Social security a ponzi scheme?

LilOlLady

Gold Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
8,977
Reaction score
833
Points
175
Location
Reno, NV
SOCIAL SECURITY A PONZI SCHEME?
Just because someone call a cat a rat does not mean it is a rat. Perry said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and FOXNEWS grabbed it like a dog with a bone and ran with it. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and those who call it such don’t know what a ponzi scheme is. Social Security is no where near the Ponzi scheme Madoff played.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraud in which money from one group of people is used to pay promised returns to another group of people. The money isn't invested, it's just transferred, and at some point the scheme collapses because there's not enough income to satisfy withdrawals. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/ec ... /index.htm

Social Security has a surplus of $2.6 trillion. People pay into Social Security and they receive payment in return. Nay Sayers that say Social Security will not be there for our children are jut fear mongering to gain support for privatizing it. Not even that but to receive votes in 2012. If Social Security is going broke nothing will save it. As long as people are paying into it, it will be there for future recipients.

Other scare mongering is having to raise the retirement age and cutting the benefits. Then some will die and never collect on the money they paid into the program and cutting benefits with raising medical, cost of living is not an option that future retirees are looking forward to. Social security is secure for the next generation.

401 accounts an option for future retires? Now that a Ponzi scheme.
 

Bern80

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
8,094
Reaction score
722
Points
138
SOCIAL SECURITY A PONZI SCHEME?
Just because someone call a cat a rat does not mean it is a rat. Perry said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and FOXNEWS grabbed it like a dog with a bone and ran with it. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and those who call it such don’t know what a ponzi scheme is. Social Security is no where near the Ponzi scheme Madoff played.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraud in which money from one group of people is used to pay promised returns to another group of people. The money isn't invested, it's just transferred, and at some point the scheme collapses because there's not enough income to satisfy withdrawals. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/ec ... /index.htm

Social Security has a surplus of $2.6 trillion. People pay into Social Security and they receive payment in return. Nay Sayers that say Social Security will not be there for our children are jut fear mongering to gain support for privatizing it. Not even that but to receive votes in 2012. If Social Security is going broke nothing will save it. As long as people are paying into it, it will be there for future recipients.

Other scare mongering is having to raise the retirement age and cutting the benefits. Then some will die and never collect on the money they paid into the program and cutting benefits with raising medical, cost of living is not an option that future retirees are looking forward to. Social security is secure for the next generation.

401 accounts an option for future retires? Now that a Ponzi scheme.
Then by definition yes, SS IS a ponzi scheme because it does in fact take money from one group of people and gives it to another.

You are living in a dream world lady if you think SS 'will always be there as long as people pay into it'. I don't know about you but i get a statement from the dept of social security and even the dept of social security says social security is gong bankrupt.
 

jgarden

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2010
Messages
1,459
Reaction score
202
Points
48
The GOP is heavily dependent on older, white voters.

When Perry questions the validity of SS, he's sowing the seeds of mistrust among his base!
 

waltky

Wise ol' monkey
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Messages
26,211
Reaction score
2,581
Points
275
Location
Okolona, KY
Ratio too low, need to improve the economy to get the numbers back up...
:eusa_eh:
Labor Dept. Data: Only 1.75 Full-Time Private Sector Workers Per Social Security Recipient
September 12, 2011 - There were only 1.75 full-time private-sector workers in the United States last year for each person receiving benefits from Social Security, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics and the Social Security board of trustees.
That means that for each husband and wife who worked full-time in the private sector last year there was a Social Security recipient somewhere in the country taking benefits from the federal government. Most state and local workers are part of the Social Security system and pay Social Security taxes; and, since 1984, all federal workers have been part of the system and pay Social Security taxes. However, unlike private sector workers who pay Social Security taxes with private-sector dollars, government workers pay their payroll taxes out of wages government pays them with tax dollars or with money that was borrowed by government and taxpayers must eventually repay.

In its latest annual report, the Social Security board of trustees reported that the federal government’s total revenue from Social Security taxes in 2010—$544.8 billion—was not enough to cover Social Security’s total benefit payments—$577.4 billion. The board of trustees also reported that there were 156.725 million “covered workers” in the United States who paid some Social Security taxes during 2010. But these 156.725 million “covered workers” included all workers—including government workers—who were “paid at some time during the year for employment” on which Social Security taxes were due. People who worked full-time for 52 weeks during the year were included with people who worked only part-time for a month.

The Social Security board of trustees reported that there were 53.398 million Social Security beneficiaries in 2010. That meant, as the Social Security board of trustees reported, that there were just 2.9 “covered workers” who paid some Social Security taxes in 2010 for each individual who received Social Security benefits. (According to the Social Security board of trustees, there were 41.9 "covered workers" per Social Security beneficiary in 1945.) However, the Bureau of Labor Statistics has generated data indicating how many full-time workers there were in the country in 2010 and how many of these worked in government as opposed to the private sector. According to BLS, there were 111.714 million full-time workers in the United States last year. Of these, 18.073 million worked for local, state or federal government, and 93.641 million worked in the private sector.

The 93.641 million full-time private sector workers last year worked out to 1.75 for each person receiving Social Security benefits. These 93.641 million full-time private sector workers were the foundation of the tax base that supported both government at large and Social Security in particular. Prior to 1983, states and localities could legally opt their employees out of the Social Security system. In 1981, for example, the employees of Galveston County, Texas, voted 78 percent to 22 percent to opt out of the Social Security system for a locally run retirement plan. Brazoria and Matagorda counties in Texas also opted out of Social Security.

Source
 

Charles_Main

AR15 Owner
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
16,692
Reaction score
2,248
Points
88
Location
Michigan, USA
Dozens of People on Both sides of the Isle have called it a Ponzi or Pyramid Scheme in the past. Dating back since it's creation. Why all the attention on perry saying it? It's more true than it's not, and it is by far not the first time someone as pointed it out.
 

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
58,308
Reaction score
5,091
Points
245
SOCIAL SECURITY A PONZI SCHEME?
Just because someone call a cat a rat does not mean it is a rat. Perry said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and FOXNEWS grabbed it like a dog with a bone and ran with it. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and those who call it such don’t know what a ponzi scheme is. Social Security is no where near the Ponzi scheme Madoff played.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraud in which money from one group of people is used to pay promised returns to another group of people. The money isn't invested, it's just transferred, and at some point the scheme collapses because there's not enough income to satisfy withdrawals. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/ec ... /index.htm

Social Security has a surplus of $2.6 trillion. People pay into Social Security and they receive payment in return. Nay Sayers that say Social Security will not be there for our children are jut fear mongering to gain support for privatizing it. Not even that but to receive votes in 2012. If Social Security is going broke nothing will save it. As long as people are paying into it, it will be there for future recipients.

Other scare mongering is having to raise the retirement age and cutting the benefits. Then some will die and never collect on the money they paid into the program and cutting benefits with raising medical, cost of living is not an option that future retirees are looking forward to. Social security is secure for the next generation.

401 accounts an option for future retires? Now that a Ponzi scheme.
Good thing no economists believes that SS is a Ponzi game.

Paul Samuelson.

Social Security is a Ponzi Scheme that Works
The beauty of social insurance is that it is actuarially unsound. Everyone who reaches retirement age is given benefit privileges that far exceed anything he has paid in — exceed his payments by more than ten times (or five times counting employer payments)!
How is it possible? It stems from the fact that the national product is growing at a compound interest rate and can be expected to do so for as far ahead as the eye cannot see. Always there are more youths than old folks in a growing population. More important, with real income going up at 3% per year, the taxable base on which benefits rest is always much greater than the taxes paid historically by the generation now retired. …A growing nation is the greatest Ponzi game ever contrived.
The real deal: the history and ... - Google Books

Paul Krugman

Social Security is structured from the point of view of the recipients as if it were an ordinary retirement plan: what you get out depends on what you put in. So it does not look like a redistributionist scheme. In practice it has turned out to be strongly redistributionist, but only because of its Ponzi game aspect, in which each generation takes more out than it put in. Well, the Ponzi game will soon be over, thanks to changing demographics, so that the typical recipient henceforth will get only about as much as he or she put in (and today's young may well get less than they put in).
Boston Review: Paul Krugman on The New Inequality

Yep, good thing, all those people who argue that SS is similar to a Ponzi scheme are idiots.

FYI, I already started a thread about this, and your side lost.
 

The Infidel

EVIL CONSERVATIVE
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
17,252
Reaction score
3,323
Points
48
Location
AMERITOPIA
Dozens of People on Both sides of the Isle have called it a Ponzi or Pyramid Scheme in the past. Dating back since it's creation. Why all the attention on perry saying it? It's more true than it's not, and it is by far not the first time someone as pointed it out.

because he scares the left
 

Moonglow

Diamond Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2011
Messages
148,014
Reaction score
16,459
Points
2,220
Location
sw mizzouri
Dozens of People on Both sides of the Isle have called it a Ponzi or Pyramid Scheme in the past. Dating back since it's creation. Why all the attention on perry saying it? It's more true than it's not, and it is by far not the first time someone as pointed it out.

because he scares the left
not near as bad as Sarah's saddle bags.
 

Toro

Diamond Member
Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
83,048
Reaction score
20,474
Points
2,180
Location
Surfing the Oceans of Liquidity
No, social security is not a Ponzi Scheme. Social security is a pay as you go system. A pay as you go system is sustainable if there is an economic basis for the system. A Ponzi Scheme is a fraud that does not have an economic basis for the scheme.
 

pete

The food stamp president
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
1,581
Reaction score
233
Points
98
No matter what you call it, it was a scheme.
Politicians look for ways to generate money and spend on what they want (not necessarily good).
The economy is bad because of bad choices and bad use of funds and always the creative book keeping.
If at the time when social security was put in place you could collect at age 65 and life expectancy was 65 WHO THE FUCK DID THEY PLAN ON PAYING?
 

editec

Mr. Forgot-it-All
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
41,421
Reaction score
5,660
Points
48
Location
Maine
If SSI is bankrupt, so too then is every other FEDERAL debt instrument.
 

PLYMCO_PILGRIM

Gold Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
17,416
Reaction score
3,063
Points
183
Location
America's Home Town
SOCIAL SECURITY A PONZI SCHEME?
Just because someone call a cat a rat does not mean it is a rat. Perry said Social Security is a Ponzi scheme and FOXNEWS grabbed it like a dog with a bone and ran with it. Social Security is not a Ponzi scheme and those who call it such don’t know what a ponzi scheme is. Social Security is no where near the Ponzi scheme Madoff played.

A Ponzi scheme is a fraud in which money from one group of people is used to pay promised returns to another group of people. The money isn't invested, it's just transferred, and at some point the scheme collapses because there's not enough income to satisfy withdrawals. http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/06/news/ec ... /index.htm

Social Security has a surplus of $2.6 trillion. People pay into Social Security and they receive payment in return. Nay Sayers that say Social Security will not be there for our children are jut fear mongering to gain support for privatizing it. Not even that but to receive votes in 2012. If Social Security is going broke nothing will save it. As long as people are paying into it, it will be there for future recipients.

Other scare mongering is having to raise the retirement age and cutting the benefits. Then some will die and never collect on the money they paid into the program and cutting benefits with raising medical, cost of living is not an option that future retirees are looking forward to. Social security is secure for the next generation.

401 accounts an option for future retires? Now that a Ponzi scheme.
Its not exactly a ponzie scheme but it does have striking similarities to a ponzie scheme. You do admit this, correct?
 

Quantum Windbag

Gold Member
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
58,308
Reaction score
5,091
Points
245
No, social security is not a Ponzi Scheme. Social security is a pay as you go system. A pay as you go system is sustainable if there is an economic basis for the system. A Ponzi Scheme is a fraud that does not have an economic basis for the scheme.
There is no economic basis for a pay as you go system that increases payouts to a group that grows faster than the group that supports it, that makes SS a Ponzi game.
 

flacaltenn

Diamond Member
Staff member
Senior USMB Moderator
Moderator
Gold Supporting Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
60,755
Reaction score
15,472
Points
2,180
Location
Hillbilly Hollywood, Tenn
If SSI is bankrupt, so too then is every other FEDERAL debt instrument.
No -- not true.. Proper USE of debt instruments can be wise. Like when you refinance at 2% instead of 8%.

But the kind of debt involved in the SS Trust Fund is just stone cold stupid..

Essentially for every $1.00 of FICA excess stolen, the taxpayers are on the hook for OVER $2.00 to pay current beneficiaries. Because the reality is that phoney TF interest is added, AND NEW debt is created and financed (interest on the interest). It's costing DOUBLE interest to finance that theft.

That's a CERTAIN example of BAD debt instruments..
 

New Topics

Most reactions - Past 7 days

Forum List

Top