Suffocation to be used in capital punishment

[Blues Man]

I have my issues with the current system of capital punishment in this country.
But that's another topic.

A prisoner in AL is going to be killed by asphyxiation by nitrogen gas. Does that rise to cruel and unusual? It certainly is unusual since gas chambers have been outlawed.

 

[JGalt]

Murder is cruel and unusual, so it doesn't bother me if the punishment fits the crime.

 

[Blues Man]

Murder is cruel and unusual, so it doesn't bother me if the punishment fits the crime.

So why not just torture this guy to death?

 

[JGalt]

So why not just torture this guy to death?

Sure. Can I have the job?

 

[Blues Man]

Sure. Can I have the job?

Do you really think torturing people for a living would be good for you? Or anyone?

 

[JoeB131]

I have my issues with the current system of capital punishment in this country.
But that's another topic.

A prisoner in AL is going to be killed by asphyxiation by nitrogen gas. Does that rise to cruel and unusual? It certainly is unusual since gas chambers have been outlawed.

A couple of points.

Gas Chambers were not made illegal, they simply stopped using them in favor of lethal injection, just like they stopped using Old Sparky and Firing Squads.

Now, lethal injection is a problem because no pharmaceutical company will sell them the drugs, and no doctor will stick the needle in. Something about that Hippocratic Oath.

This method is untested, which should make it suspect, and the man they are trying to kill with it already survived a half-ass attempt to give him the needle.

Now, ALL of that said, the problem with Capital Punishment overall is that it shouldn't be used because governments make mistakes. Cops lie about evidence because they are "sure" the perp is guilty, Prosecutors go with dubious cases because they need to keep a conviction rate up, and public defenders are often overworked and incompetent.

We shouldn't have a punishment that can't be revoked if we don't have a perfect system.

 

[Harry Dresden]

A couple of points.

Gas Chambers were not made illegal, they simply stopped using them in favor of lethal injection, just like they stopped using Old Sparky and Firing Squads.

Now, lethal injection is a problem because no pharmaceutical company will sell them the drugs, and no doctor will stick the needle in. Something about that Hippocratic Oath.

This method is untested, which should make it suspect, and the man they are trying to kill with it already survived a half-ass attempt to give him the needle.

Now, ALL of that said, the problem with Capital Punishment overall is that it shouldn't be used because governments make mistakes. Cops lie about evidence because they are "sure" the perp is guilty, Prosecutors go with dubious cases because they need to keep a conviction rate up, and public defenders are often overworked and incompetent.

We shouldn't have a punishment that can't be revoked if we don't have a perfect system.

i am against capitol punishment unless the person is absolutely without a doubt guilty.....

 

[petro]

No link provided, but in a thread that already started last week about this, that did have a link, it said the prisoner chose this method.

 

[1srelluc]

I prefer the old cold war Soviet method of carrying out a death sentence.

Every morning at count the condemned went to his cell door, turned around, and faced the opposite wall.

A hatch was opened in the door and he was counted.

On execution day (the condemned never knew which day) when he turned he was dispatched by a bullet to the back of the head.

He was left to drain out (each cell had a floor drain) and was then toted away and the cell cleaned.

 

[JoeB131]

i am against capitol punishment unless the person is absolutely without a doubt guilty.....

Awesome. Where is this "without a doubt" guilty you are talking about.

We've executed 20 people who were probably innocent

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

and another 196 have been released from Death Row despite the system being absolutely sure they were guilty.

Description of Innocence Cases

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

The problem with people who are "absolutely guilty" is that their lawyers are usually smart enough to plead them down to a lesser sentence. It's the poor schmuck who thinks that the system works for innocent people who often gets sent to death row.

 

[Blues Man]

Awesome. Where is this "without a doubt" guilty you are talking about.

We've executed 20 people who were probably innocent

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

and another 196 have been released from Death Row despite the system being absolutely sure they were guilty.

Description of Innocence Cases

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

The problem with people who are "absolutely guilty" is that their lawyers are usually smart enough to plead them down to a lesser sentence. It's the poor schmuck who thinks that the system works for innocent people who often gets sent to death row.

It's all about the evidence.

And it is possible to meet the beyond doubt standard

 

[JoeB131]

It's all about the evidence.

And it is possible to meet the beyond doubt standard

215 cases we know of where they were absolutely sure the guy was guilty, and it turned out he wasn't.

My state abolished the death penalty after several high-profile exonerations. One of them involved a case where it was proven that the police and prosecutors framed a man. They kept putting him on trial even after another guy confessed to the crime and DNA proved it was him. when a special prosecutor put the cops and prosecutors on trial, the jury acquitted them and then went out and had drinks with the defendants.

Nope, a systems like ours shouldn't get an ultimate penalty with so many flaws.

 

[Blues Man]

215 cases we know of where they were absolutely sure the guy was guilty, and it turned out he wasn't.

My state abolished the death penalty after several high-profile exonerations. One of them involved a case where it was proven that the police and prosecutors framed a man. They kept putting him on trial even after another guy confessed to the crime and DNA proved it was him. when a special prosecutor put the cops and prosecutors on trial, the jury acquitted them and then went out and had drinks with the defendants.

Nope, a systems like ours shouldn't get an ultimate penalty with so many flaws.

No they were held to the beyond reasonable doubt standard. That is not beyond all doubt

 

[JoeB131]

No they were held to the beyond reasonable doubt standard. That is not beyond all doubt

Given we have one exoneration for every 10 people executed, that's way too high of a fail rate.

We recall products when one in ten thousand fails.

 

[Blues Man]

Given we have one exoneration for every 10 people executed, that's way too high of a fail rate.

We recall products when one in ten thousand fails.

All of those have used the BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT standard.

What do you not understand about that?

 

[JoeB131]

All of those have used the BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT standard.

What do you not understand about that?

They didn't do what they were accused of. 20 were executed anyway, and 196 were exonerated before they could be executed.

"Almost good enough" isn't an answer here.

Sorry.

If you can't tell me with absolute certainty that you won't execute an innocent person by mistake, no executions at all for anyone

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They didn't do what they were accused of. 20 were executed anyway, and 196 were exonerated before they could be executed.

"Almost good enough" isn't an answer here.

Sorry.

If you can't tell me with absolute certainty that you won't execute an innocent person by mistake, no executions at all for anyone

Boo Hoo Hoo criminals were executed, cry me a river. Now list a person executed that wasn't already a criminal that you think was innocent.

 

[westwall]

215 cases we know of where they were absolutely sure the guy was guilty, and it turned out he wasn't.

My state abolished the death penalty after several high-profile exonerations. One of them involved a case where it was proven that the police and prosecutors framed a man. They kept putting him on trial even after another guy confessed to the crime and DNA proved it was him. when a special prosecutor put the cops and prosecutors on trial, the jury acquitted them and then went out and had drinks with the defendants.

Nope, a systems like ours shouldn't get an ultimate penalty with so many flaws.

Jeff dahmer.

 

[JoeB131]

Boo Hoo Hoo criminals were executed, cry me a river. Now list a person executed that wasn't already a criminal that you think was innocent.

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

After examining evidence from the capital prosecution of Cameron Willingham, four national arson experts have concluded that the original investigation of Willingham’s case was flawed, and it is possible the fire was accidental. The independent investigation, reported by the Chicago Tribune, found that prosecutors and arson investigators used arson theories that have since been repudiated by scientific advances. Willingham was executed in 2004 in Texas despite his consistent claims of innocence. He was convicted of murdering his three children in a 1991 house fire.

Arson expert Gerald Hurst said, “There’s nothing to suggest to any reasonable arson investigator that this was an arson fire. It was just a fire.” Former Louisiana State University fire instructor Kendall Ryland added, “[It] made me sick to think this guy was executed based on this investigation…. They executed this guy and they’ve just got no idea - at least not scientifically - if he set the fire, or if the fire was even intentionally set.”

Willingham was convicted of capital murder after arson investigators concluded that 20 indicators of arson led them to believe that an accelerent had been used to set three separate fires inside his home. Among the only other evidence presented by prosecutors during the the trial was testimony from jailhouse snitch Johnny E. Webb, a drug addict on psychiatric medication, who claimed Willingham had confessed to him in the county jail. Evidence discovered years after the Willingham execution showed that the prosecution had given Webb favorable treatment, then deliberately elicited perjured testimony from Webb that he had been promised and given nothing for his testimony. (The Marshall Project, August 3, 2014).

Some of the jurors who convicted Willingham were troubled when told of the new case review. Juror Dorinda Brokofsky asked, “Did anybody know about this prior to his execution? Now I will have to live with this for the rest of my life. Maybe this man was innocent.” Prior to the execution, Willingham’s defense attorneys presented expert testimony regarding the new arson investigation to the state’s highest court, as well as to Texas Governor Rick Perry. No relief was granted and Willingham was executed on February 17, 2004. Coincidentally, less than a year after Willingham’s execution, arson evidence presented by some of the same experts who had appealed for relief in Willingham’s case helped free Ernest Willis from Texas’s death row. The experts noted that the evidence in the Willingham case was nearly identical to the evidence used to exonerate Willis. (Chicago Tribune, December 9, 2004).

 

[JoeB131]

Jeff dahmer.

Dahmner was mentally ill and probably should have been found not guilty by reason of insanity.

Instead, he was thrown in general population with no treatment and murdered by another inmate.