Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

[Confounding]

Awesome.

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

The amount of electricity generated using solar panels stands to expand as much as sixfold by 2030 as the cost of production falls below competing natural gas and coal-fired plants, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.

Solar plants using photovoltaic technology could account for 8 percent to 13 percent of global electricity produced in 2030, compared with 1.2 percent at the end of last year, the Abu Dhabi-based industry group said in a report Wednesday. The average cost of electricity from a photovoltaic system is forecast to plunge as much as 59 percent by 2025, making solar the cheapest form of power generation “in an increasing number of cases,” it said.

 

[irosie91]

Awesome.

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

The amount of electricity generated using solar panels stands to expand as much as sixfold by 2030 as the cost of production falls below competing natural gas and coal-fired plants, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.

Solar plants using photovoltaic technology could account for 8 percent to 13 percent of global electricity produced in 2030, compared with 1.2 percent at the end of last year, the Abu Dhabi-based industry group said in a report Wednesday. The average cost of electricity from a photovoltaic system is forecast to plunge as much as 59 percent by 2025, making solar the cheapest form of power generation “in an increasing number of cases,” it said.

I have always had a soft spot in my heart for the SUN----the little house in which I now live----had one of them glass sun light domes in the ceiling near the kitchen----but it had to be obliterated in fixing the damned bathroom----(Or I would not have a bathtub) I was heart broken. I want them thar sun dome back in my little house--------I DO NOT LIKE ELECTRIC LIGHTS. (of course---I do like having a bathtub) -------I even have a washing machine so that I do not have to stomp on sheets in the bathtub----which I now have. -----actually---I favor an ADOBO hut near a stream-------and a clay oven--------
somewhere-------anywhere-----maybe in central park

 

[Ridgerunner]

I don't know about you folks but my family has been using the sun for generations...

 

[IsaacNewton]

An endless free source of energy. How could anyone have a problem with that.

 

[Ridgerunner]

An endless free source of energy. How could anyone have a problem with that.

As long as the long arm of the Government has away to tax it...

 

[SixFoot]

Too bad us regular plebes can't afford solar power.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The only way that solar power will become the cheapest resource anytime soon will be to make fossil fuels more expensive through over regulation. It would be nice if it was other wise. Depending on oil from foreign countries is a National security risk

 

[flacaltenn]

An endless free source of energy. How could anyone have a problem with that.

You would. From about 6PM to 10AM most days and days when the sun don't shine or when a cloud rolls by during your hernia operation.

Solar PV is a daytime PEAKING technology. It is useful for balancing out DAYTIME PEAK demand. In the CONUS, the demand at 10PM is 80% of what is during the daytime peak. That's why solar is never gonna be more than 12 or 15% of the supply..

 

[Weatherman2020]

Awesome.

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

The amount of electricity generated using solar panels stands to expand as much as sixfold by 2030 as the cost of production falls below competing natural gas and coal-fired plants, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.

Solar plants using photovoltaic technology could account for 8 percent to 13 percent of global electricity produced in 2030, compared with 1.2 percent at the end of last year, the Abu Dhabi-based industry group said in a report Wednesday. The average cost of electricity from a photovoltaic system is forecast to plunge as much as 59 percent by 2025, making solar the cheapest form of power generation “in an increasing number of cases,” it said.

The brand new solar plant in the Calif desert puts out more CO2 than a coal fired power plant.....

 

[Weatherman2020]

Net metering in Calif is coming to an end soon. No reason for people to go solar then.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Right, because in con-land humans haven't learned how to store electrical energy yet.

I mean wtf at least put forth an argument that wasn't proven wrong 150 years ago.

 

[Searcher44]

Awesome.

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

The amount of electricity generated using solar panels stands to expand as much as sixfold by 2030 as the cost of production falls below competing natural gas and coal-fired plants, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.

Solar plants using photovoltaic technology could account for 8 percent to 13 percent of global electricity produced in 2030, compared with 1.2 percent at the end of last year, the Abu Dhabi-based industry group said in a report Wednesday. The average cost of electricity from a photovoltaic system is forecast to plunge as much as 59 percent by 2025, making solar the cheapest form of power generation “in an increasing number of cases,” it said.

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

 

[Confounding]

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

The naysayers are ridiculous. Solar power is improving daily; it's only a matter of time until we can store enough energy from the sun to use through the night. We're currently using dinosaur sludge to get energy that originally came from the sun, and they think it's impossible that it will eventually be more efficient to get it directly from the source. History will remember them as fools that hindered human progress.

 

[flacaltenn]

Right, because in con-land humans haven't learned how to store electrical energy yet.

I mean wtf at least put forth an argument that wasn't proven wrong 150 years ago.

Grid scale storage is an environmental non-starter. The amount of toxic or polluting material with limited lifetime creates a whole new and large problem. Not to mention cost. To get a single grocery store thru the night would require a couple tractor trailer size battery plants. Any thinking of that solution as "clean or green" -- needs to have their head examined and their wallets emptied.

I've posted a picture of the world's largest "grid scale" storage site many times in this forum. Exists in China circa 2013. Cost $500 Million. Is a complex of buildings coveraging several acres and ONLY has the capacity to store energy for about 6000 American sized homes for about 6 hours. The batteries will die in 8 to 12 years and the toxic stream of waste and maintenance costs will be significant.

China Sets New Record For Renewable Energy Storage

Free free to waste another post about how backwards and con-like I am..
It's amusing..

 

[flacaltenn]

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

The naysayers are ridiculous. Solar power is improving daily; it's only a matter of time until we can store enough energy from the sun to use through the night. We're currently using dinosaur sludge to get energy that originally came from the sun, and they think it's impossible that it will eventually be more efficient to get it directly from the source. History will remember them as fools that hindered human progress.

The commercial versions of PV panels have not seen dramatic improvement in about a decade now. Prices have plunged making it a MATURE technology. And YES --- in lab -- if money is no object -- you can build more efficient panels. Ones that NEVER be used for commercial use -- but might be on a Mars Rover or a military vehicle.

But to do that -- you go mine a LOT of Arsenic or platinum or other rare materials. Because Gallium Arsenide has been known to boost PV panel performance since the 60s. There's no free lunch in actual design of this stuff.. And speaking of fools -- these "clean, green" ideas start getting REALLY dirty when you watermelons start advocating a MEGA ton waste stream of batteries or covering up the bird of prey deaths from wind farms, or wanting to mine Arsenic to make better solar panels.

 

[Confounding]

Free free to waste another post about how backwards and con-like I am..
It's amusing..

Sure, will do; what don't you get about the progression of technology? There are very limiting factors right now, we get it, but those factors will be worked on. We came into the 20th century on horseback and left it in a space shuttle. Do you really think we won't figure out far superior methods of storage and use? Technology is advancing exponentially with no signs of slowing down. We will get better and better at it the more we work at it. Solar and nuclear energy will dominate the future.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Awesome.

Solar Power to Grow Sixfold as Sun Becoming Cheapest Resource

The amount of electricity generated using solar panels stands to expand as much as sixfold by 2030 as the cost of production falls below competing natural gas and coal-fired plants, according to the International Renewable Energy Agency.

Solar plants using photovoltaic technology could account for 8 percent to 13 percent of global electricity produced in 2030, compared with 1.2 percent at the end of last year, the Abu Dhabi-based industry group said in a report Wednesday. The average cost of electricity from a photovoltaic system is forecast to plunge as much as 59 percent by 2025, making solar the cheapest form of power generation “in an increasing number of cases,” it said.

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

That is one thing most don't realize. Soon enough things like oil and coal will run out anyway. And once gone they are gone for all of eternity, there will be no more. In fact the era in human history where we burned oil and coal for energy will be a very tiny blip in history once it's over. Maybe 200 years from start to finish. People will wonder what it was like to 'drive a car that 'burned' gasoline'.

 

[Searcher44]

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

The naysayers are ridiculous. Solar power is improving daily; it's only a matter of time until we can store enough energy from the sun to use through the night. We're currently using dinosaur sludge to get energy that originally came from the sun, and they think it's impossible that it will eventually be more efficient to get it directly from the source. History will remember them as fools that hindered human progress.

The commercial versions of PV panels have not seen dramatic improvement in about a decade now. Prices have plunged making it a MATURE technology. And YES --- in lab -- if money is no object -- you can build more efficient panels. Ones that NEVER be used for commercial use -- but might be on a Mars Rover or a military vehicle.

But to do that -- you go mine a LOT of Arsenic or platinum or other rare materials. Because Gallium Arsenide has been known to boost PV panel performance since the 60s. There's no free lunch in actual design of this stuff.. And speaking of fools -- these "clean, green" ideas start getting REALLY dirty when you watermelons start advocating a MEGA ton waste stream of batteries or covering up the bird of prey deaths from wind farms, or wanting to mine Arsenic to make better solar panels.

First - bird deaths. An Environment Canada study listed the top ten causes of avian mortality. #1 - cats. While we think our sweet pet is just out wandering the alley ways catcams show that it may be out killing 10 - 12 birds a night. Responsible for +/- 200 million deaths per year. Next - powerlines, collisions and electrocutions. 25 mil. #3 collisions with houses or buildings, 25 mil. #4 Collisions with vehicles, 14 mil.
The list goes through pesticides, agricultural mowing, forestry, game bird hunting - 5 mil. and communication towers - 220,000. Windfarms didn't make the list of the top 9. They say 16,700 birds died in their fans but caution turbines are expected to grow 10 fold over the next decade. U.S. stats could be expected to mirror ours I expect when adjusted for numbers. I'm not sure how the special case of Birds of Prey would fit in, no doubt wind farms would be more deadly proportionately for them because of their size and habits.

Okay, I've heard you describe solar as a "mature" technology before. I still can't see solar fitting into that definition. Every year there has been improvements in it's efficiency and research and development is accelerating not decreasing or remaining stagnant.

The top purple (at 46% efficiency) I believe are solar cells with Gallium arsenide chemistry. You can see the steady increase in efficiency over the last decade or so. The short orange line at the bottom is the newest technology in the spotlight. Gizmag says "Researchers at the University of Toronto have manufactured and tested a new type of colloidal quantum dots (CQD), that, unlike previous attempts, doesn't lose performance as they keep in contact with oxygen. The development could lead to much cheaper or even spray-on solar cells, as well as better LEDs, lasers and weather satellites." It's a nano technology where "A quantum dot is a nanocrystal made out of a semicondutor material which is small enough to take advantage of the laws of quantum mechanics" And "In the case of solar cells, quantum dots are used as the absorbing photovoltaic material. The dots have the advantage of having a band gap that can be tuned simply by changing the size of the nanoparticles, and so they can be easily made to absorb different parts of the solar spectrum." At this early stage Quantum Dot efficiency is very low but "Although eight percent efficiency is much less than commercially-available panels, quantum dot solar cells ultimately have the potential to become more efficient than their silicon counterparts because a single photon can be made to excite multiple electrons inside the cell.
With colloidal quantum dots, in which the nanoparticles are evenly distributed, we may eventually have high-efficiency spray-on solar cells that we could apply on our roofs to generate our very own power supply". So with these new break-throughs and the intensive R and D going on I just can't agree with your description of Solar being a "mature" technology.

These panels are much more efficient (dramatically so I would say) than the +/-15% panels produced for the last decade.

No good reason for that, I just liked the graphic.

Domestic use of battery storage is starting to, and will revolutionize the home power production scene.

Elon Musk making the pitch for his line of Solar Energy storage system.

The missing link
Energy storage has been described as the missing link of solar energy adoption. A report from Deutsche Bank this year said solar energy storage would be cheap enough to be deployed on a large scale within five years as a result of a yearly cost reduction of 20% to 30% in the price of lithium-ion batteries.

Is your demonizing of Arsenic compounds a scare tactic? Because you know that it has been extensively used in industry for various processes for a long long time. Even in medicine.
"In 1910, German biologist Paul Ehrlich (1854-1915) invented the first drug that would cure syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease. This drug, called salvarsan, is a compound of arsenic. Its chemical name is arsphenamine".

Of course nobody likes the idea of a deadly poison being mined and used in this "the cleaner the better" solution. Hopefully the new technologies will make that unnecessary for solar panels. Anyway, to conclude, I'll just say I think your critique of the industry is up the creek without a paddle, currents of progress taking you where they will, not where you imagine.

 

[IsaacNewton]

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

The naysayers are ridiculous. Solar power is improving daily; it's only a matter of time until we can store enough energy from the sun to use through the night. We're currently using dinosaur sludge to get energy that originally came from the sun, and they think it's impossible that it will eventually be more efficient to get it directly from the source. History will remember them as fools that hindered human progress.

The commercial versions of PV panels have not seen dramatic improvement in about a decade now. Prices have plunged making it a MATURE technology. And YES --- in lab -- if money is no object -- you can build more efficient panels. Ones that NEVER be used for commercial use -- but might be on a Mars Rover or a military vehicle.

But to do that -- you go mine a LOT of Arsenic or platinum or other rare materials. Because Gallium Arsenide has been known to boost PV panel performance since the 60s. There's no free lunch in actual design of this stuff.. And speaking of fools -- these "clean, green" ideas start getting REALLY dirty when you watermelons start advocating a MEGA ton waste stream of batteries or covering up the bird of prey deaths from wind farms, or wanting to mine Arsenic to make better solar panels.

First - bird deaths. An Environment Canada study listed the top ten causes of avian mortality. #1 - cats. While we think our sweet pet is just out wandering the alley ways catcams show that it may be out killing 10 - 12 birds a night. Responsible for +/- 200 million deaths per year. Next - powerlines, collisions and electrocutions. 25 mil. #3 collisions with houses or buildings, 25 mil. #4 Collisions with vehicles, 14 mil.
The list goes through pesticides, agricultural mowing, forestry, game bird hunting - 5 mil. and communication towers - 220,000. Windfarms didn't make the list of the top 9. They say 16,700 birds died in their fans but caution turbines are expected to grow 10 fold over the next decade. U.S. stats could be expected to mirror ours I expect when adjusted for numbers. I'm not sure how the special case of Birds of Prey would fit in, no doubt wind farms would be more deadly proportionately for them because of their size and habits.

Okay, I've heard you describe solar as a "mature" technology before. I still can't see solar fitting into that definition. Every year there has been improvements in it's efficiency and research and development is accelerating not decreasing or remaining stagnant.

The top purple (at 46% efficiency) I believe are solar cells with Gallium arsenide chemistry. You can see the steady increase in efficiency over the last decade or so. The short orange line at the bottom is the newest technology in the spotlight. Gizmag says "Researchers at the University of Toronto have manufactured and tested a new type of colloidal quantum dots (CQD), that, unlike previous attempts, doesn't lose performance as they keep in contact with oxygen. The development could lead to much cheaper or even spray-on solar cells, as well as better LEDs, lasers and weather satellites." It's a nano technology where "A quantum dot is a nanocrystal made out of a semicondutor material which is small enough to take advantage of the laws of quantum mechanics" And "In the case of solar cells, quantum dots are used as the absorbing photovoltaic material. The dots have the advantage of having a band gap that can be tuned simply by changing the size of the nanoparticles, and so they can be easily made to absorb different parts of the solar spectrum." At this early stage Quantum Dot efficiency is very low but "Although eight percent efficiency is much less than commercially-available panels, quantum dot solar cells ultimately have the potential to become more efficient than their silicon counterparts because a single photon can be made to excite multiple electrons inside the cell.
With colloidal quantum dots, in which the nanoparticles are evenly distributed, we may eventually have high-efficiency spray-on solar cells that we could apply on our roofs to generate our very own power supply". So with these new break-throughs and the intensive R and D going on I just can't agree with your description of Solar being a "mature" technology.

These panels are much more efficient (dramatically so I would say) than the +/-15% panels produced for the last decade.

No good reason for that, I just liked the graphic.

Domestic use of battery storage is starting to, and will revolutionize the home power production scene.

Elon Musk making the pitch for his line of Solar Energy storage system.

The missing link
Energy storage has been described as the missing link of solar energy adoption. A report from Deutsche Bank this year said solar energy storage would be cheap enough to be deployed on a large scale within five years as a result of a yearly cost reduction of 20% to 30% in the price of lithium-ion batteries.

Is your demonizing of Arsenic compounds a scare tactic? Because you know that it has been extensively used in industry for various processes for a long long time. Even in medicine.
"In 1910, German biologist Paul Ehrlich (1854-1915) invented the first drug that would cure syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease. This drug, called salvarsan, is a compound of arsenic. Its chemical name is arsphenamine".

Of course nobody likes the idea of a deadly poison being mined and used in this "the cleaner the better" solution. Hopefully the new technologies will make that unnecessary for solar panels. Anyway, to conclude, I'll just say I think your critique of the industry is up the creek without a paddle, currents of progress taking you where they will, not where you imagine.

Very informative.

The various toxins will be replaced or engineered out of battery production as they are in everything else in time. The human race has no choice, it has to quickly convert to non-carbon renewable energy.

 

[flacaltenn]

The "never!" and "impossible!" crowd will be flashing their slide rules again. Improved storage? Smarter grids? Progress? Duh...
It will work, it will take time. Integrating wind and solar and biomass and yes fossil fuels for a while will have to work. After all eventually somewhere in humanity's future the non-renewables will run out (by definition). What then?

The naysayers are ridiculous. Solar power is improving daily; it's only a matter of time until we can store enough energy from the sun to use through the night. We're currently using dinosaur sludge to get energy that originally came from the sun, and they think it's impossible that it will eventually be more efficient to get it directly from the source. History will remember them as fools that hindered human progress.

The commercial versions of PV panels have not seen dramatic improvement in about a decade now. Prices have plunged making it a MATURE technology. And YES --- in lab -- if money is no object -- you can build more efficient panels. Ones that NEVER be used for commercial use -- but might be on a Mars Rover or a military vehicle.

But to do that -- you go mine a LOT of Arsenic or platinum or other rare materials. Because Gallium Arsenide has been known to boost PV panel performance since the 60s. There's no free lunch in actual design of this stuff.. And speaking of fools -- these "clean, green" ideas start getting REALLY dirty when you watermelons start advocating a MEGA ton waste stream of batteries or covering up the bird of prey deaths from wind farms, or wanting to mine Arsenic to make better solar panels.

First - bird deaths. An Environment Canada study listed the top ten causes of avian mortality. #1 - cats. While we think our sweet pet is just out wandering the alley ways catcams show that it may be out killing 10 - 12 birds a night. Responsible for +/- 200 million deaths per year. Next - powerlines, collisions and electrocutions. 25 mil. #3 collisions with houses or buildings, 25 mil. #4 Collisions with vehicles, 14 mil.
The list goes through pesticides, agricultural mowing, forestry, game bird hunting - 5 mil. and communication towers - 220,000. Windfarms didn't make the list of the top 9. They say 16,700 birds died in their fans but caution turbines are expected to grow 10 fold over the next decade. U.S. stats could be expected to mirror ours I expect when adjusted for numbers. I'm not sure how the special case of Birds of Prey would fit in, no doubt wind farms would be more deadly proportionately for them because of their size and habits.

Okay, I've heard you describe solar as a "mature" technology before. I still can't see solar fitting into that definition. Every year there has been improvements in it's efficiency and research and development is accelerating not decreasing or remaining stagnant.

The top purple (at 46% efficiency) I believe are solar cells with Gallium arsenide chemistry. You can see the steady increase in efficiency over the last decade or so. The short orange line at the bottom is the newest technology in the spotlight. Gizmag says "Researchers at the University of Toronto have manufactured and tested a new type of colloidal quantum dots (CQD), that, unlike previous attempts, doesn't lose performance as they keep in contact with oxygen. The development could lead to much cheaper or even spray-on solar cells, as well as better LEDs, lasers and weather satellites." It's a nano technology where "A quantum dot is a nanocrystal made out of a semicondutor material which is small enough to take advantage of the laws of quantum mechanics" And "In the case of solar cells, quantum dots are used as the absorbing photovoltaic material. The dots have the advantage of having a band gap that can be tuned simply by changing the size of the nanoparticles, and so they can be easily made to absorb different parts of the solar spectrum." At this early stage Quantum Dot efficiency is very low but "Although eight percent efficiency is much less than commercially-available panels, quantum dot solar cells ultimately have the potential to become more efficient than their silicon counterparts because a single photon can be made to excite multiple electrons inside the cell.
With colloidal quantum dots, in which the nanoparticles are evenly distributed, we may eventually have high-efficiency spray-on solar cells that we could apply on our roofs to generate our very own power supply". So with these new break-throughs and the intensive R and D going on I just can't agree with your description of Solar being a "mature" technology.

These panels are much more efficient (dramatically so I would say) than the +/-15% panels produced for the last decade.

No good reason for that, I just liked the graphic.

Domestic use of battery storage is starting to, and will revolutionize the home power production scene.

Elon Musk making the pitch for his line of Solar Energy storage system.

The missing link
Energy storage has been described as the missing link of solar energy adoption. A report from Deutsche Bank this year said solar energy storage would be cheap enough to be deployed on a large scale within five years as a result of a yearly cost reduction of 20% to 30% in the price of lithium-ion batteries.

Is your demonizing of Arsenic compounds a scare tactic? Because you know that it has been extensively used in industry for various processes for a long long time. Even in medicine.
"In 1910, German biologist Paul Ehrlich (1854-1915) invented the first drug that would cure syphilis, a sexually transmitted disease. This drug, called salvarsan, is a compound of arsenic. Its chemical name is arsphenamine".

Of course nobody likes the idea of a deadly poison being mined and used in this "the cleaner the better" solution. Hopefully the new technologies will make that unnecessary for solar panels. Anyway, to conclude, I'll just say I think your critique of the industry is up the creek without a paddle, currents of progress taking you where they will, not where you imagine.

Unlike the left -- I don't "scare" people. MINING is a dirty operation. It's NOT a couple micrograms of arsenic that actually are ESSENTIAL to life. The EPA shuts down water supplies at a max concentration. IF you are just HOPING you can take ANOTHER element from the same column in the periodic chart to make a 3 - 5 semiconductor -- I remind you that H2O and H2S are no way near the same.

And you can store the spiel on bird deaths. With windfarms the argument is NOT about numbers. It's about HABITAT. Owls, hawks, Eagles are territorial and windfarms poke big HOLES in their ranges... It also unduly effects birds of preys. Both attracts them and denies them habitat. While the govt is prosecuting EVERY ONE else for eagle deaths -- they are HELPING the windfarms bag them and shut up about it..

Same with the solar death ray designs that were plopped right in the middle of migratory fly-ways. And look like lakes from the air. No waiver too important to deny to a GREEN project. IS there??