide documentation. I sarcastically suggested that maybe you needed to provide documentation as well, gunny.

Please give me the quote where I ever called you a liar and I will either explain it or apologize for it.

I am not suggesting that you are a liar...I am suggesting that you are a bullheaded obstinate man....I am suggesting that your continued assertions that your opinions about the middle east are just as valid as mine is just as ridiculous as suggesting that I know as much about YOUR duty stations even though I was never stationed there myself.

If you had been assigned to the embassy detail in Paris and spoke french and were extremely familiar with Paris, France and Frenchmen...and I had never been to Paris or France, wouldn't you think it quite presumptuous of me to claim to know as much about the Montmartre as you?

 

[Superlative]

People like you are why we may lose this war against Islam. You can not fathom the concept that the INTENT of the religion is total world wide control. That everyone will convert or die. In fact there are portions of the Islamic movement that do NOT like terrorists that blow up shit, not because they care about who is dying, but because they had a good thing going immigrating and taking over from within.

RGS: have you ever lived in a muslim country?

[Have YOU ever lived in a Muslim Country as a civilian with no protection of another Government or the military? As a citizen non Muslim?....

.......More specifically there is a MAJOR threat from armed murderous terrorists that want violence to take over NOW.

When I lived in Beirut, I had absolutely ZERO protection from any government and I was on totally detached duty from the US Navy. US Military personnel assigned to the US Embassy lived in gated complexes and were driven everywhere in armored cars with armed guards. On the other hand, as a UN employee, I was not allowed to even carry a weapon. There were never any guards to protect me. I drove a white Passat and lived in a tiny walk up apartment until the building across the street that housed the Iranian news agency was blown up, the debris destroyed most of my apartment and my stuff so I moved to another equally unsafe apartment closer to the harbor for no reason other than it was that much closer to a potential escape route if the city came unglued. In both apartments, I had muslim neighbors. In both apartments, I was nearby muslim shops and markets and schools and clubs.... and I socialized with many many muslims on a frequent and routine basis. To this day, I routinely correspond with several arab friends I made during my time in the middle east.

Now I know you hate to admit it, but given all that, which one of us probably has a better first hand understanding of what the muslim world is like, what their dreams and aspirations are and what their views of the United States are?

I do not recall you answering me if you had ever lived in a muslim country as a civilian with no backing or protection or seperation for being foreign or Un sponsored military.

I guess you missed my rather detailed answer.

Hey RGS:

did you MISS this answer or just decide to ignore it?

When I lived in Beirut, I had absolutely ZERO protection from any government and I was on totally detached duty from the US Navy. US Military personnel assigned to the US Embassy lived in gated complexes and were driven everywhere in armored cars with armed guards. On the other hand, as a UN employee, I was not allowed to even carry a weapon. There were never any guards to protect me. I drove a white Passat and lived in a tiny walk up apartment until the building across the street that housed the Iranian news agency was blown up, the debris destroyed most of my apartment and my stuff so I moved to another equally unsafe apartment closer to the harbor for no reason other than it was that much closer to a potential escape route if the city came unglued. In both apartments, I had muslim neighbors. In both apartments, I was nearby muslim shops and markets and schools and clubs.... and I socialized with many many muslims on a frequent and routine basis. To this day, I routinely correspond with several arab friends I made during my time in the middle east.

Now I know you hate to admit it, but given all that, which one of us probably has a better first hand understanding of what the muslim world is like, what their dreams and aspirations are and what their views of the United States are?

Yup, those peaceful arabs tried to blow you up. Good guys.

You are of course aware that the teachings of Allah specifically forbid Muslims from making non muslim friends? Your "friends" are anything but.

quit tap dancing and just answer the question:

Now I know you hate to admit it, but given all that, which one of us probably has a better first hand understanding of what the muslim world is like, what their dreams and aspirations are and what their views of the United States are?

Your opinion is just that, opinion. And we all know what you think of opinions.

so obviously, SOME retired gunny sergeants somehow lose their balls and can't answer simple questions?

You resort to name calling a lot, usual tactic of the left, you fit right in. I DID answer your question. You don't like the answer? To damn bad.

no you didn't.... you incorrectly dismissed my question by mislabeling it my opinion.

And realize that the question came at the end of a post which answered a previous question of your in great detail which you first claimed I had never answered and then, failed to respond with anything approaching the interest I put into replying.

Your so full of shit your eyes must be brown. Your take on Islam and sunni/shiite is NOTHING more than your opinion. That you claim otherwise is simply amazing.

Prove me wrong. Provide us with some certification, some documentation that you are some how a renowned or even obscure EXPERT , recognized as such, on this particular issue.

My answer stands. My opinion and that of others is JUST as valid as yours.

would you think that my opinions about marine corps operations, procedures and customs were just as valid as yours?

for that matter:

Provide us with some certification, some documentation that you are some how a retired marine corps gunny sergeant and not some pimply faced high school kid.

Maybe not customs, but as a Naval officers I suspect you would have more knowledge of Operations in General and to some extent would be as knowledgable on procedures.

The only reason I would possible believe the customs part is because that is generally Service connected and learned and taught in house. Now if you were a Naval officer that had spent a lot of time with marines, I would assume you were pretty good on customs as well.

This doesn't even have any bearing on the discussion at all. For one, I never have claimed that my Military background gives me any special insight or opinion on the issue of Muslims or Iraq.

You on the other hand have insisted your status as an Officer and a member of UN Commands does, so YOU provide US with proof. Or you can retract this personal insult, I won't even ask for an apology.

does your military background give you any special insight as to marines? would your service at a particular marine corps installation give you any special insight as to the peculiarities of that installation or that area?

I posted, as you requested, a brief vignette concerning my experiences in the middle east. Are you suggesting that if YOU were to have lived there and done what I did for the period of time that I did it, that YOU would not have developed any special insight or opinions on the issue of muslims?

or are you all but calling me a pimply faced teenager masquerading as an officer?

If you want any credibility as a "retired gunny sergeant" and you want to claim that such credibility extends to the specific nature of your service as a gunny sergeant in the marine corps as opposed to some other branch of service, then you need to grant that same level of credibility to me.

There are a wealth of things related to the marine corps that I willingly acknowledge your superior knowledge in...and I would defer to you in all of those areas.

On the other hand, I know more about driving ships than you do. I know more about anti-submarine warfare than you do. I know about man overboard drills than you do. I know more about ship's stability and damage control than you do. AND I know more about the middle east than you do.

Lets see if I have this right? In true liberal fashion, you make a claim I may be nothing more than a liar and that I SHOULD provide proof I am not, THEN when replied to with the same request that YOU prove your what YOU claim , I am wrong and should be ashamed of myself?

Your a pompous ASS. I have defended your sorry ass more than once from people attacking your service. I have acknowledged you are an officer and THAT you served in UN Commands, with NO proof. And now YOUR going to insinuate I have done none of these things? Your going to try and pretend YOU didn't INSULT me and twist it into me doing the insulting.

I do not normal stoop to this, BUT FUCK YOU. Yes I know it shows a lack of tact and I have chastized others for it, but your BLATANT hypocracy is really starting to PISS me off. You have 2 choices ASSHOLE, one is to continue to play your crap and the other is to apologize for your shit. Do surprise me and do the one I suspect you won't.

Once again just to be clear , of the two of us the one that has shown respect, the one that has acknowledge service, the one that has defend the other would be ME. While your to busy playing word games and trying to pretend you didn't call me a LIAR.

This color thing is bullshit. I tried RGS.

Its the fight of the week!!

Who will win??

Stay tuned Folks!!!!

 

[Gunny]

Nobody's going to win because it's OVER for both the primary combatants and the chiming in peanut gallery.

Anyone who wants to "kick some ass" can feel free to use the Taunting Area, but it's over here. I'll lock this thread in a heartbeat.

 

[Annie]

Nobody's going to win because it's OVER for both the primary combatants and the chiming in peanut gallery.

Anyone who wants to "kick some ass" can feel free to use the Taunting Area, but it's over here. I'll lock this thread in a heartbeat.

Might as well, the topic is hopelessly lost.

 

[maineman]

In an effort to bring it back on track, let me simply reassert my opinion that one of the reasons that the Taliban is able to hold a graduation ceremony for 300 suicide bombers in Afghanistan with media coverage is because we are giving Afghanistan the short shrift by having invaded, conquered and continuing to occupy Iraq. It has made those 300 young men even angrier at us than they were before, and it has forced us to have such a minimal relative presence in Afghanistan - where our real enemies have been all along - that those same enemies can conduct a ceremony such as this right under our way too few noses.

But I cannot refrain from at least saying that the synopsis of our little "discussion" was revealing and illustrative and I thank Superlative for taking the time to compile it.

 

[trobinett]

In an effort to bring it back on track, let me simply reassert my opinion that one of the reasons that the Taliban is able to hold a graduation ceremony for 300 suicide bombers in Afghanistan with media coverage is because we are giving Afghanistan the short shrift by having invaded, conquered and continuing to occupy Iraq. It has made those 300 young men even angrier at us than they were before, and it has forced us to have such a minimal relative presence in Afghanistan - where our real enemies have been all along - that those same enemies can conduct a ceremony such as this right under our way too few noses.

But I cannot refrain from at least saying that the synopsis of our little "discussion" was revealing and illustrative and I thank Superlative for taking the time to compile it.

Boy, THAT sure is a fucking news flash!

YOU go right on believing such propaganda mainman, I'm under the impression that it makes you all fuzzy.

 

[maineman]

Boy, THAT sure is a fucking news flash!

YOU go right on believing such propaganda mainman, I'm under the impression that it makes you all fuzzy.

what, pray tell, is "propaganda" in my post? Please be specific.

Did the taliban NOT hold the ceremony in question?

was the ceremony not attended by the local press?

were American forces NOT unaware of it?

 

[Annie]

how about leaving the RSR/MM piss fest that preceded the last? Try #287 and the few that follow, before derailing stops it, again.

 

[maineman]

Front page of Tribune today:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...alopekjun28,1,3542860.story?coll=chi-news-hed

They may or not be Muslim, but today it seems they are inspired by those that are extremists:

I would agree that the Taliban is inspiring radical behavior in far flung places.
They are definitely bad guys and I can remember applauding George Bush when he ordered the invasion of Afghanistan in what I thought would be a concerted effort to completely crush them and the Al Qaeda crowd that they harbored.

silly me.

As a corollary: do socialist secular ba'athists usually inspire such extremist behavior?

 

[Annie]

I would agree that the Taliban is inspiring radical behavior in far flung places.
They are definitely bad guys and I can remember applauding George Bush when he ordered the invasion of Afghanistan in what I thought would be a concerted effort to completely crush them and the Al Qaeda crowd that they harbored.

silly me.

As a corollary: do socialist secular ba'athists usually inspire such extremist behavior?

If I didn't like you, I'd tear your head off! :kablam:

 

[maineman]

If I didn't like you, I'd tear your head off! :kablam:

the truth inspires exasperated violence in Illinois school teachers?

 

[Annie]

the truth inspires exasperated violence in Illinois school teachers?

ARRRGGGG! Not going to go down this path. How about on topic? I don't want to go to the RSR q & non-answer. You already know what I think on your question.

 

[maineman]

ARRRGGGG! Not going to go down this path. How about on topic? I don't want to go to the RSR q & non-answer. You already know what I think on your question.

I remain on topic: I agree that the taliban and AQ are our enemies. I agree that they are bad bad men and we need to stop them before they stop us.

This whole "Saddam violated UN sanctions" and "a multicultural jeffersonian democracy blossoming on the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates will serve as a beacon of freedom that will start a groundswell of peace and goodwill and prosperity in the entire region" is all just bullshit. NONE of the reasons for invading Iraq were anywhere near as pressing as the reasons to concentrate our assets in Afghanistan and completely crush our real enemies.

and as a result. We have so few troops in Afghanistan that our enemies hold graduation ceremonies for suicide bombers in front of television cameras and we are powerless to stop them.

 

[Annie]

I remain on topic: I agree that the taliban and AQ are our enemies. I agree that they are bad bad men and we need to stop them before they stop us.

This whole "Saddam violated UN sanctions" and "a multicultural jeffersonian democracy blossoming on the banks of the Tigris and Euphrates will serve as a beacon of freedom that will start a groundswell of peace and goodwill and prosperity in the entire region" is all just bullshit. NONE of the reasons for invading Iraq were anywhere near as pressing as the reasons to concentrate our assets in Afghanistan and completely crush our real enemies.

and as a result. We have so few troops in Afghanistan that our enemies hold graduation ceremonies for suicide bombers in front of television cameras and we are powerless to stop them.

I'll answer, though you know, then let's get back to spread of terrorism to Africa?

Democracy as Bush envisioned, no. Something better than Saddam, yes. Saddam killed over 2 m. people, even Lancet doesn't make the claim that Iraq war did so much, and their parameters have been discredited long ago. Yes, the Iraqi people are better off now than then.

As for the training of Taliban, I think it's highly questionable if we'd put more forces in Afghanistan if we pulled some out of Iraq. Don't you? In all honesty, seems we are doing what we have to there, at the pace they can deal with. You disagree?

 

[maineman]

"I'll answer, though you know, then let's get back to spread of terrorism to Africa?

Democracy as Bush envisioned, no. Something better than Saddam, yes. Saddam killed over 2 m. people, even Lancet doesn't make the claim that Iraq war did so much, and their parameters have been discredited long ago. Yes, the Iraqi people are better off now than then."

making the lives of Iraqis marginally better is nothing we should be willing to take our eye off the ball to accomplish. It certainly is not worth 28K dead and wounded americans and nearly a trillion dollars flushed down the toilet

"As for the training of Taliban, I think it's highly questionable if we'd put more forces in Afghanistan if we pulled some out of Iraq. Don't you? In all honesty, seems we are doing what we have to there, at the pace they can deal with. You disagree?"

Certainly not in the present climate of public disenchantment that Bush's abject failures in Iraq has spawned. And I say again: if our enemies can conduct a televised graduation ceremony for 300 suicide bombers in broad daylight in a country we purportedly occupy and that occupying force does not have a clue about it nor can react to it, we are NOT doing what we have to do there.