Israel's communties in Judea and Samaria collectively take up less that 2% of the land, so if there is peace, these are no obstacles to a Palestinians state, but if there is no peace, there will be no Palestinian state.
If you look at a map...it doesn't look like there are no obstacles - you can't create a viable and secure country that looks like swiss cheese. The more settlements there are, the harder it will be to create a coherent area. I think settlements are an obstacle to PEACE - one of many.
So before meaningful negotiations about a final status agreement can begin, the Palestinians must form a government that can credibly offer peace to Israel, and there is no possibility that will happen in the foreseeable future, meaning there is no possibility there will be a Palestinian state in the foreseeable future.
Agree, but about the need, but I'm not sure that it will not happen in the foreseeable future.
Therefore if you are interested in the welfare of the Palestinians as people, as opposed to a people, you will support negotiations about how to deal with their problems within the context of the status quo rather than give them false hope of something that cannot happen.
What sort of scenario do you invision here?
Collectively, all the Israeli communities in Judea and Samaria take up less than 2% of the land, so it is certainly possible to form a contiguous state around them; furthermore, Gaza and the West Bank are separated by Israel, so in the event of peace accommodation would have to be made to allow them to operate as a single state, and that same accommodation would allow Israeli sovereignty over its communities in Judea and Samaria without obstructing the creation of a Palestinian state. Therefore either Gaza and the West Bank cannot become a single state or Israeli sovereignty over its communities in Judea and Samaria is not an obstacle to the formation of a Palestinian state.
I think that would lead to a security nightmare. It already creates substantial problems with people unable to access portions of their land. I really don't think it could be done to create a feasible state nor do I think Gaza and WB could be unified into one state.
The 2% claim is also very deceptive:
How much Palestinian land do Israeli settlements really eat up?
1. What the 2 percent figure omits.
Those who cite the 2 percent figure rarely clarify that this refers purely to the built-up area of the settlements. As described in a Human Rights Watch report earlier this year, while “the built-up area of residential settlements covers 6,000 hectares”, there are also “approximately 20 Israeli-administered industrial zones in the West Bank covering about 1,365 hectares, and Israeli settlers oversee the cultivation of 9,300 hectares of agricultural land.”
2. The settlements’ local authorities.
Settlement areas in the West Bank, including local and regional councils marked in grey (UN OCHA, 2009)
The 2 percent figure also obscures a perhaps more significant reality. 23 Jewish local authorities operate in the West Bank: “three municipalities, fourteen local councils and six regional councils.” According to a 2009 United Nations report, 39 percent of the West Bank falls under these authorities’ jurisdiction. Israel has “consistently refused to allocate such land for Palestinian use.”
As an example, the report describes how “almost all of the [Jordan Valley and Dead Sea] area falls under the jurisdiction of two [settler] Regional Councils” – the “practical implication” of which “is that, in almost the entirety of the Jordan Valley, Palestinian construction is prohibited.”
Israeli NGO B’Tselem, meanwhile, describing how Palestinians are prevented from using land in ‘Area C’ (around 60 percent of the West Bank), states that settlements and their regional councils constitute 36.6 percent of the West Bank as a whole.
Furthermore, “the areas of jurisdiction of the Jewish local authorities, most of which extend far beyond the built-up area, are defined as ‘closed military zones’…[and] Palestinians are forbidden to enter these areas without authorization from the Israeli military commander.”
Here is a map...how would it work?
Furthermore, not only are these communities not obstacles to peace, but they are oases of peace in a turbulent region. Each day tens of thousands of Palestinians go to work in these communities earning two to six times what they could otherwise earn and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians would gladly work there if there were enough jobs. Israel has extended its labor protection laws to everyone who works for an Israeli employer, so there is no exploitation of the Palestinian workers. The Palestinian Authority passed a law a few years ago making it a crime to work in Israeli communities but it is universally ignored.
They are clearly obstacles to peace. That is repeatedly stated by the Palestinian side - whether you agree or not, the Palestinians feel that they are and they are one of the negotiating partners.
There is no plausible scenario under which the Palestinians can form a government that can credibly offer peace to Israel in the foreseeable future, so there is no plausible path to a Palestinian state in the foreseeable future.
The status quo, with the Palestinians Authority in areas A and B having 95+% of the powers of a sovereign state - unless feuding among the terrorist groups destroys what government structure they have - and Israel retaining control of are C, indefinitely because there is no viable alternative. Israel will continue to build within its existing communities and to create more communities, but only within its master plan which means no more that about 8% of Judea and Samaria will be developed for Israeli use. The Palestinians will prosper within this framework if they choose to live in peace with Israelis.
At the moment, the "status quo" puts the Palestinians under military law in much of the area and Israel controls their trade, power, and water rights as well as movement. Not sure I can see how they can prosper even IF they give up violence and accept a permenent second class status. And, looking at the map - it is far more than 8%.
Today, tens of thousands of Palestinians prosper by going to work in Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria, and they also go there to shop as Israelis from these communities go to many of the nearby Arab villages to shop, and it is these mutually beneficial transactions that are the path to peace, not UN resolutions that give the Arabs false hopes and inspire terrorism that will make their lives more difficult. The more Israel builds in Judea and Samaria, the more peace and prosperity it brings to the Arabs in the area.
The reality is - the more the Palestinians are squeezed out and restricted. Israel restricts their ability expand, and build new settlements. I don't see how that brings more "peace and prosperity".
