Starbucks must be getting hammered

[hadit]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

Take the recent white cop/black suspect interactions that have everyone hot and bothered. One side wants to talk about how they feel they are unfairly targeted for police scrutiny. That's a fair subject to talk about, and needs to be addressed. When a white cop, however, has his life destroyed as a racist even though he did things by the book and isn't racist, something's wrong. Even today, if you ask some people if "hands up, don't shoot" actually happened, they will say it did and be very angry about it. So yes, information DOES provoke emotional reactions. Again, is a white barrista allowed to open a racial conversation with a black customer, expressing traditionally "white" views in order to bring understanding and enlightenment to the black customer, or are only white customers supposed to get "understanding and enlightenment"? These are valid questions, and your likely immediate reaction to reading this ought to tell you something about how you're approaching the subject.

 

[Asclepias]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

This coming from someone who supports hate of all white people.....

You must have never talked to me which is pretty much the point of what Starbucks was trying to foster.

Never talked.....you were all over the thread supporting miss I hate all whites and it was all good to you

Who are you talking about? I have a white god daughter I love like one of my own so it would be weird for me to hate all whites.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

This coming from someone who supports hate of all white people.....

You must have never talked to me which is pretty much the point of what Starbucks was trying to foster.

What info could they provide that isn't known?

You dont know...thats the problem. Also your violent / flippant reaction to any discussion on race.

Well I see you don't provide any but hit the whine button first chance....mommy he microaggressed me

See? And I havent even started and this guy is already upset

 

[Manonthestreet]

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

This coming from someone who supports hate of all white people.....

You must have never talked to me which is pretty much the point of what Starbucks was trying to foster.

Never talked.....you were all over the thread supporting miss I hate all whites and it was all good to you

Who are you talking about? I have a white god daughter I love like one of my own so it would be weird for me to hate all whites.

Talking bout you and everyone saw it.....guess you forgot all includes them

 

[Manonthestreet]

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

This coming from someone who supports hate of all white people.....

You must have never talked to me which is pretty much the point of what Starbucks was trying to foster.

What info could they provide that isn't known?

You dont know...thats the problem. Also your violent / flippant reaction to any discussion on race.

Well I see you don't provide any but hit the whine button first chance....mommy he microaggressed me

See? And I havent even started and this guy is already upset

Really....violent.....point out the violence.........allya got is false accusations which is gee what ya used against Wilson

 

[Roadrunner]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites, are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

I have no problem discussing race here with you, in a discussion forum.

I'd tell you to fuck yourself if you were a waitperson and brought it up at my table.

I know. The other part of that assertion is that whites talk a great deal online about race. In public they get silent.

Polite people do not discuss race, religion, politics or money with strangers in public.

 

[Asclepias]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites, are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

I have no problem discussing race here with you, in a discussion forum.

I'd tell you to fuck yourself if you were a waitperson and brought it up at my table.

I know. The other part of that assertion is that whites talk a great deal online about race. In public they get silent.

Polite people do not discuss race, religion, politics or money with strangers in public.

Who told you that?

 

[hadit]

That's what I mean. White America is assumed to be racist in far too many of these situations.

Doesnt matter whats assumed. Talking tends to clear that up. People can see your point of view.

Actually, it DOES matter what's being assumed. Is it assumed that the barristas are going to start the conversation from the same POV? IOW, if a white barrista opens the conversation with a black customer by stating that he/she believes the plight of the young American black male has deeper roots in the breakdown of the American family than it does in anti-black American racism, is that considered a "conversation about race", or is the barrista going to be reviled as a racist? Or, as I believe to be the case, is the barrista expected to start the conversation from the POV that black Americans are discriminated against and their plight is solely, or mostly, due to racism?

No it doesnt matter. If you cant have a conversation with someone that has a different point of view you may as well turn in your adulthood card and get some remedial training on how to articulate your thoughts. Conversations between people with different points of view ultimately render at least a better understanding of the other side of the issue. For instance in your mock assertion regarding the Black family, I would ask if you thought the family breakdown was caused by racist policies.

And I would say no, because the breakdown in the American family is not restricted to black families. It is WORSE among the black community, but is not exclusive to it. Now, I would love to have these kinds of conversations with individuals, but what happens to a lot of people is the very public and ugly reactions when these kinds of things are voiced. They are then, as intended, silenced on the subject because they rightly think the deck is stacked against them from the start. To even give voice to some of these things is to invite screams of "racist".

I would disagree with your view of the issue and point out that shit rolls downhill which affects the people at the bottom of social ladder more adversely than anyone else even if its not being done intentionally which is still racism.

You do know, don't you, that prior to the Civil Rights era, the black family was much stronger than it is today, even though they were kept at the bottom of the social ladder to a much greater extent than today, and deliberately so?

I find that people talking in public have a tendency to be way more polite as in the case of my talk with the guy that was in the KKK. After talking to him I found out the reason he was in the KKK was because one of his aunts married a Black guy that beat his cousins all the time.

Of course public conversations are more polite, that's not the point. The point is, as I said, it this a real conversation where all viewpoints are valid, or are some more valid than others?

 

[Asclepias]

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

This coming from someone who supports hate of all white people.....

You must have never talked to me which is pretty much the point of what Starbucks was trying to foster.

Never talked.....you were all over the thread supporting miss I hate all whites and it was all good to you

Who are you talking about? I have a white god daughter I love like one of my own so it would be weird for me to hate all whites.

Talking bout you and everyone saw it.....guess you forgot all includes them

You said I was supporting "miss i hate all whites". Who were you referring to?

 

[hadit]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

I go back to my primary assertion. Whites, actually racist whites, are full of fear regarding the expression of their views. They dont want understanding or resolution. They want chaos because chaos makes them feel genetically comfortable.

I have no problem discussing race here with you, in a discussion forum.

I'd tell you to fuck yourself if you were a waitperson and brought it up at my table.

I know. The other part of that assertion is that whites talk a great deal online about race. In public they get silent.

Polite people do not discuss race, religion, politics or money with strangers in public.

In many places, you can include sports in that list.

 

[Stephanie]

What info could they provide that isn't known?

exactly. I'm so sick of having them beat us over the head about race. I'm 60 years old, I don't need anyone provide me info on this topic. We the American people has bent over backwards trying to give minorities a hand up. with affirmative action FOR ONE and now it's still being shoved in our face

And I don't want to pay 6 bucks for a cup of COFFEE and then be lectured by a 16 year old kid. because the one where I live only kids work there

 

[Asclepias]

Doesnt matter whats assumed. Talking tends to clear that up. People can see your point of view.

Actually, it DOES matter what's being assumed. Is it assumed that the barristas are going to start the conversation from the same POV? IOW, if a white barrista opens the conversation with a black customer by stating that he/she believes the plight of the young American black male has deeper roots in the breakdown of the American family than it does in anti-black American racism, is that considered a "conversation about race", or is the barrista going to be reviled as a racist? Or, as I believe to be the case, is the barrista expected to start the conversation from the POV that black Americans are discriminated against and their plight is solely, or mostly, due to racism?

No it doesnt matter. If you cant have a conversation with someone that has a different point of view you may as well turn in your adulthood card and get some remedial training on how to articulate your thoughts. Conversations between people with different points of view ultimately render at least a better understanding of the other side of the issue. For instance in your mock assertion regarding the Black family, I would ask if you thought the family breakdown was caused by racist policies.

And I would say no, because the breakdown in the American family is not restricted to black families. It is WORSE among the black community, but is not exclusive to it. Now, I would love to have these kinds of conversations with individuals, but what happens to a lot of people is the very public and ugly reactions when these kinds of things are voiced. They are then, as intended, silenced on the subject because they rightly think the deck is stacked against them from the start. To even give voice to some of these things is to invite screams of "racist".

I would disagree with your view of the issue and point out that shit rolls downhill which affects the people at the bottom of social ladder more adversely than anyone else even if its not being done intentionally which is still racism.

You do know, don't you, that prior to the Civil Rights era, the black family was much stronger than it is today, even though they were kept at the bottom of the social ladder to a much greater extent than today, and deliberately so?

I find that people talking in public have a tendency to be way more polite as in the case of my talk with the guy that was in the KKK. After talking to him I found out the reason he was in the KKK was because one of his aunts married a Black guy that beat his cousins all the time.

Of course public conversations are more polite, that's not the point. The point is, as I said, it this a real conversation where all viewpoints are valid, or are some more valid than others?

You do know prior to civil rights that the Black population was kept under control legally by Jim Crow? Once Jim Crow was dismantled a new way of controlling the Black population was needed. Fast forward today and you can see the effects of increased policing, discriminatory incarceration rates, introduction of drugs into the Black community etc etc.

Actually that was the point. You claimed there would be ugly reactions. Why wouldnt it be a real conversation? I would tell you exactly the same thing I would tell you here online.

 

[ClosedCaption]

I believe that the entire effort is packaged dishonestly. Did they REALLY want a discussion on race, or did they just want yet another platform from which to lecture white America about guilt they are supposed to be feeling? The former, a good thing. The latter, not so much.

Why is understanding or enlightenment never the issue with whites. The only options they ever see is

1. Dont talk about race

or

2. Talk about it and a supposed guilt is involved

Instead of you know, increasing awareness and stuff. You act as if information is supposed to have an emotional reaction

Take the recent white cop/black suspect interactions that have everyone hot and bothered. One side wants to talk about how they feel they are unfairly targeted for police scrutiny. That's a fair subject to talk about, and needs to be addressed.

Thats how white people address it tho. They say "Fair point, that should be discussed" and then move to another point lol.

When a white cop, however, has his life destroyed as a racist even though he did things by the book and isn't racist, something's wrong. Even today, if you ask some people if "hands up, don't shoot" actually happened, they will say it did and be very angry about it. So yes, information DOES provoke emotional reactions.

The report never dealt with whether his hands were up or not. I wish you guys would stop saying that because it flat out not true. The only thing you can say is that some witness said his hands werent up but another witness says they were.

Yes, people are very angry about it. You see, you think this is about a slogan. You stepped right over the body to complain about a slogan. People were so offended by stores being looted more than they were by a dead teenager. So yes, people are angry but not from the slogan, from actual events you choose to ignore

Again, is a white barrista allowed to open a racial conversation with a black customer, expressing traditionally "white" views in order to bring understanding and enlightenment to the black customer, or are only white customers supposed to get "understanding and enlightenment"?

Dude, do you want to pretend that whites are some misunderstood people? Or that your plight should be shared with minorties? Ok, thats fine but heres a question for you.

Why? The only answer you can possibly have is revenge.

These are valid questions, and your likely immediate reaction to reading this ought to tell you something about how you're approaching the subject.

Again. The reasons blacks feel this convo is needed is because many whites have no idea the issues or problems that exist in the black community. Tell me, What issues or problems do whites have that blacks dont know exist?

When you cant answer that question that shows how that conversation isnt wanted, needed or required by anyone. Its just a slick comeback. Its like I give a dog a bone and you say "Why cant I have one?"

You dont really want it, you're just complaining

 

[High_Gravity]

Buck Starfucks.

 

[hadit]

Actually, it DOES matter what's being assumed. Is it assumed that the barristas are going to start the conversation from the same POV? IOW, if a white barrista opens the conversation with a black customer by stating that he/she believes the plight of the young American black male has deeper roots in the breakdown of the American family than it does in anti-black American racism, is that considered a "conversation about race", or is the barrista going to be reviled as a racist? Or, as I believe to be the case, is the barrista expected to start the conversation from the POV that black Americans are discriminated against and their plight is solely, or mostly, due to racism?

No it doesnt matter. If you cant have a conversation with someone that has a different point of view you may as well turn in your adulthood card and get some remedial training on how to articulate your thoughts. Conversations between people with different points of view ultimately render at least a better understanding of the other side of the issue. For instance in your mock assertion regarding the Black family, I would ask if you thought the family breakdown was caused by racist policies.

And I would say no, because the breakdown in the American family is not restricted to black families. It is WORSE among the black community, but is not exclusive to it. Now, I would love to have these kinds of conversations with individuals, but what happens to a lot of people is the very public and ugly reactions when these kinds of things are voiced. They are then, as intended, silenced on the subject because they rightly think the deck is stacked against them from the start. To even give voice to some of these things is to invite screams of "racist".

I would disagree with your view of the issue and point out that shit rolls downhill which affects the people at the bottom of social ladder more adversely than anyone else even if its not being done intentionally which is still racism.

You do know, don't you, that prior to the Civil Rights era, the black family was much stronger than it is today, even though they were kept at the bottom of the social ladder to a much greater extent than today, and deliberately so?

I find that people talking in public have a tendency to be way more polite as in the case of my talk with the guy that was in the KKK. After talking to him I found out the reason he was in the KKK was because one of his aunts married a Black guy that beat his cousins all the time.

Of course public conversations are more polite, that's not the point. The point is, as I said, it this a real conversation where all viewpoints are valid, or are some more valid than others?

You do know prior to civil rights that the Black population was kept under control legally by Jim Crow? Once Jim Crow was dismantled a new way of controlling the Black population was needed. Fast forward today and you can see the effects of increased policing, discriminatory incarceration rates, introduction of drugs into the Black community etc etc.

Those things would not cause the family to break down. As for incarceration rates, you have to account for the entire panoply of effects, not just assume racism caused it. Of course, there has been residual racism. I wouldn't dispute that because attitudes don't change overnight. BUT, they DO change, and to continually approach white Americans as if they all still have the attitudes of white Americans from decades ago is no better than white Americans assuming every black man they see is a thug.

Actually that was the point. You claimed there would be ugly reactions. Why wouldnt it be a real conversation? I would tell you exactly the same thing I would tell you here online.

Such conversations are necessary, let there be no doubt about that. Having one with a person who has control over the quality of your coffee is not the best place way to accomplish it.

 

[blastoff]

One thing that drives me nuts while waiting in line at Starbucks and other places is the increased waiting time while other customers and the staff chit chat back and forth about things rather than trying to complete their transactions as quickly as possible to keep the line moving, resulting in less wait time for everyone else.

So my first thought with this idiocy was egads! Now they're going to encourage the staff to engage in conversations not remotely related to a customer's order. I don't care if they'd be talking about race, a ball game, so-and-so's pregnancy or anything else. But whatever it is it slows down the process.

 

[bodecea]

I find it puzzling with all the folks who insist they never go to Starbucks how prevalent Starbucks is.....everywhere.

 

[ClosedCaption]

As for incarceration rates, you have to account for the entire panoply of effects, not just assume racism caused it. Of course, there has been residual racism.

Heres a rule I learned being here and around white people. Nothing, not one thing, not even burning a cross is 100% racist. Events are a lot of things...but events most definitely cannot be racist ever.

 

[Roadrunner]

I don't think there is one within 50 miles or more of where I live.

 

[Asclepias]

No it doesnt matter. If you cant have a conversation with someone that has a different point of view you may as well turn in your adulthood card and get some remedial training on how to articulate your thoughts. Conversations between people with different points of view ultimately render at least a better understanding of the other side of the issue. For instance in your mock assertion regarding the Black family, I would ask if you thought the family breakdown was caused by racist policies.

And I would say no, because the breakdown in the American family is not restricted to black families. It is WORSE among the black community, but is not exclusive to it. Now, I would love to have these kinds of conversations with individuals, but what happens to a lot of people is the very public and ugly reactions when these kinds of things are voiced. They are then, as intended, silenced on the subject because they rightly think the deck is stacked against them from the start. To even give voice to some of these things is to invite screams of "racist".

I would disagree with your view of the issue and point out that shit rolls downhill which affects the people at the bottom of social ladder more adversely than anyone else even if its not being done intentionally which is still racism.

You do know, don't you, that prior to the Civil Rights era, the black family was much stronger than it is today, even though they were kept at the bottom of the social ladder to a much greater extent than today, and deliberately so?

I find that people talking in public have a tendency to be way more polite as in the case of my talk with the guy that was in the KKK. After talking to him I found out the reason he was in the KKK was because one of his aunts married a Black guy that beat his cousins all the time.

Of course public conversations are more polite, that's not the point. The point is, as I said, it this a real conversation where all viewpoints are valid, or are some more valid than others?

You do know prior to civil rights that the Black population was kept under control legally by Jim Crow? Once Jim Crow was dismantled a new way of controlling the Black population was needed. Fast forward today and you can see the effects of increased policing, discriminatory incarceration rates, introduction of drugs into the Black community etc etc.

Those things would not cause the family to break down. As for incarceration rates, you have to account for the entire panoply of effects, not just assume racism caused it. Of course, there has been residual racism. I wouldn't dispute that because attitudes don't change overnight. BUT, they DO change, and to continually approach white Americans as if they all still have the attitudes of white Americans from decades ago is no better than white Americans assuming every black man they see is a thug.

Actually that was the point. You claimed there would be ugly reactions. Why wouldnt it be a real conversation? I would tell you exactly the same thing I would tell you here online.

Such conversations are necessary, let there be no doubt about that. Having one with a person who has control over the quality of your coffee is not the best place way to accomplish it.

See this is why its important to have these conversations. I am astounded you actually said increased policing, drugs, and higher incarceration rates would not break down families. At this point I would question your intellect and probably assume you were racist.

Its a starting place and you actually have no clue on what is best or not. Some of my best ideas and enlightenment come from situations I would never expect.