Stand with Israel

[aris2chat]

No one takes pictures of their vacation, or places they're showing off to their friends featuring the slums and says "Wish you were here." I'm sure North Korea has some nice spots too if you ignored the not-nice parts.

The most shocking thing for me when I visited the US, was(a)the amount of Homeless people (b) the fact that most other people dont care
America's homeless: The rise of Tent City, USA - May. 16, 2014

Trying to find a quote from "The West Wing" where someone says "No politician wants to talk about helping the poor and homeless, but without talking about it you can't." Or something to that effect. Sounds about right. A real politician isn't going to do very well swearing up and down they'll help the poor or homeless, but if no one ever talks about it, or campagins on it no one ever will.

The West Wing - Wikiquote

 

[MHunterB]

I generally eschew states with state religions. It's sort of un-American. not that I'd dispute that Hamas is a terror organization first and foremost, and political party secondarily.

So you do not stand with the UK (C of E) or with Austria (RCC)?

 

[bendog]

I think Turkey's fairly successful. Nato membership. Although Turkey has evolved from the Ottomans and Byzantiem. So, whether it's comparable to .... the Saudis ... I dunno.

Did you seriously say Turkey? The country that is 99% one sect of one religion (Sunni Islam)! A country that massacres and persecutes a vulnerable minority (Kurds). A country that still occupies Cypress! A country that is ruled by an Islamist! A country that still threatens and messes with their smaller Christian neighbor of Armenia! A country that STILL TO THIS DAY denies the Armenian Genocide!

That Turkey?

Sadly, I'd say the former Baath states of Iraq and Syria posed the best options, that's all-ah-mucky.

No they possessed as a better not best option!



LOL, you must be a leftist, because you have low expectation if you measure them as successful!

Jordan is evolving, but there again the Jewish state has led to problems with popular representation.

Please explain, I bet you can't in an intelligent way. Since they have made peace, not ONE problem Jordan has can be pinned on the Jews. They can pin their problems on their Palestinian MAJORITY!!!

However, I don't think you can argue Israel is anymore accepting of Intl Law than anyone else in the region. I think we'd agree that Putin is democratically elected, though in a flawed election, but arguing we have anything in common with that govt would be distasteful, imo.

They full provide, freedom of religion, free press, free speech, a FULL Democracy (where everyone get one vote), they protect private property, everyone has free access to courts, they have more religious minorities in their Parliament then they entire Arab (minus Lebanon), Turkish and Persian world. They fully protect minority, elderly, women and gay rights!

Only a trust mental midget would say they don't respect international laws more than any state in the region!

Fk you. You want civil debate, don't neg rep me with uncivil insults.

 

[bendog]

I generally eschew states with state religions. It's sort of un-American. not that I'd dispute that Hamas is a terror organization first and foremost, and political party secondarily.

So you do not stand with the UK (C of E) or with Austria (RCC)?

Well, if you read my post, you'd see I explicitly stated the UK is a state religion in name only. It's really an historical oddity. As is Australia. There's religious freedom.

Contrast that to .... Iran.

Jews have more rights in Israel than other folks. I don't see that as being on a similar path to the US, where the founders explicitly rejected any second class status towards muslims (though the only muslims were probably slaves).

And Israel appropriates land.

And Hamas is a terrorist organization.

 

[MHunterB]

I keep hearing that 'Jews have more rights than other folks' in Israel do - but nobody can seem to show me the laws in their books which enforce any such thing.

Perhaps if you were to be specific, we could examine those situations and understand what is true and what is misconception?

I see someone else has already covered the 'non-Jews aren't allowed to buy land in Israel' misrepresentation. Incidentally, not only HAMAS but the PA has a law on its books prescribing the death penalty for anyone under its rule selling land to a Jew (not a 'Zionist', a Jew).

Some people have the mistaken idea that the 'right of return' would allow any Jew from anywhere in the world to go to Israel and be immediately made a citizen - that is far from true.

Nor, btw, is Israel unique among nations for having legislated an 'express lane' for people of the 'right' background. MANY other nations do something quite similar - Germany being one. KSA and some other 'very conservative' Arab nations, forbid citizenship to any but Muslims.

Having discussed all of that, I believe the OP's intent may have been more like "If you have a preference or an inclination to favor Israel or the Palestinians (not necessarily limited to HAMAS) at the current time, what is your basis for doing so?" And that the OP is looking to ignore the 'automatic' support/opposition due to some religious or other 'affiliation'.

 

[montelatici]

I keep hearing that 'Jews have more rights than other folks' in Israel do - but nobody can seem to show me the laws in their books which enforce any such thing.

Perhaps if you were to be specific, we could examine those situations and understand what is true and what is misconception?

I see someone else has already covered the 'non-Jews aren't allowed to buy land in Israel' misrepresentation. Incidentally, not only HAMAS but the PA has a law on its books prescribing the death penalty for anyone under its rule selling land to a Jew (not a 'Zionist', a Jew).

Some people have the mistaken idea that the 'right of return' would allow any Jew from anywhere in the world to go to Israel and be immediately made a citizen - that is far from true.

Nor, btw, is Israel unique among nations for having legislated an 'express lane' for people of the 'right' background. MANY other nations do something quite similar - Germany being one. KSA and some other 'very conservative' Arab nations, forbid citizenship to any but Muslims.

Having discussed all of that, I believe the OP's intent may have been more like "If you have a preference or an inclination to favor Israel or the Palestinians (not necessarily limited to HAMAS) at the current time, what is your basis for doing so?" And that the OP is looking to ignore the 'automatic' support/opposition due to some religious or other 'affiliation'.

Discriminatory Laws in Israel

Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel

 

[bendog]

I keep hearing that 'Jews have more rights than other folks' in Israel do - but nobody can seem to show me the laws in their books which enforce any such thing.

Perhaps if you were to be specific, we could examine those situations and understand what is true and what is misconception?

I see someone else has already covered the 'non-Jews aren't allowed to buy land in Israel' misrepresentation. Incidentally, not only HAMAS but the PA has a law on its books prescribing the death penalty for anyone under its rule selling land to a Jew (not a 'Zionist', a Jew).

Some people have the mistaken idea that the 'right of return' would allow any Jew from anywhere in the world to go to Israel and be immediately made a citizen - that is far from true.

Nor, btw, is Israel unique among nations for having legislated an 'express lane' for people of the 'right' background. MANY other nations do something quite similar - Germany being one. KSA and some other 'very conservative' Arab nations, forbid citizenship to any but Muslims.

Having discussed all of that, I believe the OP's intent may have been more like "If you have a preference or an inclination to favor Israel or the Palestinians (not necessarily limited to HAMAS) at the current time, what is your basis for doing so?" And that the OP is looking to ignore the 'automatic' support/opposition due to some religious or other 'affiliation'.

Discriminatory Laws in Israel

Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel

I'm not playing his dissemble games. Hamas is a terrorist organization though.

 

[Beelzebub]

I'm not playing his dissemble games. Hamas is a terrorist organization though.

Hard to disagree with, as there is no universally agreed definition of 'terrorist'.

If it comes to applying terror to try to meet its political and military ends the IDF is a master of this. So is Fox News.

The important thing is that Hamas is neither unreasonable, irrational nor closed to non-military pressure, to talks nor to genuine deals done in good faith.

The general meme that Hamas are Terrorists and Terrorists are Demons, only works in America where people have very poor education, or very intense indoctrination.
(And Israel of course, where half the population are rabid mad murderers).

 

[docmauser1]

Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel[/url]

An arab supremacism-promoting outfit with a shady financing, of course.

 

[docmauser1]

The important thing is that Hamas is neither unreasonable, irrational nor closed to non-military pressure, to talks nor to genuine deals done in good faith.

Did they convert to christianity to fit the description?

 

[GHook93]

Jews have more rights in Israel than other folks. I don't see that as being on a similar path to the US, where the founders explicitly rejected any second class status towards muslims (though the only muslims were probably slaves).

That is simply no true. The law in fact does treat Jews (and Druze) differently. They have to do their time in the military and it's optional for Muslims. That is the ONLY difference! Other than that every citizen has each rights!

And Israel appropriates land.

First every country in the world appropriates land. It is an outright fabrication that Israel will take an non-Jews land and give it to a Jew. That doesn't happen, even if it should. Israel should kick every Muslim out of at least Jerusalem. I would also say out of all of Israel, but that would be too much to ask for!

And Hamas is a terrorist organization.

I have no doubt you tossed this in their as an attempt to be impartial!

 

[GHook93]

I keep hearing that 'Jews have more rights than other folks' in Israel do - but nobody can seem to show me the laws in their books which enforce any such thing.

Perhaps if you were to be specific, we could examine those situations and understand what is true and what is misconception?

I see someone else has already covered the 'non-Jews aren't allowed to buy land in Israel' misrepresentation. Incidentally, not only HAMAS but the PA has a law on its books prescribing the death penalty for anyone under its rule selling land to a Jew (not a 'Zionist', a Jew).

Some people have the mistaken idea that the 'right of return' would allow any Jew from anywhere in the world to go to Israel and be immediately made a citizen - that is far from true.

Nor, btw, is Israel unique among nations for having legislated an 'express lane' for people of the 'right' background. MANY other nations do something quite similar - Germany being one. KSA and some other 'very conservative' Arab nations, forbid citizenship to any but Muslims.

Having discussed all of that, I believe the OP's intent may have been more like "If you have a preference or an inclination to favor Israel or the Palestinians (not necessarily limited to HAMAS) at the current time, what is your basis for doing so?" And that the OP is looking to ignore the 'automatic' support/opposition due to some religious or other 'affiliation'.

Discriminatory Laws in Israel

Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel

Yea because that source is creditable. I guess one can make up anything and if you hate the Jews you will just believe it!

 

[GHook93]

The important thing is that Hamas is neither unreasonable, irrational nor closed to non-military pressure, to talks nor to genuine deals done in good faith.

The general meme that Hamas are Terrorists and Terrorists are Demons, only works in America where people have very poor education, or very intense indoctrination.
(And Israel of course, where half the population are rabid mad murderers).

 

[toastman]

You are a stupid **** and a disgrace. You say support Israel and they slander her with you uneducated ANTISEMITISM (yep some of the worse antisemites are uneducated leftist Jews).

They don't squash dissenting opinion. In fact, they have members of Parliament that are Arabs that actively state their goal is to destroy Israel (Zobia). They have free press, free religion, free exercise of expression and all are protected under the law. Islam is just as protected in Islam as Judaism. They don't squash different lifestyle, the only place in the middle east they have gay pride parades is in Israel. You could feel at home there. Orthodox Jews have strict dress code, yet the only place in the middle east that doesn't have modesty police is Israel. Women are free, and god bless them, to dress as slutty ad they want.

Get your fags straight you brain-dead douche bag!

WTF is wrong with you???

Misread his post. He usually is bashing Israel and claiming to be a Jew! I did delete the post.

You definitely have him mixed up with someone else

 

[toastman]

I'm not playing his dissemble games. Hamas is a terrorist organization though.

Hard to disagree with, as there is no universally agreed definition of 'terrorist'.

If it comes to applying terror to try to meet its political and military ends the IDF is a master of this. So is Fox News.

The important thing is that Hamas is neither unreasonable, irrational nor closed to non-military pressure, to talks nor to genuine deals done in good faith.

The general meme that Hamas are Terrorists and Terrorists are Demons, only works in America where people have very poor education, or very intense indoctrination.
(And Israel of course, where half the population are rabid mad murderers).

If you're going to make up stuff about Israel, at least try and make it believable

Why so you insist on making a fool of yourself? Is tour self esteem that low!

 

[toastman]

The important thing is that Hamas is neither unreasonable, irrational nor closed to non-military pressure, to talks nor to genuine deals done in good faith.

The general meme that Hamas are Terrorists and Terrorists are Demons, only works in America where people have very poor education, or very intense indoctrination.
(And Israel of course, where half the population are rabid mad murderers).

99% of his posts are B.S

 

[Daniyel]

I keep hearing that 'Jews have more rights than other folks' in Israel do - but nobody can seem to show me the laws in their books which enforce any such thing.

Perhaps if you were to be specific, we could examine those situations and understand what is true and what is misconception?

I see someone else has already covered the 'non-Jews aren't allowed to buy land in Israel' misrepresentation. Incidentally, not only HAMAS but the PA has a law on its books prescribing the death penalty for anyone under its rule selling land to a Jew (not a 'Zionist', a Jew).

Some people have the mistaken idea that the 'right of return' would allow any Jew from anywhere in the world to go to Israel and be immediately made a citizen - that is far from true.

Nor, btw, is Israel unique among nations for having legislated an 'express lane' for people of the 'right' background. MANY other nations do something quite similar - Germany being one. KSA and some other 'very conservative' Arab nations, forbid citizenship to any but Muslims.

Having discussed all of that, I believe the OP's intent may have been more like "If you have a preference or an inclination to favor Israel or the Palestinians (not necessarily limited to HAMAS) at the current time, what is your basis for doing so?" And that the OP is looking to ignore the 'automatic' support/opposition due to some religious or other 'affiliation'.

Discriminatory Laws in Israel

Adalah - The Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel

I thought we talked about it haven't we?

 

[bendog]

Well, I think the world would have been better off without a Jewish State, and allowing any Jew fast track immigration into the US, but that's hindsight. And I believe that Israel discriminates on the basis of religion, and it illegally appropriates land in the West Bank, neither of which my country does. I certainly don't support destroying Israel or any other nation. And Hamas is a terrorist organization.

 

[Daniyel]

Well, I think the world would have been better off without a Jewish State, and allowing any Jew fast track immigration into the US, but that's hindsight. And I believe that Israel discriminates on the basis of religion, and it illegally appropriates land in the West Bank, neither of which my country does. I certainly don't support destroying Israel or any other nation. And Hamas is a terrorist organization.

In first, Christian Arabs recognized as own minority | The Times of Israel

 

[LiberalMedia]

I don't stand "with Israel". I don't stand with anyone.

No one is right 100% of the time or wrong 100% of the time and by proclaiming you "stand with them" then you are also accepting and condoning what is wrong - or at best, turning a blind eye. Forcing a "you're either with us or against us" polarization is misguided.

There are no angels in this conflict.

"There is a peace to be found only on the other side of war. If that battle must come, I will fight it!" - King Arthur, "First Knight"

All war is unfortunate, but when your enemy is so wreckless and blinded by hate that they use their own people as human shields as they come for you, there's nothing to be done but defend yourself. And compared to the US, Israel's frequent use of advanced warnings for bombing targets is above and beyond the call. US never did that. Being in the US I didn't even know that was an option. US considered it in WWII for Hiroshima and Nagasaki but rejected the idea. And not coincidentally it was the Jewish scientists who made the bombs who suggested advanced notice be given of their imminent use.

So before being overly critical of Israel, take a look at your own country's way of conducting wars.

Before being overly critical of the Jewish scientists' efforts, take a look at your own country's history.

The leaflets WERE dropped, thanks to the success of those heroic Jewish scientists, and thanks to the progressiveness of the Democratic president of the time. You can read the full text of the leaflets, complete with warnings to "EVACUATE YOUR CITIES", here: Leaflets warning Japanese of Atomic Bomb, 1945 . Truman . WGBH American Experience | PBS

In addition, leaflets were dropped months in advance to warn Japanese civilians of incoming firebombs--not just the two occasions where atomic bombs were dropped.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombings_of_Hiroshima_and_Nagasaki#Leaflets

For several months, the U.S. had dropped more than 63 million leaflets across Japan warning civilians of air raids. Many Japanese cities suffered terrible damage from aerial bombings, some were as much as 97% destroyed. LeMay thought that this would increase the psychological impact of bombing, and reduce the stigma of area bombing cities. Even with the warnings, Japanese opposition to the war remained ineffective. In general, the Japanese regarded the leaflet messages as truthful, but anyone who was caught in possession of one was arrested.[84][85] Leaflet texts were prepared by recent Japanese prisoners of war because they were thought to be the best choice "to appeal to their compatriots".[86]

The more you know!