Social Sec will stay solvent for 20 years... *IF* we pay off 1/3 of the National Debt

[NYcarbineer]

Social security is not broke, it has run surpluses since its birth.

No. No it hasn't. Sure, one deficit during the 1980's. It could be considered a fluke. But three consecutive years from 2010 - 2012, and a projected cash-flow deficit in 2013...

Yeah, Social Security is running dry.

How can Social Security be 'running dry' if the Trust Fund balance continues to increase?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[
Hey genius, Social Security HAS NO MONEY. The federal government has been taking OUR money, replacing it with IOU's and using the funds for other things. Most of those items are wasteful pork barrel spending.
?

lol, that's like saying there's no money in your money market account because it consists of US Treasuries, not cash. That's like saying every bond fund in America is broke because the money put into it was loaned to someone who used the money to buy something.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Are you kidding? LBJ made sure social security would never be solvent when he officially authorized the government to steal every dime. Before that government just stole most of it.

SS revenues were invested in US securities since the program began.

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey genius, Social Security has NO MONEY.
The system needs to be blown up and redone.
The problem is an overwhelming number of people believe SS to be an entitlement.
The scream "don't you dare touch my social security!!!!!"...
The fact is these people could not care less about SS, where the money comes from or anything else for that matter, as long as THEIR check comes to them. Self centered bastards that they are. And incredibly stupid to believe the government is not "touching"their precious social security.

Who pays into Social Security...and why? The government does not pay into Social Security. For those who may think (or pretend to think) that U.S. government securities are a bad/risky investment - please don't tell the large countries and institutions that hold trillions of U.S. debt.

It's a MONUMENT LIE that the "trust fund" holds US treasury bonds.. The only thing in the drawer of the trust is a book with an accounting entry for an "interdepartmental transfer" of the stolen surplus and promise to repay.

At the end of every SS Admin yearly statement -- buried in the back pages you'll find something similiar to...... .

http://www.socialsecurity.gov/history/pdf/tr09summary.pdf

Social Security’s annual surpluses
of tax income over expenditures are expected to fall sharply this
year and to stay about constant in 2010 because of the economic recession,
and to rise only briefly before declining and turning to cash flow
deficits beginning in 2016 that grow as the baby-boom generation retires.


The combined difference grows each year, so that by 2016, net revenue
flows from the general fund would total $369 billion (1.8 percent of
GDP). The positive amounts that begin in 2016 for OASDI, and started in
2008 for HI, initially represent payments the Treasury must make to the
trust funds when assets are depleted to help pay benefits in years prior to
exhaustion of the funds. Neither the redemption of trust fund bonds, nor
interest paid on those bonds, provides any new net income to the Treasury,
which must finance redemptions and interest payments through
some combination of increased taxation, reductions in other government
spending, or additional borrowing from the public.

Or you can take the bad news from anyone of a number of CBO files..

CBO | Federal Debt and Interest Costs

Because those trust funds and other government accounts are part of the federal government, transactions between them and the Treasury are intragovernmental; that is, the government securities in those funds are an asset to the individual programs but a liability to the rest of the government. The resources needed to redeem the government securities in the trust funds and other accounts in some future year must be generated from taxes, income from other government sources, or borrowing by the government in that year.

About "being invested in US Treasury Bonds.. Not at all.. They are "special issue", non-saleable, non-transferable...... That is ---- an IOU...

Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury through their Bureau of Public Debt. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

•Special issues—available only to the trust funds
•Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.
The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

You have been ROBBED.. You are being LIED TO --- and now you are paying TWICE for the robbery..

BillyRock --- NY Carbineer --------

Yes -- I'm quoting myself.. Because I'm tired of folks propagating the lie that the Trust fund has anything of value in it.. No cash, No US treasury bonds --- just an accounting entry representing a grand larceny that would send ANY group of corporate execs to PRISON for 7 to 10..

CURRENT TAXPAYERS pay when the trust has negative cash flow like in 2010 and 11.. Robbing them TWICE for the same benefit and charging THEM interest for the crime..

 

[JakeStarkey]

flacaltenn, then ask Congress for the minor fixes necessary.

SS is going to live a lot longer than any of us alive today.

 

[Little-Acorn]

Hey genius, Social Security HAS NO MONEY. The federal government has been taking OUR money, replacing it with IOU's and using the funds for other things.

Yep, that's true of pretty much all the so-called "trust funds" the Fed govt has been running.

It's those IOUs that will have to be redeemed, if the govt is to pay the benefits is it comitted to paying, in the next 15 or 20 or whatever number of years.

Those IOUs are part of the National Debt. Redeeming them, means paying off 30% of the National Debt.

Have you heard of any politicians making any plans to pay off 30% of the National Debt during the next 20-whatever years?

Neither have I.

"Houston, we have a problem."

 

[flacaltenn]

flacaltenn, then ask Congress for the minor fixes necessary.

SS is going to live a lot longer than any of us alive today.

'
SS should survive on the will and decency of the American people. But at this point, we are beyond "minor" fixes. If the program is pay as you go, the "fix" would be to jack up FICA taxes on current workers to cover the deficits. That's untenable, but it's gonna come from current and future workers anyway..

Anyone over 40 that's PLANNED for retirement counting SS benefits ought to be honored.
That INCLUDES EVERYONE that's been forced to pay premiums. Soaking the "rich" by raising the cap -- just turns this UNIVERSAL vision of FDR into another sadass redistributionist welfare program.

Perhaps that's how we should look at the long term anyway..

But what's CLEAR -- is that the lying and fraud needs to stop. And Congress should be called to task for mismanagement of EVERY TRUST fund they've ever created...

 

[JakeStarkey]

Considering the price of inflation over the decades, a raise in the taxable income is not unfair.

Yes, minor and reasonable fixes will take care of the issue.

Thank you for agreeing.

 

[flacaltenn]

Considering the price of inflation over the decades, a raise in the taxable income is not unfair.

Yes, minor and reasonable fixes will take care of the issue.

Thank you for agreeing.

Did no such thing jerk.. The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.. That's redistribution and welfare. NOT -- "a UNIVERSAL program..

And you wonder why folks are not gonna trust Congress with another "UNIVERSAL" anything... Everyone needs to wake up and realize that Congresss continues to provide cover to SSA and the Treasury so that they promulgate the big lie of SS 'solvency'.. And that they NEVER administer ANY program to the long term benefit of our citizens. Not Min Wage, Not the Indian or Hiway Trust Fund, Not even our Intelligience programs.

 

[JakeStarkey]

"The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.."

Not proven at all.

SS is not going anywhere, and arguing about its existence is fruitless.

Let's make the fixes.

 

[flacaltenn]

"The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.."

Not proven at all.

SS is not going anywhere, and arguing about its existence is fruitless.

Let's make the fixes.

OF COURSE IT"S PROVEN.. Can you do 3rd grade MATH???

What is 6% (or 12% if you're self-employed as I am) of $106,000 per year JakeyBaby??

Times 30 years that's $190K or $380K. Getting essentially the same benefit as someone who put in $19K or $38K? At a $380K total lifetime premium, I'd have to live about 30 YEARS after 64.5 to BREAK EVEN while the lower wage worker gets to break even in less than 2 years? .... You want to RAISE that gap because you can't math?

Cut the crap....

 

[JakeStarkey]

"The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.."

Not proven at all.

SS is not going anywhere, and arguing about its existence is fruitless.

Let's make the fixes.

OF COURSE IT"S PROVEN.. Can you do 3rd grade MATH???

What is 6% (or 12% if you're self-employed as I am) of $106,000 per year JakeyBaby??

Times 30 years that's $190K or $380K. Getting essentially the same benefit as someone who put in $19K or $38K? At a $380K total lifetime premium, I'd have to live about 30 YEARS after 64.5 to BREAK EVEN while the lower wage worker gets to break even in less than 2 years? .... You want to RAISE that gap because you can't math?

Cut the crap....

If you are your employer, guess what: you have to pay the employer's fee as well. That's fair. You pay a price for living in America, the freest country in the world. I have paid the highest premium for many years, and so what?

https://secure.ssa.gov/acu/ACU_KBA/main.jsp?URL=/apps8z/ARPI/main.jsp?locale=en&LVL=4

 

[Oddball]

"The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.."

Not proven at all.

SS is not going anywhere, and arguing about its existence is fruitless.

Let's make the fixes.

OF COURSE IT"S PROVEN.. Can you do 3rd grade MATH???

What is 6% (or 12% if you're self-employed as I am) of $106,000 per year JakeyBaby??

Times 30 years that's $190K or $380K. Getting essentially the same benefit as someone who put in $19K or $38K? At a $380K total lifetime premium, I'd have to live about 30 YEARS after 64.5 to BREAK EVEN while the lower wage worker gets to break even in less than 2 years? .... You want to RAISE that gap because you can't math?

Cut the crap....

If you are your employer, guess what: you have to pay the employer's fee as well. That's fair. You pay a price for living in America, the freest country in the world. I have paid the highest premium for many years, and so what?

https://secure.ssa.gov/acu/ACU_KBA/main.jsp?URL=/apps8z/ARPI/main.jsp?locale=en&LVL=4

The employer doesn't pay jack shit.....If you're an employer, that money comes out of the percentage of projected income in their business model allotted to paying employees....The employees pay it all.

Once again, you don't know even basic business accounting, let alone know your ass from a hot rock.

 

[JakeStarkey]

OF COURSE IT"S PROVEN.. Can you do 3rd grade MATH???

What is 6% (or 12% if you're self-employed as I am) of $106,000 per year JakeyBaby??

Times 30 years that's $190K or $380K. Getting essentially the same benefit as someone who put in $19K or $38K? At a $380K total lifetime premium, I'd have to live about 30 YEARS after 64.5 to BREAK EVEN while the lower wage worker gets to break even in less than 2 years? .... You want to RAISE that gap because you can't math?

Cut the crap....

If you are your employer, guess what: you have to pay the employer's fee as well. That's fair. You pay a price for living in America, the freest country in the world. I have paid the highest premium for many years, and so what?

https://secure.ssa.gov/acu/ACU_KBA/main.jsp?URL=/apps8z/ARPI/main.jsp?locale=en&LVL=4

The employer doesn't pay jack shit.....If you're an employer, that money comes out of the percentage of projected income in their business model allotted to paying employees....The employees pay it all.

Once again, you don't know even basic business accounting, let alone know your ass from a hot rock.

Of course, I do, and I will ask you only once to stay on topic and follow the rules.

Think about what you just wrote: if that is true for my "employer", then it is true if I am "employing" myself.

 

[flacaltenn]

"The cap is already at position where a large percentage of folks see a MASSIVE negative return on Soc Sec.."

Not proven at all.

SS is not going anywhere, and arguing about its existence is fruitless.

Let's make the fixes.

OF COURSE IT"S PROVEN.. Can you do 3rd grade MATH???

What is 6% (or 12% if you're self-employed as I am) of $106,000 per year JakeyBaby??

Times 30 years that's $190K or $380K. Getting essentially the same benefit as someone who put in $19K or $38K? At a $380K total lifetime premium, I'd have to live about 30 YEARS after 64.5 to BREAK EVEN while the lower wage worker gets to break even in less than 2 years? .... You want to RAISE that gap because you can't math?

Cut the crap....

If you are your employer, guess what: you have to pay the employer's fee as well. That's fair. You pay a price for living in America, the freest country in the world. I have paid the highest premium for many years, and so what?

https://secure.ssa.gov/acu/ACU_KBA/main.jsp?URL=/apps8z/ARPI/main.jsp?locale=en&LVL=4

Ok.. So the guy who has "an employer pay half" (which really comes out of HIS salary) only has to live 15 years after 64.5 to break even while the lower paid worker is still even in just 2 years.. Just do the math Jakey --- it's redistribution and welfare by raising the cap even more.. NOT at all what FDR had in mind is it??? AND not how it was sold to the American people as "UNIVERSAL"

 

[JakeStarkey]

Definitions give particular meanings to terms and words. You are misdefining the word and terms.

And that is obvious.

It is not welfare, it is not socialism.

If we don't get the fixes in soon, eventually we will get slammed with means testing.

And that, flacaltenn and oddball, is redistribution.

 

[flacaltenn]

BTW: That kiddy math PROOF doesn't even take into account "constant dollars" and inflation or what minimum safe investments would have yielded. That puts the contribution under the CURRENT cap closer to $350K or $700K employed/self-employed. The break even point isn't even in THIS LIFETIME...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Who pays into Social Security...and why? The government does not pay into Social Security. For those who may think (or pretend to think) that U.S. government securities are a bad/risky investment - please don't tell the large countries and institutions that hold trillions of U.S. debt.

It's a MONUMENT LIE that the "trust fund" holds US treasury bonds.. The only thing in the drawer of the trust is a book with an accounting entry for an "interdepartmental transfer" of the stolen surplus and promise to repay.

At the end of every SS Admin yearly statement -- buried in the back pages you'll find something similiar to...... .





Or you can take the bad news from anyone of a number of CBO files..



About "being invested in US Treasury Bonds.. Not at all.. They are "special issue", non-saleable, non-transferable...... That is ---- an IOU...

Special-issue securities, Social Security trust funds

The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury through their Bureau of Public Debt. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

•Special issues—available only to the trust funds
•Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.
The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

You have been ROBBED.. You are being LIED TO --- and now you are paying TWICE for the robbery..

BillyRock --- NY Carbineer --------

Yes -- I'm quoting myself.. Because I'm tired of folks propagating the lie that the Trust fund has anything of value in it.. No cash, No US treasury bonds --- just an accounting entry representing a grand larceny that would send ANY group of corporate execs to PRISON for 7 to 10..

CURRENT TAXPAYERS pay when the trust has negative cash flow like in 2010 and 11.. Robbing them TWICE for the same benefit and charging THEM interest for the crime..

The Trust Fund is composed of US treasury securities. They have every bit as much value as any other bond sold by the US.

If the Trust Fund has no value, where did the money come from that made up the difference between payroll tax revenues and benefit obligations in the last couple years?

If there no Trust Fund, why wasn't everyone on SS shorted in their checks for the last 2 or 3 years?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Hey genius, Social Security HAS NO MONEY. The federal government has been taking OUR money, replacing it with IOU's and using the funds for other things.

Yep, that's true of pretty much all the so-called "trust funds" the Fed govt has been running.

It's those IOUs that will have to be redeemed, if the govt is to pay the benefits is it comitted to paying, in the next 15 or 20 or whatever number of years.

Those IOUs are part of the National Debt. Redeeming them, means paying off 30% of the National Debt.

Have you heard of any politicians making any plans to pay off 30% of the National Debt during the next 20-whatever years?

Neither have I.

"Houston, we have a problem."

They don't have to 'pay off' the national debt to pay back money owed to SS.

They can borrow money elsewhere, like they do for everything else. Or they can raise taxes, and use that money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Raise taxes? Don't say that. He will have such a fit, he would never need his SS.