Some Old-School Black Powder Shooting

[Ringel05]

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

 

[JGalt]

Beautiful day today, I thought I'd shoot some reproduction black powder rifles and pistols. From top to bottom is a 50 caliber Lyman Plains rifle, a reproduction of a Civil War era 1863 Remington Zouave rifle in 58 caliber, an Italian-made 58 caliber Hawken rifle, a reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber, and a reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber.

I have all the necessary items to shoot these in a toolbox: Powder, bullets, patches, percussion caps, tools, and stuff.

I'm going to shoot the 58 caliber Hawken rifle first..

It's loaded from the muzzle end by pouring a measured amount of powder down the bore. I'm using Pyrodex, which is a cleaner-burning substitute for black powder. I'm shooting a 440 grain cast lead maxi-bullet that packs a wallop, and loading it with 70 grains of Pyrodex. That's a medium load, as I could go up to 100 grains of powder. The bullet get greased with a lubricant, shoved down the bore with a ramrod, then a percussion cap is put on the nipple...

As you can see it's pretty accurate. I'm only shooting at 25 yards but this rifle is good out to 300 yards..

Next I'm going to shoot the 1863 Remington Zouave rifle. I'm using some different bullets that have a hollow base but this rifle really likes the traditional Minnie ball, which I don't any of right now. So it won't be as accurate...

Next I'm going to shoot the reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber. I start by pouring 15 grains of Pyrodex P (pistol) powder in each chamber, followed by some cornmeal as a buffer. Then I press the 36 caliber ball in the the loading leaver on the pistol. I thin put a dab of Bore Butter bullet lube on each chamber to keep from having a chain fire. That can happen when the fired chamber sparks over and ignites the adjacent chambers, which is not something you want. The last step is putting a percussion cap on each of the nipples...

Last is the reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber. It gets loaded the same way. I'm going to shoot this one at a 12" steel target I have 75 yards up the hill..

Tomorrow comes the fun part: Taking these apart, cleaning them with hot soapy water, blowing them dry with an air compressor, oiling them up, and putting them away until next time. They rust up pretty fast if you don't do that.

Adios.

/——/ Are the reproductions better quality than the originals?

Mostly yes as the safety requirements are more stringent these days. Better metals and long arm barrels are thicker. Many of the Civ War era muskets have very thin barrels.

Even during the Civil War era, metallurgy was advanced over the early 1800's. Like you said, most Civil War era muskets had fairly thin barrels but most of them were in big bore calibers: .54, .58, or .69. But most of the rifles made in the early 1800's had thick octagonal barrels, even the small caliber rifles. I used to have a .32 caliber squirrel rifle that was made sometime around the 1820's and it had a thick octagonal barrel. It was fun to shoot but the lock started getting flaky so I sold it.

Also had an Austrian rifle similar to a Lorenz, that I found at a garage sale for 70 bucks. During the Civil War, European ships were slipping through the blockade to deliver rifles to the South while at the same time, the North was buying them up to keep the South from getting them. The one I had appeared to have had the bore drilled out to make a fowling piece out of it after the war.

 

[JGalt]

If I ever have any disposable income again, I want me a Kentucky rifle.
A rifle just like in Sergeant York.
Hey..my cousin had a "Quigley down under" rifle. Yessir he did!

Sad thing is he couldn't get one like he went to war with, wtf?!

I found one for him, about a week b4 he died.
I never got to get that for him.
M1 Garand.

He had one similar, but it was synthetic and all this crap..

I found this place in GA, but he was on the outro.
Hoo-wee! My cousin had a lot of guns. A room with racks floor to ceiling filled with guns, anyplace they could be put.
Everything just about but what I wanted to get him. He deserved it. I loved my cousin. He loved me too.
Now that's all gone.

If you can find one the Dixie Tennessee (very sim to KY) is awesome, run maybe $800 used now.

I did not have the exact Quigly rifle but did have and 1874 Sharps, couple 1863 too.

Believe York was a Springfield 1903. I was at a Vettes for Vets ride at the Bowling Green Museum, we gave woulded warriors rides around the 3.14 mile track. Had a speaker, Sgt Yorks grandson!!!

I have a Garand, 1954 Dec, all matching, H&R, cherry condition, my fav.

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

That should have been a 1917 Enfield, or a P-17. I have a sporterized P-17 that someone built back in the 60's. Beautiful gun..

 

[JGalt]

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

 

[Vastator]

The Lemay is on my short list..

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

Gotta keep turning out new products for people to buy. There are only so many exact replicas to replicate, before aficionados have nothing left to buy. That's where period incorrect, but inspired pieces come into play. Some people just want something different with that old time classic feel.

 

[Ringel05]

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

The 1860 WAS the Army .44 Cal model and was the most widely used revolver in the war. All the Navy Colts were .36 caliber.

 

[Ringel05]

Beautiful day today, I thought I'd shoot some reproduction black powder rifles and pistols. From top to bottom is a 50 caliber Lyman Plains rifle, a reproduction of a Civil War era 1863 Remington Zouave rifle in 58 caliber, an Italian-made 58 caliber Hawken rifle, a reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber, and a reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber.

I have all the necessary items to shoot these in a toolbox: Powder, bullets, patches, percussion caps, tools, and stuff.

I'm going to shoot the 58 caliber Hawken rifle first..

It's loaded from the muzzle end by pouring a measured amount of powder down the bore. I'm using Pyrodex, which is a cleaner-burning substitute for black powder. I'm shooting a 440 grain cast lead maxi-bullet that packs a wallop, and loading it with 70 grains of Pyrodex. That's a medium load, as I could go up to 100 grains of powder. The bullet get greased with a lubricant, shoved down the bore with a ramrod, then a percussion cap is put on the nipple...

As you can see it's pretty accurate. I'm only shooting at 25 yards but this rifle is good out to 300 yards..

Next I'm going to shoot the 1863 Remington Zouave rifle. I'm using some different bullets that have a hollow base but this rifle really likes the traditional Minnie ball, which I don't any of right now. So it won't be as accurate...

Next I'm going to shoot the reproduction Remington 1858 revolver in .36 caliber. I start by pouring 15 grains of Pyrodex P (pistol) powder in each chamber, followed by some cornmeal as a buffer. Then I press the 36 caliber ball in the the loading leaver on the pistol. I thin put a dab of Bore Butter bullet lube on each chamber to keep from having a chain fire. That can happen when the fired chamber sparks over and ignites the adjacent chambers, which is not something you want. The last step is putting a percussion cap on each of the nipples...

Last is the reproduction Colt 1860 Army revolver in .44 caliber. It gets loaded the same way. I'm going to shoot this one at a 12" steel target I have 75 yards up the hill..

Tomorrow comes the fun part: Taking these apart, cleaning them with hot soapy water, blowing them dry with an air compressor, oiling them up, and putting them away until next time. They rust up pretty fast if you don't do that.

Adios.

/——/ Are the reproductions better quality than the originals?

Mostly yes as the safety requirements are more stringent these days. Better metals and long arm barrels are thicker. Many of the Civ War era muskets have very thin barrels.

Even during the Civil War era, metallurgy was advanced over the early 1800's. Like you said, most Civil War era muskets had fairly thin barrels but most of them were in big bore calibers: .54, .58, or .69. But most of the rifles made in the early 1800's had thick octagonal barrels, even the small caliber rifles. I used to have a .32 caliber squirrel rifle that was made sometime around the 1820's and it had a thick octagonal barrel. It was fun to shoot but the lock started getting flaky so I sold it.

Also had an Austrian rifle similar to a Lorenz, that I found at a garage sale for 70 bucks. During the Civil War, European ships were slipping through the blockade to deliver rifles to the South while at the same time, the North was buying them up to keep the South from getting them. The one I had appeared to have had the bore drilled out to make a fowling piece out of it after the war.

That's why I specifically mentioned Civil War...... Or did I?

 

[JGalt]

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

I can see that, nothing wrong with that 1914 at all. I have carried a 1911 since 79! Had many, 1 left. $1200 worth parts in it, commander length. Bar sto barrel ($300) 2 piece guide rod, McCormic slims, best of parts. Parted with the sprinfield.

Had a buddy when I was doing WWII Gebirgsjager, deals would just drop into his lap...... I was soooooo jealous.
He paid a couple of hundred bucks for a WWII German Hi-Power with all German markings, people would give him antique WWII & WWI firearms...... He had one hell of a collection.
When we did Battle of the Bulge every year at Fort Indiantown Gap we would set up one room upstairs in the old WWII barracks as an armory.

Geez. I remember when you could buy those WW2 German k98 Mausers for $15 and $4 USPS shipping right to the door. I bought two of them in 1967. Lugers were going for $40-$60 bucks then too.

 

[JGalt]

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

The 1860 WAS the Army .44 Cal model and was the most widely used revolver in the war. All the Navy Colts were .36 caliber.

Thanks. My mistake.

 

[Ringel05]

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

I can see that, nothing wrong with that 1914 at all. I have carried a 1911 since 79! Had many, 1 left. $1200 worth parts in it, commander length. Bar sto barrel ($300) 2 piece guide rod, McCormic slims, best of parts. Parted with the sprinfield.

Had a buddy when I was doing WWII Gebirgsjager, deals would just drop into his lap...... I was soooooo jealous.
He paid a couple of hundred bucks for a WWII German Hi-Power with all German markings, people would give him antique WWII & WWI firearms...... He had one hell of a collection.
When we did Battle of the Bulge every year at Fort Indiantown Gap we would set up one room upstairs in the old WWII barracks as an armory.

Geez. I remember when you could buy those WW2 German k98 Mausers for $15 and $4 USPS shipping right to the door. I bought two of them in 1967. Lugers were going for $40-$60 bucks then too.

The shorter version ones you see are G 33-40s, they were specifically issued to Gebirgsjager (mountain troops). Now those suckers ain't cheap by any stretch of the imagination. All those sidearms on the rack belonged to my buddy. The collection was all of ours mixed together but the vast majority was owned by my best friend who was our unit commander.

 

[Ringel05]

The Lemay is on my short list..

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

Gotta keep turning out new products for people to buy. There are only so many exact replicas to replicate, before aficionados have nothing left to buy. That's where period incorrect, but inspired pieces come into play. Some people just want something different with that old time classic feel.

Don't you mean the LeMat?

 

[Vastator]

The Lemay is on my short list..

Back to black powder firearms. A little more history.
Jgalt, while you have some beautiful revolvers there neither Colt nor Remington ever made their revolvers with brass frames and if they did the brass would be red not yellow, different blend in that era. I completely forgot but I own a brass framed Remington "Buffalo", it's boxed away, haven't fired it in eons but it's extremely accurate with that 12" long barrel........ Needs some work, should get it out and attach a stock to it.
The only two sidearms that had brass frames were both Confederate made, the Griswold & Gunnison, (basically a copy of the Colt) and the Spiller & Burr.

Griswold & Gunnison

Spiller & Burr

Pieta makes a reproduction Spiller & Burr.

Only 1451 Spiller & Burrs were ever produced out of 15,000 commisioned by the CSA.

Wow! Those are pretty. Yeah, I think modern-day manufacturers took some liberties with their repro pistols. I don't even know if there was such a thing as an "1860 Colt Army" in .44 caliber.

Gotta keep turning out new products for people to buy. There are only so many exact replicas to replicate, before aficionados have nothing left to buy. That's where period incorrect, but inspired pieces come into play. Some people just want something different with that old time classic feel.

Don't you mean the LeMat?

Yes! Damn auto incorrect! But the repros are quite pricey. Still I'll have one if I have my say...

 

[Ringel05]

Oh and during the Civil War some units continued to use .69 caliber smoothbores through the entire war. Most fighting took place withing 100 yards of each other and the .69 caliber could shoot buck and ball which was devastating at close range.

 

[Cellblock2429]

York carried a 1914 British Enfield and a Colt .45 semi-auto (documented). When we entered the war we had an extremely limited supply of Springfields so we purchased massive quantities of the Enfields as well as some French long arms and MGs. Some of our soldiers were even issued the old 1890s Krag–Jørgensen rifles. It took a while for the Springfield Armory to hit full production of the 1903s.

I can see that, nothing wrong with that 1914 at all. I have carried a 1911 since 79! Had many, 1 left. $1200 worth parts in it, commander length. Bar sto barrel ($300) 2 piece guide rod, McCormic slims, best of parts. Parted with the sprinfield.

Had a buddy when I was doing WWII Gebirgsjager, deals would just drop into his lap...... I was soooooo jealous.
He paid a couple of hundred bucks for a WWII German Hi-Power with all German markings, people would give him antique WWII & WWI firearms...... He had one hell of a collection.
When we did Battle of the Bulge every year at Fort Indiantown Gap we would set up one room upstairs in the old WWII barracks as an armory.

Geez. I remember when you could buy those WW2 German k98 Mausers for $15 and $4 USPS shipping right to the door. I bought two of them in 1967. Lugers were going for $40-$60 bucks then too.

/—-/ FYI, in 1967, $15 was about a days take home pay for many folks. $60 was almost a weeks wages, so that wasn’t a cheap as it sounds today.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Damn Ring, that's an awesome collection. Lucky guy getting those deals!

 

[Shawnee_b]

/—-/ FYI, in 1967, $15 was about a days take home pay for many folks. $60 was almost a weeks wages, so that wasn’t a cheap as it sounds today.

Damn, memories flooding back. In 75 I drove a truck 5 days, 10 hr days for $80 a week salary, went to $100. Paid in cash.

 

[Ringel05]

Damn Ring, that's an awesome collection. Lucky guy getting those deals!

That's not all his, the pistols are all his but the rest are either unit member owned or (mostly) our commander owned. Brian, our commander and founder of the feast was a Full Bird fighter jockey in command of a fighter wing and a commercial pilot. He had a private hanger full with WW I, WW II and Civil War uniforms, equipment, etc including a German Ford 1 1/2 ton truck and a reproduction Kubelwagon. We had trouble finding a place for his Cessna........
Aside from the multitude of K-98s he had maybe 10 G 33-40s, 10-12 mp 39/40s (full auto), a Czech ZB 30 (full auto), 2 working (full auto) MG 42s, 1 (for parts) MG 42, 2 solid receiver MG 42s for display, 2 MG 34s (full auto), 1 MG 34 display, a PPS 43 (full auto) and I forget what else. That was just his WW II weapons collection.

 

[JGalt]

Dell dang me, this is what happens when you pack your toys away in the garage for a few years. I found my wad and patch punches, thick felt and other fabric for patches, beeswax, coconut oil, Crisco, Gulf Wax, recipes for lube, and all the other stuff I had packed away. I had made a bunch of greased wads in .36 and .44 caliber back then and found those too. I still have a five-pound block of beeswax that I bought from the Amish folks across the hill.

Yesterday I made some ingots of 50% beeswax and 50% coconut oil. I thin that down with olive oil to make patch lube for the rifles and chamber seal for the pistols. Or to make greased wads, I thicken it up with paraffin wax, drop the cut wads in it, squeeze out the excess, then let them dry.

I also remembered that using petroleum-base lubricants of the guns makes a mess. It's better to use a drop of olive oil on the internal parts and use Ballistol, which is not petroleum-based.

 

[Cellblock2429]

Damn Ring, that's an awesome collection. Lucky guy getting those deals!

That's not all his, the pistols are all his but the rest are either unit member owned or (mostly) our commander owned. Brian, our commander and founder of the feast was a Full Bird fighter jockey in command of a fighter wing and a commercial pilot. He had a private hanger full with WW I, WW II and Civil War uniforms, equipment, etc including a German Ford 1 1/2 ton truck and a reproduction Kubelwagon. We had trouble finding a place for his Cessna........
Aside from the multitude of K-98s he had maybe 10 G 33-40s, 10-12 mp 39/40s (full auto), a Czech ZB 30 (full auto), 2 working (full auto) MG 42s, 1 (for parts) MG 42, 2 solid receiver MG 42s for display, 2 MG 34s (full auto), 1 MG 34 display, a PPS 43 (full auto) and I forget what else. That was just his WW II weapons collection.

/——/ Speaking of the Kubelwagon, I was at an Air museum with a WWII section. They had a VW Thing painted as a Kubelwagon. The curator acted as if I exposed them in a huge scandal.

 

[Shawnee_b]

That's not all his, the pistols are all his but the rest are either unit member owned or (mostly) our commander owned. Brian, our commander and founder of the feast was a Full Bird fighter jockey in command of a fighter wing and a commercial pilot. He had a private hanger full with WW I, WW II and Civil War uniforms, equipment, etc including a German Ford 1 1/2 ton truck and a reproduction Kubelwagon. We had trouble finding a place for his Cessna........
Aside from the multitude of K-98s he had maybe 10 G 33-40s, 10-12 mp 39/40s (full auto), a Czech ZB 30 (full auto), 2 working (full auto) MG 42s, 1 (for parts) MG 42, 2 solid receiver MG 42s for display, 2 MG 34s (full auto), 1 MG 34 display, a PPS 43 (full auto) and I forget what else. That was just his WW II weapons collection.

Damn I'm drooling!!!! Even over the Cessna, soloed a 150 back a bit.

The machine guns. Some people freak but why? When I was an 07ffl class2 sot I built myself a nice Polish PMKMS underfolder, full auto of course. Go to the range and people mouth dragging the gravel "wanna shoot it?" and hand them a 30 rounder. Hell 7.62x39 was $100/1000 then.

When they still had Hiram Maxim MG shoots in Maine, went every year. What a collection of autos and a 3" they opened with. Guy would drill a 55 drum at 100 yards every time. Ahhhh the MG, Mg42 especially. Love em, just buzz they fire so fast. Was called "hitlers chainsaw" or something like that? I have heard it said the sound made GI's go in the fetal position, I can believe that and prob would myself if it was pointed my way!