What's new
US Message Board 🦅 Political Discussion Forum

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Stirring It Up

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
1. Full disclosure: big fan of Charles Murray, here.
Recently, I posted several threads about Murray's new book, "Facing Reality."
Just came upon an essay about Murray and the book, with the central message of individualism being part of American heritage, as opposed to the collectivism espoused by the Democrats, and judging folks by their skin color, and their group identity.


2. "... as Razib Khan has pointed out, unlike in the case of The Bell Curve in 1994, mainstream newspapers are still not even prepared to review Murray’s book.



Written in response to the American anarchy of 2020-1, brought about by the death of George Floyd, Black Lives Matter and the disputed presidential election, Murray’s essay was a call—albeit delivered calmly and with reference to persuasive data—to a return to an America of individuals in which all Americans have equal rights and are judged as individuals.
Murray argues that this really is the founding creed of the United States, which Martin Luther King successfully argued should be fully extended to all African-Americans: that all Americans should be treated as individuals, rather than as manifestations of their race or class, and should be permitted to flourish, or not flourish, accordingly.


3. In Facing Reality, Murray charts that way in which this, from his perspective, noble idea has been gradually distorted such that Americans now live in a kind of fairground mirror version of the Jim Crow Deep South—although, needless to say, he does not put it in these terms.

4. Now, the prevailing ideology appears to be that White people should be discriminated against in law in order to atone for the wrongs historically done to American black people by white people. And black people should have, in effect, privileges—in education, in employment and in much else—because their ancestors, or simply people that looked like them, experienced slavery and discrimination at the hands of white people.

5. Murray spells this situation out very well. He notes that it is rationalized by the claim that racial differences in economic outcomes, or even in crime rates, are entirely the result of environmental factors and in particular of “systemic racism” at the hands of whites.

But Murray proves, as patiently as anyone can, that this is simply not the case."



Are there any who would dispute that the Democrat Party is based on anti-white racism????
 

shoshi

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2020
Messages
1,098
Reaction score
610
Points
938
it seems even Democrats are tiring of the woke mafia. Too extreme even for liberals. As for Democrat party machine I think its about getting votes. They will take any stand they think their base wants to hear.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
it seems even Democrats are tiring of the woke mafia. Too extreme even for liberals. As for Democrat party machine I think its about getting votes. They will take any stand they think their base wants to hear.


"it seems even Democrats are tiring of the woke mafia. Too extreme even for liberals."


Shouldn't we wait to see election results before we apply an ability to ratiocinate to folks who, up to now, haven't provided any evidence for same???
 

Circe

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
8,699
Reaction score
3,172
Points
290
Location
Aeaea
I have the book ---- I haven't read it yet. I better put that one higher on the pile.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I have the book ---- I haven't read it yet. I better put that one higher on the pile.


I'd be interested in your view after reading same.
 

Crepitus

Diamond Member
Joined
Mar 28, 2018
Messages
57,065
Reaction score
18,929
Points
2,260
1. Full disclosure: big fan of Charles Murray, here.
Recently, I posted several threads about Murray's new book, "Facing Reality."
Just came upon an essay about Murray and the book, with the central message of individualism being part of American heritage, as opposed to the collectivism espoused by the Democrats, and judging folks by their skin color, and their group identity.


2. "... as Razib Khan has pointed out, unlike in the case of The Bell Curve in 1994, mainstream newspapers are still not even prepared to review Murray’s book.



Written in response to the American anarchy of 2020-1, brought about by the death of George Floyd, Black Lives Matter and the disputed presidential election, Murray’s essay was a call—albeit delivered calmly and with reference to persuasive data—to a return to an America of individuals in which all Americans have equal rights and are judged as individuals.
Murray argues that this really is the founding creed of the United States, which Martin Luther King successfully argued should be fully extended to all African-Americans: that all Americans should be treated as individuals, rather than as manifestations of their race or class, and should be permitted to flourish, or not flourish, accordingly.


3. In Facing Reality, Murray charts that way in which this, from his perspective, noble idea has been gradually distorted such that Americans now live in a kind of fairground mirror version of the Jim Crow Deep South—although, needless to say, he does not put it in these terms.

4. Now, the prevailing ideology appears to be that White people should be discriminated against in law in order to atone for the wrongs historically done to American black people by white people. And black people should have, in effect, privileges—in education, in employment and in much else—because their ancestors, or simply people that looked like them, experienced slavery and discrimination at the hands of white people.

5. Murray spells this situation out very well. He notes that it is rationalized by the claim that racial differences in economic outcomes, or even in crime rates, are entirely the result of environmental factors and in particular of “systemic racism” at the hands of whites.

But Murray proves, as patiently as anyone can, that this is simply not the case."



Are there any who would dispute that the Democrat Party is based on anti-white racism????
There's some boss level irony involved in you posting about "facing reality".
 

mga138

Gold Member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
410
Reaction score
136
Points
143
Location
E. 10th NYC
1. Full disclosure: big fan of Charles Murray, here.
Recently, I posted several threads about Murray's new book, "Facing Reality."
Just came upon an essay about Murray and the book, with the central message of individualism being part of American heritage, as opposed to the collectivism espoused by the Democrats, and judging folks by their skin color, and their group identity.


2. "... as Razib Khan has pointed out, unlike in the case of The Bell Curve in 1994, mainstream newspapers are still not even prepared to review Murray’s book.



Written in response to the American anarchy of 2020-1, brought about by the death of George Floyd, Black Lives Matter and the disputed presidential election, Murray’s essay was a call—albeit delivered calmly and with reference to persuasive data—to a return to an America of individuals in which all Americans have equal rights and are judged as individuals.
Murray argues that this really is the founding creed of the United States, which Martin Luther King successfully argued should be fully extended to all African-Americans: that all Americans should be treated as individuals, rather than as manifestations of their race or class, and should be permitted to flourish, or not flourish, accordingly.


3. In Facing Reality, Murray charts that way in which this, from his perspective, noble idea has been gradually distorted such that Americans now live in a kind of fairground mirror version of the Jim Crow Deep South—although, needless to say, he does not put it in these terms.

4. Now, the prevailing ideology appears to be that White people should be discriminated against in law in order to atone for the wrongs historically done to American black people by white people. And black people should have, in effect, privileges—in education, in employment and in much else—because their ancestors, or simply people that looked like them, experienced slavery and discrimination at the hands of white people.

5. Murray spells this situation out very well. He notes that it is rationalized by the claim that racial differences in economic outcomes, or even in crime rates, are entirely the result of environmental factors and in particular of “systemic racism” at the hands of whites.

But Murray proves, as patiently as anyone can, that this is simply not the case."



Are there any who would dispute that the Democrat Party is based on anti-white racism????

His books are quite good and I do appreciate his research. The two things that always leave me cold are the bones, as it were, that he throws to the left. One example from this book is:

The American criminal justice system needs reform on many fronts. Inconsistencies in sentencing, including racial injustices, are a problem. Uneven enforcement of drug laws is a problem. Overuse of imprisonment is a problem. The militarization of the police is a problem.

I'm not really sure what he means by that, but it seems like he is just trying to appease the people who hate him by making such unsubstantiated comments like that.

He also fails to give any advice on what we should do to change the direction of the country, other than for us to just sit around and hope the Left decides to read his books and agree with him. That will never happen, of course. I understand that his books aren't created for that purpose, but one is struck by a sense of futility when closing this book.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
There's some boss level irony involved in you posting about "facing reality".


So you really can't articulate any point about the OP that irked you so?


You should stick to thread more at your level....favorite cartoon character, and your undying love for Hillary.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
His books are quite good and I do appreciate his research. The two things that always leave me cold are the bones he throws to the left, as it were. One example from this book is:

The American criminal justice system needs reform on many fronts. Inconsistencies in sentencing, including racial injustices, are a problem. Uneven enforcement of drug laws is a problem. Overuse of imprisonment is a problem. The militarization of the police is a problem.

I'm not really sure what he means by that, but it seems like he is just trying to appease the people who hate him by making such unsubstantiated comments like these.
He also fails to give any advice on what we should do to change the direction of the country, other than for us to just sit around and hope the Left decided to read his books and agree with him. That will never happen, of course. I understand that his books aren't created for that purpose, but one is struck by a sense of futility when closing this book.


The article that I quote in this thread includes a similar view.....

“Murrayism”—trying reasonably to discuss racial differences while making many concessions to the anti-science Left and suppressing Politically Incorrect science that goes further—has failed. Now what?"



I see it as Murray trying to avoid the suffering he took for his scholarly and well written previous books.


He should know that it won't matter to the Wehrmacht.....er, Democrats.
 

Donald H

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,813
Points
208
it seems even Democrats are tiring of the woke mafia. Too extreme even for liberals. As for Democrat party machine I think its about getting votes. They will take any stand they think their base wants to hear.
Don't imagine that Democratic party supporters are less racist against blacks than the other side. The only exceptions to that is the need for them to feign support for black people because their politics depend so much on support from black America.

There's nothing to gain anymore in opposing racism in America and there's no longer any possibility of eliminating the problem by any means other than police brutality and lethal force being used to put down black Americans' attempts at gaining some equality.

It has to work! There's no possibility of an olive branch being offered to black people; the racism and hating is with America to stay. That's Trump's greatest success. He grabbed the problem that was seeing a decline and brought it back to 1960's levels.[/b]

So Murray brings the point home completely. If he's looking for any dissent from his views coming from the white political left in America, he'll be disappointed.

The only dissent will have to come from the Democratic party's feigning of concern.
 
Last edited:
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Don't imagine that Democratic party supporters are less racist against blacks the the other side. The only exceptions to that is the need for them to feign support for black people because their politics depend so much on support from black America.

There's nothing to gain anymore in opposing racism in America and there's no longer any possibility of eliminating the problem by any means other than police brutality and lethal force being used to put down black Americans' attempts at gaining some equality.

It has to work! There's no possibility of an olive branch being offered to black people; the racism and hating is with America to stay. That's Trump's greatest success. He grabbed the problem that was seeing a decline and brought it back to 1960's levels.[/b]

So Murray brings the point home completely. If he's looking for any dissent from his views coming from the white political left in America, he'll be disappointed.

The only dissent will have to come from the Democratic party's feigning of concern.


"Don't imagine that Democratic party supporters are less racist against blacks the the other side."


Why would you include "the other side"???

A pretense at neutrality????



It is and has always been only the Democrat Party.
Racist against blacks, and now, racist against white folks.


Democrat’s Bountiful Gifts To Out Black Brethren

1.Doubling down on their support for slavery and segregation, the Democrat Party blocked every anti-lynching to come to the Senate.

2. Dragging their feet on post-war freedom for their slaves, they imposed poll taxes and Jim Crow laws.

3. The Obama ‘Promise Program’ made it almost impossible to remove thugs and criminals from ghetto schools, to make certain that learning was impeded.

4. Authored gun laws that only law abiding citizens would obey, preventing black citizens in crime ridden neighborhood from protecting themselves.

5. Promoted bogus anti-police hatred, while ignoring some 350,000 blacks killed by lawless blacks. 324,000 U.S. Blacks Killed by Blacks In Only 35 Years – American Free Press

6. In nearing a century of Democrat welfare, blacks remain as the lowest income racial group.

7. Allied with the International Left, the Democrat party makes certain that racial animosity never dies down.

8. The Democrats made and make certain that religion and morality is barred from the schools and from the public arena. “…will America be made better by curbing religion in the name of secularism, of vice versa?” Ben Shapiro


9. The Democrat judicial system is based on the idea that all blacks are felons, so felons must be released from jails. Carter-appointed judge Norma Shapiro “ is one of the worst offenders among that influential cadre of federal judges who have substituted the ACLU's prisoners' rights wish list for the Bill of Rights and have trifled with public safety concerns. …” In 1992, black youths were nine times more likely to be murdered than white youths. Democrats lied, kids died.

10. But wait…..they did manage to ban one single word from common parlance.




I yearn for the day when you author an honest post.....so far, unfulfilled.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
6. “Murray then turns to the idea that “police are racist against black people.He demonstrates that is untrue.

If anything, Murray shows, it is whites who are arrested at a higher rate than they should be based on per capita race differences in criminality.

Thus, these two “facts” are cogently presented and two Leftist myths are comprehensively refuted.

Murray concludes by arguing that the current situation—in which white people are legally discriminated against—is a new danger to the America in which “All men are created equal.” He claims it is likely to result, and is resulting in, a gradual white backlash in which white people—just as black people have been doing, especially since the Civil Rights Era—start to create a strong sense that their identity and interests are based around being “white” and that they must stand up for themselves as white people. Murray believes that if this happens again, with the Republican Party becoming the de facto white party and whites decreasingly trusting the government, it will potentially be the end for America’s Founding Ideals.”
 

Donald H

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,813
Points
208
The article that I quote in this thread includes a similar view.....

“Murrayism”—trying reasonably to discuss racial differences while making many concessions to the anti-science Left and suppressing Politically Incorrect science that goes further—has failed. Now what?"



I see it as Murray trying to avoid the suffering he took for his scholarly and well written previous books.
The American criminal justice system needs reform on many fronts. Inconsistencies in sentencing, including racial injustices, are a problem. Uneven enforcement of drug laws is a problem. Overuse of imprisonment is a problem. The militarization of the police is a problem.


All issues on which Americans can hold out hope of changing by the use of more police brutality.

Neither side of the political divide has any honest ambitions of holding out the olive branch.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
All issues on which Americans can hold out hope of changing by the use of more police brutality.

Neither side of the political divide has any honest ambitions of holding out the olive branch.


Is this what you mean by 'police brutality'???




Shock Video: Another Pastor Arrested In Canada Following Anti-Lockdown Church Service

 

Donald H

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,813
Points
208
I yearn for the day when you author an honest post.....so far, unfulfilled.
Are you ready? Even though there's no mistaking the fact that Trump's supporters are sporting swastikas, Confederate flags, Klan badges, flaming crosses, and other neo-Nazi symbols, we can still reach agreement on the racism of the Biden side. As I've suggested, their political needs dictate the need to feign support for black Americans.

For the sake of reaching some kind of agreement, I have no real commitment to that which I've bolded above. We can leave that to some future discussion hon.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Are you ready? Even though there's no mistaking the fact that Trump's supporters are sporting swastikas, Confederate flags, Klan badges, flaming crosses, and other neo-Nazi symbols, we can still reach agreement on the racism of the Biden side. As I've suggested, their political needs dictate the need to feign support for black Americans.

For the sake of reaching some kind of agreement, I have no real commitment to that which I've bolded above. We can leave that to some future discussion hon.



When you say 'police brutality,' is this what you were gettin' at???


“9 Unarmed Black Men were killed by Police in 2019”
9 Unarmed Black Men were killed by Police in 2019



In 2018 and 2019, a record 53 children died of vehicular heatstroke each year. In 2020, during the public health emergency, 25 children lost their lives in hot cars, and in 2021, 10 children have died.

You Can Help Prevent Hot Car Deaths | NHTSA

https://www.nhtsa.gov/child-safety/...2018 and 2019, a,2021, 10 children have died.
How many of them were armed? Ran from police? Resisted arrest???



So far this year, 34 police have been killed in the line of duty:



Displaying officers 1 through 25 of 34 for search terms:"Gunfire", "2020" through "2020" The Officer Down Memorial Page (ODMP)
 

Donald H

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2020
Messages
5,669
Reaction score
1,813
Points
208
Is this what you mean by 'police brutality'???


I mean the example of Chauvin being convicted of all charges of murder.
Chauvin was in my opinion attempting to set the bar much lower on what the American public will accept as the police's rights. It was a purposeful public demonstration by Chauvin. Had he escaped justice he would have gone down in America's history as a hero.

Can you not at least be thankful for the concession i've given you on the fact that the political left in America is every bit as racist as any others? just because they don't carry the same paraphenalia as the extreme right doesn't mean they wouldn't want to be open and honest.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
Are you ready? Even though there's no mistaking the fact that Trump's supporters are sporting swastikas, Confederate flags, Klan badges, flaming crosses, and other neo-Nazi symbols, we can still reach agreement on the racism of the Biden side. As I've suggested, their political needs dictate the need to feign support for black Americans.

For the sake of reaching some kind of agreement, I have no real commitment to that which I've bolded above. We can leave that to some future discussion hon.


"Trump's supporters are sporting swastikas, Confederate flags, Klan badges, flaming crosses, and other neo-Nazi symbols,...."

Nazis were socialists, like you and the Democrats.



And.....speaking of Confederate flags....


  1. a. Governor Clinton was among three state officials the NAACP sued in 1989 under the federal Voting Rights Act of 1965. “Plaintiffs offered plenty of proof of monolithic voting along racial lines, intimidation of black voters and candidates and other official acts that made voting harder for blacks,” the Arkansas Gazette reported December 6, 1989.




    b. Bill Clinton had a Confederate flag-like issue, every year he was governor: 1979-1992 Arkansas Code Annotated, Section 1-5-107, provides as follows:

    (a) The Saturday immediately preceding Easter Sunday of each year is designated as ‘Confederate Flag Day’ in this state.

    (b) No person, firm, or corporation shall display an Confederate flag or replica thereof in connection with any advertisement of any commercial enterprise, or in any manner for any purpose except to honor the Confederate States of America. [Emphasis added.]

    (c) Any person, firm, or corporation violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars ($100) nor more than one thousand dollars ($1,000).

    Bill Clinton took no steps during his twelve years as governor to repeal this law.
    Hillary Clinton's Confederacy Hypocrisy | The Gateway Pundit



[Let's Stop Pretending the Confederate Flag Isn't a Symbol of RacismJust to refresh everyone's memories, we're talking about the official national flag that was used to represent the Confederate States of America during the Civil War. You know, that awkward time period when the South was vehemently fighting to keep slavery around as a means of economic prosperity for white plantation owners.

I've heard arguments time and again about how the Confederate flag is no longer representative of slavery, and how it's now indicative of "Southern pride and heritage." But I'm really over the whole "respect your heritage" mantra, especially when your heritage is hate.

1635363995133.png






There is only one racist party.....the one you defend and support.....the Democrat Party.
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I mean the example of Chauvin being convicted of all charges of murder.
Chauvin was in my opinion attempting to set the bar much lower on what the American public will accept as the police's rights. It was a purposeful public demonstration by Chauvin. Had he escaped justice he would have gone down in America's history as a hero.

Can you not at least be thankful for the concession i've given you on the fact that the political left in America is every bit as racist as any others? just because they don't carry the same paraphenalia as the extreme right doesn't mean they wouldn't want to be open and honest.



Soooo.......this is your hero???



1635364109134.png
 
OP
PoliticalChic

PoliticalChic

Diamond Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2008
Messages
113,060
Reaction score
47,833
Points
2,300
Location
Brooklyn, NY
7. And, this story, which marks an event against the tide.

A response????



“White male marketing VP at North Carolina hospital wins $10million 'reverse discrimination' payout after he was replaced by two women - one of whom is black - as part of diversity and inclusion program


  • David Duvall was fired by Novant Health in South Carolina in 2018, five days before his fifth work anniversary
  • At the time, he was the Senior Vice President of Marketing and Communications
  • He says he was not given a reason for the firing, and was even told by his supervisor that he had done nothing wrong
  • Duvall's role was split in two and given to two women; Kate Everett and Vicky Free
  • Everett, who is white, worked beneath him and was promoted to Chief PR and Communications Officer
  • Free, who is black, was brought in as the Chief Marketing Officer
  • Duvall says both women are qualified but no more so than him, and that he was replaced as part of the company's five-year inclusion and diversity plan
  • He alleges that he is one of five white men who lost their jobs that way in the healthcare group” Daily Mail.
  • White man wins $10m 'reverse discrimination' payout from hospital
 

USMB Server Goals

Total amount
$95.00
Goal
$350.00

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top