Stance on Gay Rights/ Marriage

[ABikerSailor]

There's a pretty simple solution to this problem.......

First off, acknowledge that civil unions carry the same LEGAL rights and benefits as marriage does, and make that a national law, because most of the benefits (as in taxes) are paid to the federal government.

Second, have a box that states either "marriage" or "civil union". If the person is married by a JP, then the person officiating (who isn't a preacher) would check civil union and sign as the officiating person.

However...........

If the gay couple can find a church willing to marry them, and the ceremony is performed by an ordained minister (and yes, there are churches that will recognize gay marriage), then the box "marriage" is checked, and the preacher signs as the officiating person.

Wouldn't take too much to change the marriage liscence, and it would fix a lot of problems.

Do I personally think that gays have a right to marry? Yes. It doesn't really matter who you love, it just matters that you love someone, and if you're gonna get married, they gotta be of the age of consent.

Besides, sexuality is determined in the womb, because it happens during brain development. Scientists have proven this.

When did scientists prove that sexuality is determined in the womb? Do you mean male-or-female sexuality, or sexual orientation?

Actually, both. Studies have been done with brain scans where they looked at the actual structure of the brain.

What makes people gay? Biologists may never get a complete answer to that question, but researchers in Sweden have found one more sign that the answer lies in the structure of the brain.

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

 

[Qball]

There's a pretty simple solution to this problem.......

First off, acknowledge that civil unions carry the same LEGAL rights and benefits as marriage does, and make that a national law, because most of the benefits (as in taxes) are paid to the federal government.

Second, have a box that states either "marriage" or "civil union". If the person is married by a JP, then the person officiating (who isn't a preacher) would check civil union and sign as the officiating person.

However...........

If the gay couple can find a church willing to marry them, and the ceremony is performed by an ordained minister (and yes, there are churches that will recognize gay marriage), then the box "marriage" is checked, and the preacher signs as the officiating person.

Wouldn't take too much to change the marriage liscence, and it would fix a lot of problems.

Do I personally think that gays have a right to marry? Yes. It doesn't really matter who you love, it just matters that you love someone, and if you're gonna get married, they gotta be of the age of consent.

Besides, sexuality is determined in the womb, because it happens during brain development. Scientists have proven this.

When did scientists prove that sexuality is determined in the womb? Do you mean male-or-female sexuality, or sexual orientation?

Actually, both. Studies have been done with brain scans where they looked at the actual structure of the brain.

What makes people gay? Biologists may never get a complete answer to that question, but researchers in Sweden have found one more sign that the answer lies in the structure of the brain.

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

That's interesting, but it's not conclusive. I remember seeing the study that said gay men and straight women have similar looking brains (and I think the same was said for lesbians and straight men), but I didn't take that as saying it's clear that's where sexual orientation comes from. It seems like most scientists agree that it's a combination of biological and environmental factors that determine orientation.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Well, since the brain isn't fully formed until the teen years, I'd be willing to say that it's 85 percent biological at birth, with the remaining 15 percent being the environment the child grows up in.

But, the 15 percent won't override the 85 percent, which is why you have people coming out of the closet after marriage.

 

[Gadawg73]

There's a pretty simple solution to this problem.......

First off, acknowledge that civil unions carry the same LEGAL rights and benefits as marriage does, and make that a national law, because most of the benefits (as in taxes) are paid to the federal government.

Second, have a box that states either "marriage" or "civil union". If the person is married by a JP, then the person officiating (who isn't a preacher) would check civil union and sign as the officiating person.

However...........

If the gay couple can find a willing to marry them, and the ceremony is performed by an ordained minister (and yes, there are churches that will recognize gay marriage), then the box "marriage" is checked, and the preacher signs as the officiating person.

Wouldn't take too much to change the marriage liscence, and it would fix a lot of problems.

Do I personally think that gays have a right to marry? Yes. It doesn't really matter who you love, it just matters that you love someone, and if you're gonna get married, they gotta be of the age of consent.

Besides, sexuality is determined in the womb, because it happens during brain development. Scientists have proven this.

Civil unions are different than marriage.

Using some of the progressive logic I should have the RIGHT to walk into a Jewish temple (being a Roman Catholic) and they should be obligated to marry me if that was my wish. Oh and of course government should force the church to marry me... WTF...

What happened to the First Amendment again???

Explain the specific progressive logic you speak of. Where has anyone stated they have the right to be married in any church?
That has never happened and you know it.
The United States Constitution bars that and bars anyone forcing a church to do a damn thing.
Are you claiming there is a movement forming and organizing actively asking for an amendment to the Constitution forcing churches to marry people?
You do know that is what you are claiming and that would HAVE TO BE THE PROCESS?
Come on Nick, you oppose gays getting married because you want the power of government to force them not to be able to.
Big government you favor as long as it matches YOUR ideology.
NO true conservative supports GOVERNMENT stopping or regulating gays getting married. Oppose it all you want and I support your RIGHT to personally oppose it but when you SUPPORT government action to stop it that steps over the line and makes you a lover of big government and the power of government OVER THE INDIVIDUAL.
Gays getting married do not affect ANYONE.

 

[Gadawg73]

When did scientists prove that sexuality is determined in the womb? Do you mean male-or-female sexuality, or sexual orientation?

Actually, both. Studies have been done with brain scans where they looked at the actual structure of the brain.

What makes people gay? Biologists may never get a complete answer to that question, but researchers in Sweden have found one more sign that the answer lies in the structure of the brain.

Scientists at the Karolinska Institute studied brain scans of 90 gay and straight men and women, and found that the size of the two symmetrical halves of the brains of gay men more closely resembled those of straight women than they did straight men. In heterosexual women, the two halves of the brain are more or less the same size. In heterosexual men, the right hemisphere is slightly larger. Scans of the brains of gay men in the study, however, showed that their hemispheres were relatively symmetrical, like those of straight women, while the brains of homosexual women were asymmetrical like those of straight men. The number of nerves connecting the two sides of the brains of gay men were also more like the number in heterosexual women than in straight men.

Just what these brain differences mean is still not clear. Ever since 1991, when Simon LeVay first documented differences in the hypothalamus of gay and straight men, researchers have been struggling to understand what causes these differences to occur. Until now, the brain regions that scientists have come to believe play a role in sexual orientation have been related to either reproduction or sexuality. The Swedish study, however, is the first to find differences in parts of the brain not normally involved in reproduction — the denser network of nerve connections, for example, was found in the amygdala, known as the emotional center of the brain. "The big question has always been, if the brains of gay men are different, or feminized, as earlier research suggests," says Dr. Eric Vilain, professor of human genetics at University of California Los Angeles, "then is it just limited to sexual preference or are there other regions that are gender atypical in gay males? For the first time, in this study it looks like there are regions of the brain not directly involved in sexuality that seem to be feminized in gay males."


Read more: What the Gay Brain Looks Like - TIME

That's interesting, but it's not conclusive. I remember seeing the study that said gay men and straight women have similar looking brains (and I think the same was said for lesbians and straight men), but I didn't take that as saying it's clear that's where sexual orientation comes from. It seems like most scientists agree that it's a combination of biological and environmental factors that determine orientation.

Explain what environmental factors influenced your sexual orientation.
Explain how you chose your sexual orientation and how long did you contemplate each choice?
Specifics please.

 

[JakeStarkey]

All "marriages" must be registered as civil unions. All partner relationships must be registered as civil unions to ensure and order that reciprocity of obligations and benefits are met and obtained.

Leave marriage to religion. All are happy.

 

[Seawytch]

Marriage is not a right it's a choice...

Not according to the SCOTUS. They have declared it a fundamental right. You can have your opinion on that, but those are the FACTS.

Except they haven't declared it a "right" that is absolute. They have not struck down the incest laws or the polygamy laws.

Last time I checked, most of our fundamental rights have "riders". You know...can't yell fire in a theater, can't own a grenade launcher, etc.

In order for such a fundamental right as marriage denied, you must be able to demonstrate a societal harm in allowing it. With gay marriage, nobody can.

 

[Seawytch]

Incest is illegal in the U.S. Got any other strawmen?

Not everywhere in the US and the laws from state to state differ a great deal just as the age of consent.

Yes it is. There is no state which allows closer than cousins to marry.

Age of consent laws have ONLY gone UP in the US, not down.

Strawman.

 

[Seawytch]

Marriage is not a right it's a choice...

Not according to the SCOTUS. They have declared it a fundamental right. You can have your opinion on that, but those are the FACTS.

You're leaving out some important facts by citing those cases. For one thing, all three of them involved heterosexual (male/female) couples, not couples that would be considered deviating from the norm (i.e. same-sex, polygamous). All three of them pertained to laws that abridged what would otherwise be a traditional marriage -- anti-miscegenation laws, laws that denied marriage certificates to people in arrears for child support, and laws against inmates marrying -- and were primarily used for penal (see: punishment) purposes.

Conversely, none of those cases were over the legal definition of "marriage" or a couple's supposed right to call their union "marriage". None of those cases make the argument you need them to make -- that there exists some right for two men and two women to have a legally recognized marriage because the law recognizes male/female unions as marriage.

Interestingly, there are two cases in which someone went to the SCOTUS to argue that their marriage is a legal marriage too. Reynolds v. US (or is it the other way around?) was about a polygamist who said a state's law against polygamy infringed on his 1st amendment religious freedom -- he lost -- and Baker v. Nelson was a case where a gay couple claimed MN not recognizing gay marriage was in violation of their 9th and 14th amendment rights. The case was dismissed on the merits, five years after the Loving decision.

When arguing against allowing interracial marriage, it was claimed that such laws did not violate the constitution because they applied equally to men and women.

Your "man/woman" argument isn't going to stand up to the constitution anymore than theirs did.

There is no societal harm in allowing gays and lesbians to marry. The SCOTUS will have no choice but to rule in favor of gay masriage.

 

[Gadawg73]

Not according to the SCOTUS. They have declared it a fundamental right. You can have your opinion on that, but those are the FACTS.

Except they haven't declared it a "right" that is absolute. They have not struck down the incest laws or the polygamy laws.

Last time I checked, most of our fundamental rights have "riders". You know...can't yell fire in a theater, can't own a grenade launcher, etc.

In order for such a fundamental right as marriage denied, you must be able to demonstrate a societal harm in allowing it. With gay marriage, nobody can.

If you outlaw grenade launchers only outlaws will have grenade launchers.
Please, not my grenade launcher!

 

[Seawytch]

Except they haven't declared it a "right" that is absolute. They have not struck down the incest laws or the polygamy laws.

Last time I checked, most of our fundamental rights have "riders". You know...can't yell fire in a theater, can't own a grenade launcher, etc.

In order for such a fundamental right as marriage denied, you must be able to demonstrate a societal harm in allowing it. With gay marriage, nobody can.

If you outlaw grenade launchers only outlaws will have grenade launchers.
Please, not my grenade launcher!

Oh, not you Dawg...you can have one

 

[Gadawg73]

I can not wait until the day when this gay marriage BS is put to rest.
Gay and lesbian folk fall in love with folk of the same sex. They want to get married. So what? What the hell is wrong with that?
Folks need to mind their own damn business. Folks that oppose gay marriage are insecure with their own lives.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The best one for laughs is when twerps argue that universl marriage threatens their civil and religious liberties.

Hey, lissen up, twerps: come to me if anyone tries to force you to marry someone of your own sex, and I will come save you.

 

[PredFan]

I am just curious as to where you guys stand when it comes to this argument...

I'm for making civil unions completely equal to marriage in EVERY legal way. Let homosexuals have Civil Unions, and let hetero's keep "marriage". Everyone gets what they want, except the fanatical gays who want the name "marriage" simply to rub it in the faces of the religious.

Gay "Rights" is complete bull shit. Gays have every single right that heteros have. What they want are special rights.

Can you provide a list of these "special rights" that homosexuals are asking for under Civil Marriage Law that would not be available to heterosexual couples under Civil Marriage Law?


>>>>

"Special Rights" #1: Same sex marriage/union.

 

[JakeStarkey]

No, PredFan, universal marriage is not a special right at all, it is a civil and human right guaranteed to all of us.

Grow up.

 

[mskafka]

No, I don't respect them for their queerness, but I have met a couple in my trade that I respected their work. As long as it isn't in my house I simply don't care what they do.

So...you're saying you respect people like me as long as our "queerness" isn't in front of you?

Just in my own castle, that's all I can control, and I've been blessed that it hasn't infected my family, yet.
I've worked alongside without issue many times, and socially I just don't see many in my circles.

It hasn't, THAT YOU KNOW OF. If you were my parent, I would be terrified to tell you, so I simply wouldn't. She would be introduced as my "friend" Esmerelda.

 

[WorldWatcher]

I'm for making civil unions completely equal to marriage in EVERY legal way. Let homosexuals have Civil Unions, and let hetero's keep "marriage". Everyone gets what they want, except the fanatical gays who want the name "marriage" simply to rub it in the faces of the religious.

Gay "Rights" is complete bull shit. Gays have every single right that heteros have. What they want are special rights.

Can you provide a list of these "special rights" that homosexuals are asking for under Civil Marriage Law that would not be available to heterosexual couples under Civil Marriage Law?


>>>>

"Special Rights" #1: Same sex marriage/union.

Sorry, PF fail.

Heterosexuals would be able to marry someone of the same-sex just like homosexuals. No "special right" there. If you want to use that logic, then the ones asking for "special rights" are us heterosexuals because of laws enacted to ban equal treatment under the law of Same-sex Civil Marriages, reserving those "special" considerations under the law only for us.


Care to try again, again please be specific about what special rights would be afforded to those in a Same-sex Civil Marriage that would not be available to those in a Different-sex Civil Marriage.



>>>>

 

[JoeB131]

So Adult family members should be allowed to marry? How about 3 or more people?

why not?

1) Eeeeewwwwwww!

2) There's this little problem with inbreeding and redundant genes...

 

[JoeB131]

No, PredFan, universal marriage is not a special right at all, it is a civil and human right guaranteed to all of us.

Grow up.

Reality check.

There are no "rights".

Any fool who thinks he has "rights" should look up "Japanese-Americans, 1942". That's how fast rights disappear.

What we have are privilages that the rest of society recognizes.

Now, marriage is a privilage. We are redefinng the privilage, and I don't see any reason why it should be denied to same-sex couples. As long as we do it the right way and through the democratic process.

But society is not going to recognize incest or polygamy any time soon, nor should it. There's no compelling reason.

I can see a good reason for recognizing gay marriage, because the alternative is gays pretending to be straight, and getting into loveless marriages to please society, making themselves and their partners miserable.

 

[del]

So Adult family members should be allowed to marry? How about 3 or more people?

why not?

1) Eeeeewwwwwww!

2) There's this little problem with inbreeding and redundant genes...

i'll bow to your experience on this point

new banjo?