Socialists take control of Portugal

[Avatar4321]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20050221/ap_on_re_eu/portugal_election

LISBON, Portugal - Socialist leader Jose Socrates was expected to take his first formal step Tuesday toward becoming Portugal's fourth prime minister in three years, meeting with the country's president after his center-left party won in a landslide.

The Socialists, who have promised to modernize Portugal's backward economy, earned 45 percent of the vote Sunday to secure 120 seats in the 230-seat legislature — the party's biggest win at the polls.

Why is it socialists havent figured out that socialism doesnt work have positive effects on the economy? I suppose its true things in Portugal arent that great now so im not surprised the people wanted something else but socialists have one agenda: increase taxes.

Sadly we also lost another nation in support of rebuilding iraq here. too bad.

 

[theim]

Well good for them. I mean, socialism worked wonders for Russia, China, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. And the rest of the People's Republic of Europe has such a delightfully stagnant economy.

I'm sure with socialism, the 30th time's the charm.

 

[theim]

Seriosuly though, Europe is depressing me. It's like watching your parents grow old and senile.

 

[musicman]

Well good for them. I mean, socialism worked wonders for Russia, China, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. And the rest of the People's Republic of Europe has such a delightfully stagnant economy.

I'm sure with socialism, the 30th time's the charm.

Excellent point, theim. Insanity is repeating the same behavior over and over, and expecting different results.

 

[Avatar4321]

Well good for them. I mean, socialism worked wonders for Russia, China, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. And the rest of the People's Republic of Europe has such a delightfully stagnant economy.

I'm sure with socialism, the 30th time's the charm.

You forgot how well the National Socialist German worker party did wonders for Germany and Europe during the late 1930s and early 1940s.

Interesting article for anyone who wants to read. Hitler was a Socialist

 

[musicman]

Fascinating article, Avatar - although, I confess - I'm reading it in small bites. I was especially glad to see some astute observations by Ludwig Von Mises. In addition to being a man who got out of Germany a heartbeat ahead of the Gestapo, I consider him one of the earliest martyrs in the struggle against the AMERICAN variety of socialism - to wit, Political Correctness.

 

[Avatar4321]

Interesting facts about Hitler from that page

HITLER also banned medical experiments on animals, but not, as we know to our grief, on Jewish children. And he created many national parks, particularly for Germany's "sacred" forests.

Is it me or does that just remind you of PETA. I mean they dont experiment on jewish children, that i know of. But they put animal life above human life alot of the time. Or the environmentalist extremists who put the lives of fish over the lives of humans.

Or a quote from Hitler himself:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)

But no one tell ACLU that Hitler claimed to be a Socialist. He might have to reassess his position. that Nazis were not socialists.

 

[Avatar4321]

Tom Wolfe's biting essay on American intellectuals also summarizes the origins of Fascism and Nazism rather well. Here is one excerpt from it:

"Fascism" was, in fact, a Marxist coinage. Marxists borrowed the name of Mussolini's Italian party, the Fascisti, and applied it to Hitler's Nazis, adroitly papering over the fact that the Nazis, like Marxism's standard-bearers, the Soviet Communists, were revolutionary socialists. In fact, "Nazi" was (most annoyingly) shorthand for the National Socialist German Workers' Party. European Marxists successfully put over the idea that Nazism was the brutal, decadent last gasp of "capitalism."

{From the essay "In the Land of the Rococo Marxists" originally appearing in the June 2000 Harper's Monthly and reprinted in Wolfe's book Hooking Up.

Another interesting factoid. Im starting to think there have been two huge lies of the 20th century. 1)Democrats have done everything for blacks and Republicans have opposed it. and 2)Hitler was an extreme right winger. Fact is Hitler was a leftest. not as far as the communists but he was a socialist. Facism and Communism are two sides of the same coin, socialism.

 

[musicman]

Great points. And, like any other noteworthy socialist leader, Hitler found socialism a handy tool for duping a populace, in order that he might achieve his ultimate goal: unbridled power. Twentieth century history is a testament to the futility of this pipe dream. The voices of hundreds of millions of dead cry out a warning to those of us who still have a choice. George Orwell's "1984" should be required reading in the U.S., and those of us who understand Orwell's terrified plea to humanity should volunteer to explain it to the slow ones.

 

[waltky]

Portugal collapses...

Portugal could require $107 billion bailout from EU-IMF
March 24, 2011 - The collapse of Portugal's government raised the likelihood of a bailout and set back efforts to beef up a financial rescue package for troubled European economies.

European leaders today postponed the approval of a beefed-up financial rescue package to allow some members to get their internal politics in order, bringing the euro zone's path to economic recovery into greater question. Finland and Germany are facing critical elections in the next few weeks and their leaders are finding it increasingly hard to continue bailing out fellow European Union members. But the headline obstacle for EU chiefs to approve the “grand bargain” was yesterday's collapse of the Portuguese government over unpopular austerity measures, which brought it a step closer to joining the ranks of Greece and Ireland in requesting funds.

A bailout for Portugal would likely be on the order of $107 billion, Eurogroup chief Jean-Claude Juncker told journalists in Brussels on the sidelines of the two-day summit that continues Friday. The EU and International Monetary Fund (IMF) have already lent $120 billion to Ireland and $156 billion to Greece. Portugal's collapse, and the EU's inability to find quick solutions to mounting problems, sent jitters across world markets.

EU leaders were expected to produce concrete measures to build confidence that the worst of the European debt crisis is over, including by increasing the effective lending capacity of the temporary bailout fund to $624 billion. That would be enough even to rescue Spain, the EU's indebted fourth-largest economy. The amount would remain in place until a permanent EU rescue fund of $993 billion is created by 2013.

But after today's meeting failed to formalize the package, analysts say, it appears all but certain that Europe is merely buying time before more countries need a bailout and at least one of them inevitably defaults on its debt, Greece being the prime candidate. “I think a default in unavoidable. The rationale has been one of providing liquidity, denying insolvency, and in doing that they are buying time,” says Citigroup senior European economist Giada Giani.

Portugal collapses

 

[JBeukema]

Why is it socialists havent figured out that socialism doesnt work have positive effects on the economy?

The economy got a lot better after socialist reforms were seen in the U.S. The minimum wage put enough money in the hand of the working class to enable he common man to afford a home and opened up new markets. Without the reforms that were seen thanks to the Wobblies et al., only the wealthiest Americans would be able to afford TVs, Walkmans, or cars. The rise of the middle class, and the resulting prosperity for the bourgeoisie is a direct result of socialist reforms.

 

[JBeukema]

Well good for them. I mean, socialism worked wonders for Russia, China, Vietnam, North Korea, and Cuba. And the rest of the People's Republic of Europe has such a delightfully stagnant economy.

I'm sure with socialism, the 30th time's the charm.

You forgot how well the National Socialist German worker party did wonders for Germany and Europe during the late 1930s and early 1940s.

Interesting article for anyone who wants to read. Hitler was a Socialist

403 Forbidden?

 

[JBeukema]

Hitler banned the Social Democratic Party

 

[Sallow]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...&u=/ap/20050221/ap_on_re_eu/portugal_election

LISBON, Portugal - Socialist leader Jose Socrates was expected to take his first formal step Tuesday toward becoming Portugal's fourth prime minister in three years, meeting with the country's president after his center-left party won in a landslide.

The Socialists, who have promised to modernize Portugal's backward economy, earned 45 percent of the vote Sunday to secure 120 seats in the 230-seat legislature — the party's biggest win at the polls.

Why is it socialists havent figured out that socialism doesnt work have positive effects on the economy? I suppose its true things in Portugal arent that great now so im not surprised the people wanted something else but socialists have one agenda: increase taxes.

Sadly we also lost another nation in support of rebuilding iraq here. too bad.

Taxation is socialism now?

Well that takes the cake.

- Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

 

[Sallow]

Great points. And, like any other noteworthy socialist leader, Hitler found socialism a handy tool for duping a populace, in order that he might achieve his ultimate goal: unbridled power. Twentieth century history is a testament to the futility of this pipe dream. The voices of hundreds of millions of dead cry out a warning to those of us who still have a choice. George Orwell's "1984" should be required reading in the U.S., and those of us who understand Orwell's terrified plea to humanity should volunteer to explain it to the slow ones.

Hitler wasn't a socialist. He was a fascist and a theocrat.

 

[Sallow]

Tom Wolfe's biting essay on American intellectuals also summarizes the origins of Fascism and Nazism rather well. Here is one excerpt from it:

"Fascism" was, in fact, a Marxist coinage. Marxists borrowed the name of Mussolini's Italian party, the Fascisti, and applied it to Hitler's Nazis, adroitly papering over the fact that the Nazis, like Marxism's standard-bearers, the Soviet Communists, were revolutionary socialists. In fact, "Nazi" was (most annoyingly) shorthand for the National Socialist German Workers' Party. European Marxists successfully put over the idea that Nazism was the brutal, decadent last gasp of "capitalism."

{From the essay "In the Land of the Rococo Marxists" originally appearing in the June 2000 Harper's Monthly and reprinted in Wolfe's book Hooking Up.

Another interesting factoid. Im starting to think there have been two huge lies of the 20th century. 1)Democrats have done everything for blacks and Republicans have opposed it. and 2)Hitler was an extreme right winger. Fact is Hitler was a leftest. not as far as the communists but he was a socialist. Facism and Communism are two sides of the same coin, socialism.

No they are not. Communism, Socialism and Fascism are completely different systems of running economies and government.

 

[germanguy]

Was Hitler a Socialist ?

I really doubt it.
His politics in some points took demands of the socialist parties, like 1st of May as a national hholiday.
On the other hand, trade unions were forbidden, union members ended in KZs etc.
Also average wages became lower in the 1930s and the working time became longer.

Hitler came to power in 1933 as head of a coalition between conservatives, nationalists and his party. So, the far right were obviously his partners, not the socialists or social democrats.
Not much llater he opened the Reichstag at the so-called "Day of Potsdam" where he put himself with his propaganda into the tradition of the prussian monarchy - hardly the move of a socialist.

Nonetheless, Hitler made a lot of laws, which fulfilled socialist demands, other were contrary to those.

In the end, National Socialism was fascism mixed with xenophobia, germanic mysticism (Himmler saw his SS in the tradition of the orders of monk-knights in the middle-ages) and socialist elements.

That is why every communist, socialist and social democrat (yes - there are differences) was Hitlers enemy. This is why his aims and goals were in most points closer to the ones of the extreme right.
(Hitler was also anti-christian, anti-freemason, anti-liberal and so on).

At last, he did what kept him in power and played with the demands of different political ideologies. In the very end he was destroyed by his two deadliest enemies:
Communism and the liberal democracies.

The whole point of mixing Hitlers ideology with socialism is to discredit socialism or social democrats. Don´t swallow that. Think yourself.

regards
ze germanguy

 

[hipeter924]

Was Hitler a Socialist ?

I really doubt it.
His politics in some points took demands of the socialist parties, like 1st of May as a national hholiday.
On the other hand, trade unions were forbidden, union members ended in KZs etc.
Also average wages became lower in the 1930s and the working time became longer.

Hitler came to power in 1933 as head of a coalition between conservatives, nationalists and his party. So, the far right were obviously his partners, not the socialists or social democrats.
Not much llater he opened the Reichstag at the so-called "Day of Potsdam" where he put himself with his propaganda into the tradition of the prussian monarchy - hardly the move of a socialist.

Nonetheless, Hitler made a lot of laws, which fulfilled socialist demands, other were contrary to those.

In the end, National Socialism was fascism mixed with xenophobia, germanic mysticism (Himmler saw his SS in the tradition of the orders of monk-knights in the middle-ages) and socialist elements.

That is why every communist, socialist and social democrat (yes - there are differences) was Hitlers enemy. This is why his aims and goals were in most points closer to the ones of the extreme right.
(Hitler was also anti-christian, anti-freemason, anti-liberal and so on).

At last, he did what kept him in power and played with the demands of different political ideologies. In the very end he was destroyed by his two deadliest enemies:
Communism and the liberal democracies.

The whole point of mixing Hitlers ideology with socialism is to discredit socialism or social democrats. Don´t swallow that. Think yourself.

regards
ze germanguy

You don't need Hitler to discredit socialism, the crumbling EU is enough. State Capitalism wins over State Socialism any day, China is rising, whereas the EU is sinking.

 

[acc_69]

Countries such as Portugal and Greece were already being subsidized by the UK and others within the EU during the good times. Past and future bailouts during the bad ones were probably inevitable.