Somne Of You Right Siders Explain This To Me............

[kaz]

What is this interest in defending the over-rich and powerful? They don't need help. It isn't necessary to be against 'them', but it is astounding to see people vociferously plead their case.

They really aren't your friends, you know.

Actually what you call our "vociferously plead(ing) their case" IS when we just say it's not necessary to be "against" them. No one is arguing they should pay less taxes or get any benefit other Americans don't get. Just they shouldn't be punished for being successful and providing jobs. So I have no idea what you're talking about. If you do, maybe you could explain it.

 

[kaz]

.....................if all this low tax shit is so good...what the phuck happened to the wages of the lowest three fourths of American workers. Their wages have stagnated but after adjusting for taxes and cost of living they're worse off than they were in the 70's

Sure, I'll explain it to you. At the same time, the tax burden, the percent of Federal taxes of the "rich" has gone up while the bottom 50% of filers now pay zero. Not 50% of Americans, 50% of filers. At the same time, politicians are ramping up Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps and other entitlements and then to get even more welfare they are creating endless "refundable tax credits." And then they pump the message to recipients to appreciate none of it, they deserve it. Spread the wealth is the mantra, regardless of contribution.

This means that over half of Americans think they have no stake in paying taxes and our government has become increasingly belligerent to the people who do. Unemployment makes sure that few teenagers or low end adult workers can find any job. So we rich bastards who run businesses hire less, spend more time on paperwork protecting ourselves from lawsuits and unemployment skyrockets. Which means there's a glut of labor and wages stay down.

So what solution do you propose, then? Are you of the belief that working Americans are undertaxed, and the aristocrats are overtaxed?

The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes, the top 5% pay 60%. What would be enough for you exactly?

 

[kaz]

Defense spending was about 70% of our Federal budget in the 50's

I propose we cut defense spending in half, which should be plenty to protect the US. Then we go back to this statistic for the rest of the Federal government.

 

[Erand7899]

What is this interest in defending the over-rich and powerful? They don't need help. It isn't necessary to be against 'them', but it is astounding to see people vociferously plead their case.

They really aren't your friends, you know.

The over-rich and powerful are not the targets of any of the tax the rich schemes. They can not only protect their interests, they have done pretty well at it. Few, if any, or them pay any income tax. They pay capital gains taxes, and that is less than the income tax rate.

The people that the tax the rich schemers are after, are those who are getting rich, and cannot escape income taxes. They are also the major source of jobs in our economy. Most of our population depend on those jobs for their own means of income.

What kind of morons would want to punish the job creators with higher taxes?

 

[there4eyeM]

Sure, I'll explain it to you. At the same time, the tax burden, the percent of Federal taxes of the "rich" has gone up while the bottom 50% of filers now pay zero. Not 50% of Americans, 50% of filers. At the same time, politicians are ramping up Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps and other entitlements and then to get even more welfare they are creating endless "refundable tax credits." And then they pump the message to recipients to appreciate none of it, they deserve it. Spread the wealth is the mantra, regardless of contribution.

This means that over half of Americans think they have no stake in paying taxes and our government has become increasingly belligerent to the people who do. Unemployment makes sure that few teenagers or low end adult workers can find any job. So we rich bastards who run businesses hire less, spend more time on paperwork protecting ourselves from lawsuits and unemployment skyrockets. Which means there's a glut of labor and wages stay down.

So what solution do you propose, then? Are you of the belief that working Americans are undertaxed, and the aristocrats are overtaxed?

I believe everyone is overtaxed.

We're not going anywhere until everyone realizes that we all have to pay our fair share.

And by fair share I mean the same tax rate for everybody.

"The rich need to pay their fair share" is the biggest bullshit excuse I've ever heard being fed to the poor and middle class in regards to why they're broke. The Libs blame this mess on the rich people who employ the entire middle and poor classes.

Yeah, because even those on welfare are being payed by the wealthy. They're just not working for it.

32% Increase in welfare spending under Obama. Living off the government tax money of the wealthy is slowly becoming a profession in this country. Keep raising the taxes. I'm sure Chavez and Castro would be proud.

Perhaps the same tax rate on revenue...
...after we clarify that revenue is not wages for labor.

 

[Freemason9]

Sure, I'll explain it to you. At the same time, the tax burden, the percent of Federal taxes of the "rich" has gone up while the bottom 50% of filers now pay zero. Not 50% of Americans, 50% of filers. At the same time, politicians are ramping up Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps and other entitlements and then to get even more welfare they are creating endless "refundable tax credits." And then they pump the message to recipients to appreciate none of it, they deserve it. Spread the wealth is the mantra, regardless of contribution.

This means that over half of Americans think they have no stake in paying taxes and our government has become increasingly belligerent to the people who do. Unemployment makes sure that few teenagers or low end adult workers can find any job. So we rich bastards who run businesses hire less, spend more time on paperwork protecting ourselves from lawsuits and unemployment skyrockets. Which means there's a glut of labor and wages stay down.

So what solution do you propose, then? Are you of the belief that working Americans are undertaxed, and the aristocrats are overtaxed?

The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes, the top 5% pay 60%. What would be enough for you exactly?

I no longer pretend to have an answer to that; I find it interesting, however, that the right wing is outraged when the left proposed to increase federal income taxes for the wealthiest Americans, but they're cool with increasing federal income taxes for the middle class and the poorest. I don't get that.

 

[kaz]

The over-rich and powerful are not the targets of any of the tax the rich schemes. They can not only protect their interests, they have done pretty well at it. Few, if any, or them pay any income tax. They pay capital gains taxes, and that is less than the income tax rate.

Really? How is it then that 1% of the population pay 40% of the taxes ... while they earn 20% of the income ...

Actually the rich pay the most taxes at the highest average rates of any group. I don't want the facts to stand in the way of a good liberal rant, but they sort of do on their own. Sorry ...

 

[SniperFire]

Defense spending, as a percentage of total budget outlays, and as a percentage of our GDP, hover around record lows:

That which is destroying our nation's solvency is not defense spending.

 

[Freemason9]

Sure, I'll explain it to you. At the same time, the tax burden, the percent of Federal taxes of the "rich" has gone up while the bottom 50% of filers now pay zero. Not 50% of Americans, 50% of filers. At the same time, politicians are ramping up Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps and other entitlements and then to get even more welfare they are creating endless "refundable tax credits." And then they pump the message to recipients to appreciate none of it, they deserve it. Spread the wealth is the mantra, regardless of contribution.

This means that over half of Americans think they have no stake in paying taxes and our government has become increasingly belligerent to the people who do. Unemployment makes sure that few teenagers or low end adult workers can find any job. So we rich bastards who run businesses hire less, spend more time on paperwork protecting ourselves from lawsuits and unemployment skyrockets. Which means there's a glut of labor and wages stay down.

So what solution do you propose, then? Are you of the belief that working Americans are undertaxed, and the aristocrats are overtaxed?

I believe everyone is overtaxed.

We're not going anywhere until everyone realizes that we all have to pay our fair share.

And by fair share I mean the same tax rate for everybody.

"The rich need to pay their fair share" is the biggest bullshit excuse I've ever heard being fed to the poor and middle class in regards to why they're broke. The Libs blame this mess on the rich people who employ the entire middle and poor classes.

Yeah, because even those on welfare are being payed by the wealthy. They're just not working for it.

32% Increase in welfare spending under Obama. Living off the government tax money of the wealthy is slowly becoming a profession in this country. Keep raising the taxes. I'm sure Chavez and Castro would be proud.

If you go with a "flat tax," you will drastically cut taxes on the richest folks and drastically increase taxes on the poorest. Isn't that correct? I wonder if Grover supports this . . . LOL

 

[Qantrill]

.....................if all this low tax shit is so good...what the phuck happened to the wages of the lowest three fourths of American workers. Their wages have stagnated but after adjusting for taxes and cost of living they're worse off than they were in the 70's. You people don't give a shit as long as your fairy tale is alive and a group of peons go to fight your goddam "boots on the ground" interventions in someone else's country. This insanity has to stop.

Their income from working in our US commerce declined. They are now on 120% welfare...

That would be after their rent/house payment is made by the guvment; and their food, alcohol and illegal drugs have been purchased using their government issued food stamps; and their health care has been provided when they get shot in a drive-by or wounded in their own attempt to hold-up the 7-11 down the street; or more likely, Joe's Deli and corner drug sales biz; and the Aid to Dependent Chillun payment has been used up... then they file their income tax return showing NO GROSS INCOME, NO TAXABLE INCOME but a ZERO MINUS INCOME... that qualifies them for their EARNED INCOME CREDIT REFUND, AMOUNT determined by the number of ILLEGITIMATE CHILLUN under the age of 25 living at home...or if mentally handicapped, forever.

All they have to do is watch their mailbox for delivery of their $10,000/$15,000 EARNED INCOME CREDIT check. Meanwhile they may have to knock over a few neighborhood drug dealers to supplement the current year income.

UNDERSTAND?

 

[SniperFire]

So what solution do you propose, then? Are you of the belief that working Americans are undertaxed, and the aristocrats are overtaxed?

The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes, the top 5% pay 60%. What would be enough for you exactly?

I no longer pretend to have an answer to that; I find it interesting, however, that the right wing is outraged when the left proposed to increase federal income taxes for the wealthiest Americans but they're cool with increasing federal income taxes for the middle class and the poorest. I don't get that.

LOL

Cowardly non-answer.

 

[kaz]

I no longer pretend to have an answer to that; I find it interesting, however, that the right wing is outraged when the left proposed to increase federal income taxes for the wealthiest Americans, but they're cool with increasing federal income taxes for the middle class and the poorest. I don't get that.

Once again, you're factually challenged. 47% of tax filers now pay zero taxes, how would that translate into a tax increase for the "poorest?"

And the middle class pay close to a zero real rate. By the time you take out their mortgage, kids, IRAs, ... they pay almost nothing and they pay almost none of the federal tax bill.

I'm not right, I'm libertarian, but I personally don't think as long as we have an income tax that no one should ever pay zero on their income because that's what sets up the situation we have where politicians preach to the receivers of government money and are indifferent to those who foot the bill.

 

[Freemason9]

Defense spending, as a percentage of total budget outlays, and as a percentage of our GDP, hover around record lows:

That which is destroying our nation's solvency is not defense spending.

Well, you gotta cut somewhere. Given our country's infamous level of poverty and the maintenance of an underclass of minorities, I somehow believe that the strategy of "starving them out" won't be wildly successful.

Unless you plan to starve out the elderly and create "death panels," that might save some money. LOL

 

[Freemason9]

The top 1% pay 40% of all Federal taxes, the top 5% pay 60%. What would be enough for you exactly?

I no longer pretend to have an answer to that; I find it interesting, however, that the right wing is outraged when the left proposed to increase federal income taxes for the wealthiest Americans but they're cool with increasing federal income taxes for the middle class and the poorest. I don't get that.

LOL

Cowardly non-answer.

You didn't provide a response, though, and I am genuinely interest in your thoughts. I just don't know what you propose, exactly. Spell it out.

 

[kaz]

If you go with a "flat tax," you will drastically cut taxes on the richest folks and drastically increase taxes on the poorest. Isn't that correct? I wonder if Grover supports this . . . LOL

Actually the only people in this country who pay taxes, other than the death tax, are consumers. The rest of the taxes are build into the price of products we buy. Income taxes, Payroll Taxes, Interest, Corporate, Sales, Tariffs. Think about it, every one is funded by consumers.

That means that the poor are paying the highest tax rates now because they spend the highest portion of their income. The most economically efficient tax therefore is to eliminate all taxes and only charge a national sales tax. All taxes are on sales, but that would eliminate both the myriad of taxes as well as the infrastructures to collect them all.

The main proposal for that is the Fair Tax. Either a true liberal or a true conservative would support the Fair Tax if they understood the implications of our tax system and what it does to damage our economy for no benefit but to politicians. The fight should be over how and how much to spend, there is no logical question of the best way to raise it.

 

[Freemason9]

I no longer pretend to have an answer to that; I find it interesting, however, that the right wing is outraged when the left proposed to increase federal income taxes for the wealthiest Americans, but they're cool with increasing federal income taxes for the middle class and the poorest. I don't get that.

Once again, you're factually challenged. 47% of tax filers now pay zero taxes, how would that translate into a tax increase for the "poorest?"

And the middle class pay close to a zero real rate. By the time you take out their mortgage, kids, IRAs, ... they pay almost nothing and they pay almost none of the federal tax bill.

I'm not right, I'm libertarian, but I personally don't think as long as we have an income tax that no one should ever pay zero on their income because that's what sets up the situation we have where politicians preach to the receivers of government money and are indifferent to those who foot the bill.

Give me a break, Kaz. You accuse me of being "factually challenged," but it sounds like you agree with my assertion that you believe most people should pay more taxes to even the "burden" (with regard to federal income taxes only, of course). Am I missing something?

 

[Amazed]

The Republican bubble is alive and well. If you can't read a chart and can't rememember 2008 you don't even deserve an opinion. The major banks in the country(world) were on the brink of collapse but Bush, Paulson and Bernanke handed them nearly a trillion dollars with no specification about how it had to be used. 750 thousand jobs were being lost every month. Since 2005-6 homes had been and were being foreclosed on and owners evicted at an unprecedented rate. General Motors and Chrysler were on the brink of collapse. You goddam people must have your own language......either that or you can't read. Well.....I guess it's the former because you read that 2000 year old fiction and believe you're gonna rise up from the grave, join a ghost floating on a cloud and fly off to paradise where you will live forever. ROTFL

You are babbling, fool.

The material well-being of the poor/working classes has improved 50% since 1980.

Is that a growth in their 'income' or not?

Or did someone not tell you that welfare is now the #1 expense item in the Federal budget?

You are the babbling fool. You go to the polls and vote for millionaires and corporations while you more than likely make less than $100K yourself. In other words.....vote for the bible thumpers and against your own interests. Just like the Joe the Plumber guy who cleaned out septic tanks but dreamed of getting his boss's job.

Silly little parrot....covering all of the talking points I see.

 

[kaz]

Give me a break, Kaz. You accuse me of being "factually challenged," but it sounds like you agree with my assertion that you believe most people should pay more taxes to even the "burden" (with regard to federal income taxes only, of course). Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. You're correct in the part that I think everyone should pay some taxes, but you're wrong about the "evening the burden" part. The poor would pay very little tax in my system. My point, which I stated pretty clearly, was that they would feel something when they raise taxes and increase spending and now they feel nothing.

 

[Freemason9]

Katz said:

"That means that the poor are paying the highest tax rates now because they spend the highest portion of their income. The most economically efficient tax therefore is to eliminate all taxes and only charge a national sales tax."

The first sentence implies that you believe the poor are paying an unjustly high percentage of their incomes in taxation of all kinds. I agree; but in your second sentence, you appear to support that structure and want to make it official tax policy, correct? This seems immoral.

 

[Freemason9]

Give me a break, Kaz. You accuse me of being "factually challenged," but it sounds like you agree with my assertion that you believe most people should pay more taxes to even the "burden" (with regard to federal income taxes only, of course). Am I missing something?

Yes, you are missing something. You're correct in the part that I think everyone should pay some taxes, but you're wrong about the "evening the burden" part. The poor would pay very little tax in my system. My point, which I stated pretty clearly, was that they would feel something when they raise taxes and increase spending and now they feel nothing.

Gotcha.

But you know as well as I do that the poor pay a LOT of taxes; they simply aren't covered by the discussion of Federal Income Taxes, which the media (and the professional politicians) pretend to be the only tax that matters.