CDZ State Sponsored Terrorism

[TNHarley]

HAMAS, Hezbollah, small sub groups of Palestinian jihad, Iranian proxies in Iraq and al Q just to name a few. Do you know anything about Iran? Since the late 70s, that's been their thing; terrorism.

You might have a point about Hamas, although I believe the Iranians actually go through the Palestinian Liberation Army (PLA).

Iran is definitely not friends with Al-Qaeda. They have no proxies in Iraq, although Quds Force is active there. Hezbollah has had limited operations in Iraq in the past, but nothing significant.

Like I said, Iran definitely engages in terrorism within their own country. They do not sponsor it abroad to my knowledge, but I will have to look into whether or not they are financing Hamas.

Except Palestine and Iraq. Probably more that I have forgotten. And they made a deal with AQ back in the 90s to have them trained by their Hezbollah mercenaries. They even helped a lot of their fighters escape Iraq before the war. BTW, HEZ is a terrorist group based out of Lebanon. Iran started funding them to fuck with Israel. Hell, their manifesto talks about the destruction of America, the French and jews.

 

[there4eyeM]

As great amounts of WWII bombing was not against military targets, it has to have been to demoralize/terrorize the bombed nation.

 

[Divine Wind]

"accidental" to ISIS. A couple times.
Yes, they do. That's probably the stupidest thing I have read today
Meh. Look at the ME now compared to 30 years ago. Of course, I also think ISIS is a proxy, so I could be a bit biased.
obama dropped wepaon caches to isis - Bing

Agreed and disagreed. Yes, accidental. Fog of war. Shit happens. If every war there are friendly fire losses. Same goes for losses of supplies to the enemy. Air drops aren't anymore perfect than bomb drops.

As for the ME, I readily agree. Despite appearances, things have gotten better in many respects, but like the game of Whack-A-Mole, other problems have popped up. The main one being the culmination of radical Islam. Specifically the Wahhabist Sunni version. In that case, ISIS isn't a proxy, but the pinnacle of over 100 years of a fundamentalist version of Sunni Islam.

But it happened more than once. He also thought it was a good idea to give ISIS warnings before a bombing when they weren't even in town. There are ALL kinds of factors as to why I think ISIS is proxy. Search my threads I have started. I cant begin to explain it all at once.

AFAIK, President Obama doesn't know how to fly, therefore anyone who believes the US is supporting ISIS has to believe there are hundreds of American military and intelligence personnel supporting this action. Sorry, but I strongly doubt any large group of Americans would do so.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Add to that what was done in Nicaragua.

His extra-Constitutional activities may not have been terrorist as well, but they certainly didn't aid the cause of democracy.

Groups that blow up and massacre schools and hospitals are terrorists. Period.

The fact that the Reagan administration and media tried to call them freedom fighters was an insult to the countries collective intelligence.

Bill Clinton’s Act of Terrorism | Jacobin

efore fourteen cruise missiles turned it into a heap of twisted steel and medical detritus, the Al Shifa factory in Khartoum was the largest manufacturer of medicines in all of Sudan, producing over half of the country’s pharmaceutical products and specializing in anti-malaria drugs. But on August 20, 1998, the plant was “pulverized,” reduced to nothing but “broken concrete and iron bars,” leaving “thousands of brown bottles of veterinary and other medicines” littered across the sand. Fourteen years later, its wreckage remained, a shrine to an incident that locals still refer to as a terrorist attack.

Must admit that it was either wag the dog or get caught with DNA on a blue dress. The blue dress showed up anyway. You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's. Now you commies are trying to destroy the US from within. Sorry but 70% of US citizens don't like it and wont allow you to finish.

 

[Onyx]

And they made a deal with AQ back in the 90s to have them trained by their Hezbollah mercenaries. They even helped a lot of their fighters escape Iraq before the war.

In the early 90s Al-Qaeda was not a terrorist group. Al-Qaeda was actually financed by the CIA as well.

Are you talking about the Iraq-Iran war or the US invasion of Iraq, because the latter could actually be considered sponsoring terrorism?

BTW, HEZ is a terrorist group based out of Lebanon. Iran started funding them to fuck with Israel. Hell, their manifesto talks about the destruction of America, the French and jews.

It does not matter what their agenda says.

As long as they are not systematically killing civilians in a terror campaign, they are not terrorists. Hezbollah has no major record of attacking civilian targets, whereas Israel does.

I acknowledge that Iran does fund Hamas though (since they admit to it), so I will concede that Iran sponsors terrorism abroad.

 

[TNHarley]

"accidental" to ISIS. A couple times.
Yes, they do. That's probably the stupidest thing I have read today
Meh. Look at the ME now compared to 30 years ago. Of course, I also think ISIS is a proxy, so I could be a bit biased.
obama dropped wepaon caches to isis - Bing

Agreed and disagreed. Yes, accidental. Fog of war. Shit happens. If every war there are friendly fire losses. Same goes for losses of supplies to the enemy. Air drops aren't anymore perfect than bomb drops.

As for the ME, I readily agree. Despite appearances, things have gotten better in many respects, but like the game of Whack-A-Mole, other problems have popped up. The main one being the culmination of radical Islam. Specifically the Wahhabist Sunni version. In that case, ISIS isn't a proxy, but the pinnacle of over 100 years of a fundamentalist version of Sunni Islam.

But it happened more than once. He also thought it was a good idea to give ISIS warnings before a bombing when they weren't even in town. There are ALL kinds of factors as to why I think ISIS is proxy. Search my threads I have started. I cant begin to explain it all at once.

AFAIK, President Obama doesn't know how to fly, therefore anyone who believes the US is supporting ISIS has to believe there are hundreds of American military and intelligence personnel supporting this action. Sorry, but I strongly doubt any large group of Americans would do so.

I don't either and I don't think there has to be a scenario like that for my opinion to be truth. It only takes one. Everyone thought it was bullshit turkey was smuggling ISIS oil, too. "That would have to be one huge conspiracy!" evidently not...

 

[Onyx]

Bill Clinton’s Act of Terrorism | Jacobin

efore fourteen cruise missiles turned it into a heap of twisted steel and medical detritus, the Al Shifa factory in Khartoum was the largest manufacturer of medicines in all of Sudan, producing over half of the country’s pharmaceutical products and specializing in anti-malaria drugs. But on August 20, 1998, the plant was “pulverized,” reduced to nothing but “broken concrete and iron bars,” leaving “thousands of brown bottles of veterinary and other medicines” littered across the sand. Fourteen years later, its wreckage remained, a shrine to an incident that locals still refer to as a terrorist attack.

Must admit that it was either wag the dog or get caught with DNA on a blue dress. The blue dress showed up anyway. You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's. Now you commies are trying to destroy the US from within. Sorry but 70% of US citizens don't like it and wont allow you to finish.

WTF are you talking about?

How did you get from defending the Contras to talking about Monica Lewinsky and a liberal-communist agenda?

 

[Onyx]

Bill Clinton’s Act of Terrorism | Jacobin Before fourteen cruise missiles turned it into a heap of twisted steel and medical detritus, the Al Shifa factory in Khartoum was the largest manufacturer of medicines in all of Sudan, producing over half of the country’s pharmaceutical products and specializing in anti-malaria drugs. But on August 20, 1998, the plant was “pulverized,” reduced to nothing but “broken concrete and iron bars,” leaving “thousands of brown bottles of veterinary and other medicines” littered across the sand. Fourteen years later, its wreckage remained, a shrine to an incident that locals still refer to as a terrorist attack. Must admit that it was either wag the dog or get caught with DNA on a blue dress. The blue dress showed up anyway. You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's. Now you commies are trying to destroy the US from within. Sorry but 70% of US citizens don't like it and wont allow you to finish.

WTF are you talking about?

How did you get from defending the Contras to talking about Monica Lewinsky and a liberal-communist agenda?

You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's.

I hate Reagan because he fueled the military-industrial complex and spread terror across the third world.

His interventions directly contributed to several populist dictatorships that are still around today.

 

[Divine Wind]

As great amounts of WWII bombing was not against military targets, it has to have been to demoralize/terrorize the bombed nation.

Correct. And not just WWII. The Germans used their dirigibles to bomb London in WWI. The Brits shot down hundreds of non-violent Indian protesters in 1919. Human history is replete with mankind's brutality to his fellow man. Technology just allowed us to be more efficient at it. The Third Reich mechanized the process of human brutality to the point they could kill millions with factory efficiency.

The good news is that we've reached a point in our civilization, at leasts in the First World, where we do our best to avoid such loss of life.

 

[TNHarley]

And they made a deal with AQ back in the 90s to have them trained by their Hezbollah mercenaries. They even helped a lot of their fighters escape Iraq before the war.

In the early 90s Al-Qaeda was not a terrorist group. Al-Qaeda was actually financed by the CIA as well.

Are you talking about the Iraq-Iran war or the US invasion of Iraq, because the latter could actually be considered sponsoring terrorism?

BTW, HEZ is a terrorist group based out of Lebanon. Iran started funding them to fuck with Israel. Hell, their manifesto talks about the destruction of America, the French and jews.

It does not matter what their agenda says.

As long as they are not systematically killing civilians in a terror campaign, they are not terrorists. Hezbollah has no major record of attacking civilian targets, whereas Israel does.

I acknowledge that Iran does fund Hamas though (since they admit to it), so I will concede that Iran sponsors terrorism abroad.

Ummmm world trade center in 93'? Somalian slaughter in 93? 92 hotel bombings in yemen? Come on bro..
US invasion
List of HEZ terrorist acts

• The 1982–1983 Tyre headquarters bombings

• The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization),[196]

• The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization), that killed 241 U.S. marines, 58 French paratroopers and 6 civilians at the US and French barracks in Beirut[197]

• The 1983 Kuwait bombings in collaboration with the Iraqi Dawa Party.[198]

• The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing, killing 24.[199]

• A spate of attacks on IDF troops and SLA militiamen in southern Lebanon.[62]

• Hijacking of TWA Flight 847 in 1985,[197]

• The Lebanon hostage crisis from 1982 to 1992.[200]

Since 1990, terror acts and attempts of which Hezbollah has been blamed include the following bombings and attacks against civilians and diplomats:

• The 1992 Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires, killing 29, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah operatives boasted of involvement.[201]
• The 1994 AMIA bombing of a Jewish cultural centre, killing 85, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]
• The 1994 AC Flight 901 attack, killing 21, in Panama.[202] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]
• The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack, injuring 29, in the United Kingdom.[203]
• The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 US servicemen.[204]
• Providing "direct assistance" to al Qaeda, including training and explosives, in orchestrating the 1998 United States embassy bombings.[205]
• In 2002, Singapore accused Hezbollah of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits.[206]
• The January 15, 2008, bombing of a U.S. Embassy vehicle in Beirut.[207]
• In 2009, a Hezbollah plot in Egypt was uncovered, where Egyptian authorities arrested 49 men for planning attacks against Israeli and Egyptian targets in the Sinai Peninsula.[208]
• The 2012 Burgas bus bombing, killing 6, in Bulgaria.[209]
• Training Shia insurgents against US troops during the Iraq War.[210]

 

[Onyx]

As great amounts of WWII bombing was not against military targets, it has to have been to demoralize/terrorize the bombed nation.

It is a military tactic known as saturation bombing.

It is fucking wrong, but half the generals will apologize for it with bullshit excuses, like "Sometimes we have to make tough decisions," "There is always collateral in war," and "What we did was nessecary"

 

[Divine Wind]

I don't either and I don't think there has to be a scenario like that for my opinion to be truth. It only takes one. Everyone thought it was bullshit turkey was smuggling ISIS oil, too. "That would have to be one huge conspiracy!" evidently not...

It takes a lot of people to make a supply drop. There are a lot of "eyes" on everything flying in the area. Sorry, dude, but it would take more than just "one" to support such a conspiracy theory.

We aren't supplying ISIS intentionally. If fuck ups are made and ISIS captures some supply drops, that's just war.

BTW, Turkey isn't the United States of America.

 

[TNHarley]

I don't either and I don't think there has to be a scenario like that for my opinion to be truth. It only takes one. Everyone thought it was bullshit turkey was smuggling ISIS oil, too. "That would have to be one huge conspiracy!" evidently not...

It takes a lot of people to make a supply drop. There are a lot of "eyes" on everything flying in the area. Sorry, dude, but it would take more than just "one" to support such a conspiracy theory.

We aren't supplying ISIS intentionally. If fuck ups are made and ISIS captures some supply drops, that's just war.

BTW, Turkey isn't the United States of America.

I just don't agree.
I know they aren't, it was just an example. What if those guys thought they were dropping it off to the right people? What if they were told wrong? Too many possibilities and I pay attention to our history, so I doubt our integrity.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

Bill Clinton’s Act of Terrorism | Jacobin Before fourteen cruise missiles turned it into a heap of twisted steel and medical detritus, the Al Shifa factory in Khartoum was the largest manufacturer of medicines in all of Sudan, producing over half of the country’s pharmaceutical products and specializing in anti-malaria drugs. But on August 20, 1998, the plant was “pulverized,” reduced to nothing but “broken concrete and iron bars,” leaving “thousands of brown bottles of veterinary and other medicines” littered across the sand. Fourteen years later, its wreckage remained, a shrine to an incident that locals still refer to as a terrorist attack. Must admit that it was either wag the dog or get caught with DNA on a blue dress. The blue dress showed up anyway. You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's. Now you commies are trying to destroy the US from within. Sorry but 70% of US citizens don't like it and wont allow you to finish.

WTF are you talking about?

How did you get from defending the Contras to talking about Monica Lewinsky and a liberal-communist agenda?

You hate Reagan because he helped destroy the Commies in the 1980's.

I hate Reagan because he fueled the military-industrial complex and spread terror across the third world.

His interventions directly contributed to several populist dictatorships that are still around today.

If it wasn't for Jimmy Carter not going in and Bombing the excrement out of Iran, all the dominos fell for Radical Muslims to grow. How do I know that, I was in Germany with F-4's fully loaded to turn Iran into a glass parking lot. Jimmy the spineless Carter gave the stand down signal sent in rescue copters which failed and all that has been forgotten in time, because commies like you want to change history. I just wont let you.

I talked about a TERRORIST whom you would vote for the wife of, just so more Radical Muslims can come to the US and kill more, men, women and children, and Gays also. Obama is the best Muslim Terrorist that has been created by you lefties, for he almost successful destroy the US. He just ran out of time.

 

[Divine Wind]

BTW, how come no one on this forum, especially Onyx, hasn't mentioned that the most common weapons being used by terrorists around the world are of Soviet/Russian manufacture? AK-47s, Semtex, RPGs, etc.

The most common weapon in the hands of ISIS are AK-47s. In the hands of Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists are AK-47s. Why are there no accusations of State terrorism against Russia?

 

[Onyx]

• The 1982–1983 Tyre headquarters bombings

• The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization),[196]

• The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization), that killed 241 U.S. marines, 58 French paratroopers and 6 civilians at the US and French barracks in Beirut[197]

• The 1983 Kuwait bombings in collaboration with the Iraqi Dawa Party.[198]

• The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing, killing 24.[199]

• A spate of attacks on IDF troops and SLA militiamen in southern Lebanon.[62]

None of these are terrorist attacks.

They were all undertaken against state targets, not civilians. Hezbollah is also not the same thing as the Islamic Jihad Organization.

• The 1994 AMIA bombing of a Jewish cultural centre, killing 85, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]
  [*]The 1994 AC Flight 901 attack, killing 21, in Panama.[202] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]

• These ARE terrorist attacks. Cannot really defend those.

Since 1990, terror acts and attempts of which Hezbollah has been blamed include the following bombings and attacks against civilians and diplomats:

• The 1992 Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires, killing 29, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah operatives boasted of involvement.[201]
• The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack, injuring 29, in the United Kingdom.[203]
• The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 US servicemen.[204]
• Providing "direct assistance" to al Qaeda, including training and explosives, in orchestrating the 1998 United States embassy bombings.[205]
• In 2002, Singapore accused Hezbollah of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits.[206]
• The January 15, 2008, bombing of a U.S. Embassy vehicle in Beirut.[207]
• In 2009, a Hezbollah plot in Egypt was uncovered, where Egyptian authorities arrested 49 men for planning attacks against Israeli and Egyptian targets in the Sinai Peninsula.[208]
• The 2012 Burgas bus bombing, killing 6, in Bulgaria.[209]
• Training Shia insurgents against US troops during the Iraq War.[210]

These are also not terrorist attacks.

Again, there is a distinction between state and civilian targets, unless killing soldiers and government officials is to be considered terrorism.

 

[Onyx]

If it wasn't for Jimmy Carter not going in and Bombing the excrement out of Iran, all the dominos fell for Radical Muslims to grow. How do I know that, I was in German with F-4's fully loaded to turn Iran into a glass parking lot. Jimmy the spineless Carter gave the stand down signal sent in rescue copters which failed and all that has been forgotten in time, because commies like you want to change history. I just wont let you.

I talked about a TERRORIST whom you would vote for the wife of, just so more Radical Muslims can come to the US and kill more, men, women and children, and Gays also. Obama is the best Muslim Terrorist that has been created by you lefties, for he almost successful destroy the US. He just ran out of time.

- I do not like Jimmy Carter

- I am not voting for Hillary Clinton

- I do not support fundamentalist Islam

- I do not like Barack Obama

- I am not a leftist

Would you l stop deflecting and making the debate about me? If not, could you at least stop strawmanning my beliefs?

 

[TNHarley]

• The 1982–1983 Tyre headquarters bombings

• The April 1983 U.S. Embassy bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization),[196]

• The 1983 Beirut barracks bombing (by the Islamic Jihad Organization), that killed 241 U.S. marines, 58 French paratroopers and 6 civilians at the US and French barracks in Beirut[197]

• The 1983 Kuwait bombings in collaboration with the Iraqi Dawa Party.[198]

• The 1984 United States embassy annex bombing, killing 24.[199]

• A spate of attacks on IDF troops and SLA militiamen in southern Lebanon.[62]

None of these are terrorist attacks.

They were all undertaken against state targets, not civilians. Hezbollah is also not the same thing as the Islamic Jihad Organization.

• The 1994 AMIA bombing of a Jewish cultural centre, killing 85, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]
  [*]The 1994 AC Flight 901 attack, killing 21, in Panama.[202] Hezbollah claimed responsibility.[201]

• These ARE terrorist attacks. Cannot really defend those.

Since 1990, terror acts and attempts of which Hezbollah has been blamed include the following bombings and attacks against civilians and diplomats:

• The 1992 Israeli Embassy attack in Buenos Aires, killing 29, in Argentina.[197] Hezbollah operatives boasted of involvement.[201]
• The 1994 London Israeli Embassy attack, injuring 29, in the United Kingdom.[203]
• The 1996 Khobar Towers bombing, killing 19 US servicemen.[204]
• Providing "direct assistance" to al Qaeda, including training and explosives, in orchestrating the 1998 United States embassy bombings.[205]
• In 2002, Singapore accused Hezbollah of recruiting Singaporeans in a failed 1990s plot to attack U.S. and Israeli ships in the Singapore Straits.[206]
• The January 15, 2008, bombing of a U.S. Embassy vehicle in Beirut.[207]
• In 2009, a Hezbollah plot in Egypt was uncovered, where Egyptian authorities arrested 49 men for planning attacks against Israeli and Egyptian targets in the Sinai Peninsula.[208]
• The 2012 Burgas bus bombing, killing 6, in Bulgaria.[209]
• Training Shia insurgents against US troops during the Iraq War.[210]

These are also not terrorist attacks.

Again, there is a distinction between state and civilian targets, unless killing soldiers and government officials is to be considered terrorism.

Pay more attention to the list. For example the 1983 Kuwait bombings happened at civilian airports and a chemical plant. But you make a good point about several of them. But I think my point stands...

 

[Onyx]

BTW, how come no one on this forum, especially Onyx, hasn't mentioned that the most common weapons being used by terrorists around the world are of Soviet/Russian manufacture? AK-47s, Semtex, RPGs, etc.

The most common weapon in the hands of ISIS are AK-47s. In the hands of Hamas and other Palestinian terrorists are AK-47s. Why are there no accusations of State terrorism against Russia?

Because I am not a Russophillic tool trying to win points for my side.

 

[Onyx]

Pay more attention to the list. For example the 1983 Kuwait bombings happened at civilian airports and a chemical plant. But you make a good point about several of them. But I think my point stands...

I acknowledge that Hezbollah does not have their hands clean. Even adding one more item to the two things I did give them credit for would still make them look like saints compared to all the other faction in the region.

With that said, I already conceded that Iran is sponsoring terrorism abroad. You convinced me.