Motorcycle Cruisers - is there a Sine qua non?

[DGS49]

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

I don't think so. A cruiser must have forward pegs and be capable of having floorboards and highway bars or highway pegs. The seat-back, feet-forward riding position is a sine qua non* of a cruiser. This is why NOBODY accepted the old Honda Valkyrie as a "cruiser," or even its much-hyped but never-loved offspring, the Rune. The "boxer" design of the R1800 BMW prevents the essential riding position of a cruiser. Feet must be below the butt, thus mandating a regular, street-bike riding position. It is a lot of things, but it ain't no cruiser.

Anybody else care to weigh in?

_____________________
* Sorry. "sine qua non" is a latin expression meaning approximately, "without which nothing," and it means in this context absolutely mandatory.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

It looks like they dusted off one of their old Wehrmacht designs

 

[Missourian]

Not a Harley guy and definitely not a BMW guy...but in the post-Wuhan Virus buying cycle it's likely to be America first. Poor timing for BMW.

 

[Canon Shooter]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

 

[okfine]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

I don't think so. A cruiser must have forward pegs and be capable of having floorboards and highway bars or highway pegs. The seat-back, feet-forward riding position is a sine qua non* of a cruiser. This is why NOBODY accepted the old Honda Valkyrie as a "cruiser," or even its much-hyped but never-loved offspring, the Rune. The "boxer" design of the R1800 BMW prevents the essential riding position of a cruiser. Feet must be below the butt, thus mandating a regular, street-bike riding position. It is a lot of things, but it ain't no cruiser.

Anybody else care to weigh in?

_____________________
* Sorry. "sine qua non" is a latin expression meaning approximately, "without which nothing," and it means in this context absolutely mandatory.

I would ride it. Doubt I would buy one. MC sales in the U.S. are bad. Less and less riders.

 

[Ringel05]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

People and companies actually do invest in fading product lines because they don't see the fade or don't want to see the fade or think they can turn it around. I'm part of the cruiser crowd, we're dying off and the younger generations aren't buying cruisers, those are their parents and grandparent's bikes. Besides many just don't have the income to afford that expense. This was a cruiser town, two Harley dealerships and an Indian dealership that were all busy, one of the Harley dealerships just closed it doors a few months ago.

 

[Canon Shooter]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

People and companies actually do invest in fading product lines because they don't see the fade or don't want to see the fade or think they can turn it around. I'm part of the cruiser crowd, we're dying off and the younger generations aren't buying cruisers, those are their parents and grandparent's bikes. Besides many just don't have the income to afford that expense. This was a cruiser town, two Harley dealerships and an Indian dealership that were all busy, one of the Harley dealerships just closed it doors a few months ago.

I don't see Harley going anywhere anytime soon. Events like Sturgis in South Dakota and Bike Week and Biketoberfest just south of me in Daytona get bigger and bigger every year. Of course, there are a lot of bikes at all of those that aren't Harley's, but the majority of them certainly seem to be...

 

[Ringel05]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

People and companies actually do invest in fading product lines because they don't see the fade or don't want to see the fade or think they can turn it around. I'm part of the cruiser crowd, we're dying off and the younger generations aren't buying cruisers, those are their parents and grandparent's bikes. Besides many just don't have the income to afford that expense. This was a cruiser town, two Harley dealerships and an Indian dealership that were all busy, one of the Harley dealerships just closed it doors a few months ago.

I don't see Harley going anywhere anytime soon. Events like Sturgis in South Dakota and Bike Week and Biketoberfest just south of me in Daytona get bigger and bigger every year. Of course, there are a lot of bikes at all of those that aren't Harley's, but the majority of them certainly seem to be...

The last five years Harley sales have been flat or they have lost money, this is true for Indian as well. It's not like they're going to die off immediately, there's still a market for cruisers it's just that the market is shrinking rather fast.

 

[gipper]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

I don't think so. A cruiser must have forward pegs and be capable of having floorboards and highway bars or highway pegs. The seat-back, feet-forward riding position is a sine qua non* of a cruiser. This is why NOBODY accepted the old Honda Valkyrie as a "cruiser," or even its much-hyped but never-loved offspring, the Rune. The "boxer" design of the R1800 BMW prevents the essential riding position of a cruiser. Feet must be below the butt, thus mandating a regular, street-bike riding position. It is a lot of things, but it ain't no cruiser.

Anybody else care to weigh in?

_____________________
* Sorry. "sine qua non" is a latin expression meaning approximately, "without which nothing," and it means in this context absolutely mandatory.

The huge muffler looks ridiculous.

 

[Canon Shooter]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

People and companies actually do invest in fading product lines because they don't see the fade or don't want to see the fade or think they can turn it around. I'm part of the cruiser crowd, we're dying off and the younger generations aren't buying cruisers, those are their parents and grandparent's bikes. Besides many just don't have the income to afford that expense. This was a cruiser town, two Harley dealerships and an Indian dealership that were all busy, one of the Harley dealerships just closed it doors a few months ago.

I don't see Harley going anywhere anytime soon. Events like Sturgis in South Dakota and Bike Week and Biketoberfest just south of me in Daytona get bigger and bigger every year. Of course, there are a lot of bikes at all of those that aren't Harley's, but the majority of them certainly seem to be...

The last five years Harley sales have been flat or they have lost money, this is true for Indian as well. It's not like they're going to die off immediately, there's still a market for cruisers it's just that the market is shrinking rather fast.

I've heard similar comments for the last 20 years, about how Harleys were a thing of the past and sales were low and how they were on their way to going the way of the dinosaur.

I'll believe it when I see it...

 

[Oddball]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

I don't think so. A cruiser must have forward pegs and be capable of having floorboards and highway bars or highway pegs. The seat-back, feet-forward riding position is a sine qua non* of a cruiser. This is why NOBODY accepted the old Honda Valkyrie as a "cruiser," or even its much-hyped but never-loved offspring, the Rune. The "boxer" design of the R1800 BMW prevents the essential riding position of a cruiser. Feet must be below the butt, thus mandating a regular, street-bike riding position. It is a lot of things, but it ain't no cruiser.

Anybody else care to weigh in?

_____________________
* Sorry. "sine qua non" is a latin expression meaning approximately, "without which nothing," and it means in this context absolutely mandatory.

Don't like the torquey feel of the boxer....The K engine is more to my liking.

IMO, the classic 1200 Goldwings pretty much got everything right....Of the modern bikes, I'd go with a 1500 Valkyrie any day.

 

[Ringel05]

View attachment 327782

BMW has come out with a BEAUTIFUL new bike that they hope will capture some of Harley's market. Harley's customer base is - sorry to say - aging out and literally dying off, but they have one thing that the other manufacturers covet: MONEY. They can afford to buy whatever fucking bike strikes their fancy, cost be damned.

Is that the R18? I've heard about it, but have yet to see it in the flesh.

I don't know that I would agree that Harley's customer base is dying off. Our local dealer, Adamec Harley Davidson, opened their fourth dealership here in north Florida last year. You don't invest that kind of money in something which is on the way out. They've been a dealer for 89 years, and they show no signs of going anywhere anytime soon.

In comparison, BMW Motorcycles has a single dealer in northeastern Florida.

But, yeah, we (their customer base) do seem to have more of the disposable income that's necessary to buy a nice Harley. Lord knows they ain't cheap...

From all indications, this new Beemer is powerful, efficient, handles (relatively) well, and will draw a crowd wherever it comes to rest.

But is it a credible CRUISER?

Well, one thing that riding position does is promote better/safer handling. If you get into a problem, you don't want your feet out in front of you.

But, no, I wouldn't consider it a cruiser.

I think it draws a crowd simply because it's new. It's a departure for BMW. It's like when Harley made motocross bikes. They were a very different direction for Harley, but they sure drew a crowd early on. This new BMW doesn't really blow me away, though. It's reminiscent of most other bikes I see on the road. I'm not saying it's a bad looking bike at all. It's just... common.

I'm partial to touring bikes, and BMW has a really nice one in the K 1600. A friend and his wife have them and, damn, if anything could drag my ass off my Harleys for good it could easily be that bike.

And, since we're talking about BMW's, a guy a few doors down from me recently bought a BMW C 650 GT. It's a scooter, but holy shit is that thing quick!

I'm currently looking at the Honda Gold Wing with the DCT. I'll have to make a bit more room in the garage, but it's going to be a nice addition. Here's a video of a guy doing a test drive on one:

People and companies actually do invest in fading product lines because they don't see the fade or don't want to see the fade or think they can turn it around. I'm part of the cruiser crowd, we're dying off and the younger generations aren't buying cruisers, those are their parents and grandparent's bikes. Besides many just don't have the income to afford that expense. This was a cruiser town, two Harley dealerships and an Indian dealership that were all busy, one of the Harley dealerships just closed it doors a few months ago.

I don't see Harley going anywhere anytime soon. Events like Sturgis in South Dakota and Bike Week and Biketoberfest just south of me in Daytona get bigger and bigger every year. Of course, there are a lot of bikes at all of those that aren't Harley's, but the majority of them certainly seem to be...

The last five years Harley sales have been flat or they have lost money, this is true for Indian as well. It's not like they're going to die off immediately, there's still a market for cruisers it's just that the market is shrinking rather fast.

I've heard similar comments for the last 20 years, about how Harleys were a thing of the past and sales were low and how they were on their way to going the way of the dinosaur.

I'll believe it when I see it...

I heard none of that until recently. Only time will tell but then again I'm not claiming the demise of Harley, never did, I simply stating that market trends show the (severely) slowing market for cruisers. Harley's working on a Cafe and a Flat Tracker to cater to the younger market.
Oh and the Live Wire is still being offered but at $20K........ A lot of Millenials don't have that kind of disposable income.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Had 5 early boxer BM's (70's stuff) 77R100RS way cool. 73 toaster tank R50/5 coolest!

Several Harleys too. Nothing now, I'm done.

What's gonna kill HD is this talk of moving to China. HD riders won't buy Chi, they will go Buells, Victories, Indian anything made in USA not fuking china.

 

[DGS49]

The picture I posted above is not the best. It is a bad-ass looking bike, especially in black.

My opinion on Cruisers may be slanted by the fact that I cannot ride for extended periods with by knees @ 90 degrees; my legs start to cramp and hurt like hell. I was lucky to find my current 1800GW, which has highway pegs mounted perfectly for me. It is the only GW I've ever seen with this setup, and as far as I'm concerned there is no better bike (for my purposes) on earth than the Goldwing.

But if you haven't ridden a cruiser with floorboards and a heel-toe shifter, you haven't ridden a comfortable bike. That is the ultimate. And this new Beemer CANNOT be set up like that. Which is the point of my posting.

 

[Shawnee_b]

My R100RS was a great bike but sure had to get use to the riding position!

Best was my 91 FLHTC HD. (orange and brown) Floorboards, comfy seat and position, 1344cc, Vance and Hines pipes sounded awesome.

Stock image but close.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Stock image my R100RS. Much different than a regular R100. Dual disc front, bigger carbs, full faired. Had the Krauser bags too and a tank bag made of elephant hide.