States would decide on their own abortion laws. Really?

[Uncensored2008]

So you trust BreitFART?

I said nothing about the free press, but yes - I trust Breitbart.

I mean, they've never lied to me. Politifraud lies nearly every time.

Now you're a Nazi - so you want to be lied to. as long as the lies validate what the Reich says. Politifraud lies for your Reich, so you want to listen.

Heil Soros.

 

[alang1216]

We've discussed that. I'd be okay with that.

Sorry, ADD.

But I've also known two families who were advised to abort because they were told the mothers' life was endangered by the pregnancy. Both refused.

Both gave birth to healthy babies, and the mothers had no ill effects.

I'm happy that is the case but it doesn't change the fact they chose to take that risk. The operative word being they chose, as in the decision was left up to them.

I guess we both agree that sometimes ending a pregnancy is justified. I doubt we'll ever agree when those times are.

 

[flan327]

We've discussed that. I'd be okay with that.

But I've also known two families who were advised to abort because they were told the mothers' life was endangered by the pregnancy. Both refused.

Both gave birth to healthy babies, and the mothers had no ill effects.

Two out of how many hundreds?

 

[flan327]

I said nothing about the free press, but yes - I trust Breitbart.

I mean, they've never lied to me. Politifraud lies nearly every time.

Now you're a Nazi - so you want to be lied to. as long as the lies validate what the Reich says. Politifraud lies for your Reich, so you want to listen.

Heil Soros.

Post reported

 

[daveman]

Sorry, ADD.


I'm happy that is the case but it doesn't change the fact they chose to take that risk. The operative word being they chose, as in the decision was left up to them.

I guess we both agree that sometimes ending a pregnancy is justified. I doubt we'll ever agree when those times are.

I guarantee we won't.

 

[daveman]

Two out of how many hundreds?

How many hundreds of pregnant people I've known?

I haven't.

I was speaking of people I've known. I don't know everybody.

Clear now?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Post reported

Awww, poor little Nazi has a sadz...

 

[Chuz Life]

I don't disagree with that. My question is what would stop the GOP from making it illegal for any kind of abortions. Point being that this argument it would be left up to the states could be temporary. It may very well lead to a total outlaw of abortions.

That is exactly why I have a problem with Alito's (leaked draft) reasoning. He could have addressed the issue of "personhood" as Justice Potter Stewart almost did in Roe.
He COULD have sent a clear message that (per fetal homicide laws) and for other reasons based in biology, a child in the womb is a human being and if it is recognized as a person (murder victim) in one legal setting, they must also be recognized as persons in all other legal settings.

But, so far, he has not done so.
As a result, it will be kicked back to the States and eventually, yet another case will make it's way back to the SCOTUS for them to try again.
Until, one day (maybe) they will finally deal with the child's personhood and 14th Amendment rights that have (to date) been systematically denied.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That is exactly why I have a problem with Alito's (leaked draft) reasoning. He could have addressed the issue of "personhood" as Justice Potter Stewart almost did in Roe.
He COULD have sent a clear message that (per fetal homicide laws) and for other reasons based in biology, a child in the womb is a human being and if it is recognized as a person (murder victim) in one legal setting, they must also be recognized as persons in all other legal settings.

But, so far, he has not done so.
As a result, it will be kicked back to the States and eventually, yet another case will make it's way back to the SCOTUS for them to try again.
Until, one day (maybe) they will finally deal with the child's personhood and 14th Amendment rights that have (to date) been systematically denied.

But you are treading in muddy waters. A US Supreme Court judge cannot rule when a person is an actual human being because that's a matter of opinion and not fact. It's been the age old argument for decades. All the SC is there to rule on is if Wade is protected by the US Constitution which it clearly is not. Abortion is never mentioned in the document. But once it has no constitutional protections, to me it would seem that a right leaning Congress and White House could indeed make abortion murder across the entire land. States rights would no longer apply since it's not constitutionally protected. I think McConnell is absolutely correct.

 

[Chuz Life]

But you are treading in muddy waters. A US Supreme Court judge cannot rule when a person is an actual human being because that's a matter of opinion and not fact. It's been the age old argument for decades.

That is incorrect.

We do in fact have laws (Fetal Homicide laws) that legally define and recognize "children in the womb" as "human beings" and by making it a crime of "murder" to kill one in a criminal act, they also establish "personhood" for "children in the womb."
The SCOTUS only needs to based their decision to overturn Roe on that legal precedent and make the case that it is UN-Constitutional to recognize and define "children in the womb" as Persons in one legal setting and DENY they are persons in another legal setting.

 

[sealybobo]

Only if you agree that this fetus is a child

Ward and her husband had health insurance through her employer in Texas.

Approximate medical debt: $80,000
Medical issue: childbirth

Ward is a nurse practitioner who works at a neonatal intensive care unit in Chicago. Her husband, Marcus Ward, runs a small nonprofit.

But when the couple's boys, Milo and Theo, were born 10 weeks prematurely, their lives were upended financially.

Having insurance is often not enough to protect patients when they have a major medical event. Most Americans who have medical debt had coverage.

Even with health insurance, childbirth can be very expensive. One in eight Americans who have health care debt say it was at least partially caused by pregnancy and childbirth.

Ward and her husband are also among tens of millions of Americans who end up with medical debt because their health plan didn't pay for something they believed would be covered. Such insurance issues are the most common form of billing problem cited by Americans with debt.

 

[sealybobo]

That is incorrect.

We do in fact have laws (Fetal Homicide laws) that legally define and recognize "children in the womb" as "human beings" and by making it a crime of "murder" to kill one in a criminal act, they also establish "personhood" for "children in the womb."
The SCOTUS only needs to based their decision to overturn Roe on that legal precedent and make the case that it is UN-Constitutional to recognize and define "children in the womb" as Persons in one legal setting and DENY they are persons in another legal setting.

Pro lifers have been planning this for years. Cases brought, made and won years ago all to lead up to this moment.

 

[Chuz Life]

Pro lifers have been planning this for years. Cases brought, made and won years ago all to lead up to this moment.

Those laws were passed well before Trump was ever elected and before Trump appointed/nominated his first judge. Those laws were opposed by Planned Parenthood, NARAL and the ACLU. All of whom had an interest in "proving" to the courts that an abortion does not kill a child. That "fetal Homicide" laws can not make it a crime of "murder" to kill a "child in the womb" because it's not a CHILD, etc.

And they lost.

Do you know why they lost?

It wasn't a right wing conspiracy.

It's because the biological facts prove against their denials. no matter how passionately those denials are felt.

 

[flan327]

How many hundreds of pregnant people I've known?

I haven't.

I was speaking of people I've known. I don't know everybody.

Clear now?

No

 

[Chuz Life]

So a womans rights depends on her address?

So a child's personhood and basic human rights depends on THEIR address?

 

[daveman]

No

I really can't explain it any simpler.

 

[sealybobo]

Those laws were passed well before Trump was ever elected and before Trump appointed/nominated his first judge. Those laws were opposed by Planned Parenthood, NARAL and the ACLU. All of whom had an interest in "proving" to the courts that an abortion does not kill a child. That "fetal Homicide" laws can not make it a crime of "murder" to kill a "child in the womb" because it's not a CHILD, etc.

And they lost.

Do you know why they lost?

It wasn't a right wing conspiracy.

It's because the biological facts prove against their denials. no matter how passionately those denials are felt.

Yea because some shady Heritage Foundation judge legislated from the bench. Yes, you guys spent YEARS setting this up. Decades.

 

[Chuz Life]

Yea because some shady Heritage Foundation judge legislated from the bench. Yes, you guys spent YEARS setting this up. Decades.

All you need to do is "prove the negative."

I can give you quite a bit of evidence that shows a child's life begins at and by conception.

You simply have to prove against that evidence with something more than diversions, obstructions and denials.

 

[sealybobo]

All you need to do is "prove the negative."

I can give you quite a bit of evidence that shows a child's life begins at and by conception.

You simply have to prove against that evidence with something more than diversions, obstructions and denials.

Of course it does but life isn't that precious. If it is to you, have the baby. Stay out of my body. Women are going to get abortions even if you make them illegal. You want to put them in jail for murder? You're fucking weird. Is this a religious belief? Keep your religion to yourselves. I'm an atheist who wants to abort.

Be honest. You don't give a FUCK about the seed in my liberal womb. Don't even pretend.

 

[Chuz Life]

Of course it does but life isn't that precious. If it is to you, have the baby. Stay out of my body. Women are going to get abortions even if you make them illegal. You want to put them in jail for murder? You're fucking weird. Is this a religious belief? Keep your religion to yourselves. I'm an atheist who wants to abort.

Be honest. You don't give a FUCK about the seed in my liberal womb. Don't even pretend.

This is me being honest.

"My views and what I give a FUCK about doesn't have a fucking thing to do with YOU or any other woman or the "seeds" that they carry."

"Life is NOT sacred to me."

Why don't you for fucking once ask someone what their fucking views are instead of trying to TELL them what their views are?

Then, try actually taking their answers into some level of fucking consideration?