So why was Eve "in THE transgression" according to the New Testamant, but Adam was not?

[tyroneweaver]

so you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

How do you know God could make man anyway he wants
God isn't going to do anything contrary to his nature

Why did God create a tree, a fruit, and last of all Satan.
This whole scenario was manipulated to have one outcome, for Adam to fall, and to bring the Messiah into the world.
No fall No Messiah.

 

[onefour1]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

 

[Mr.Right]

ISIS are Muslims, but they are lying about Islam. Lying about truth is fun to humans. Therefore, do make the difference between Islam and Muslims.

Domestic violence and discrimination against women is one of the main features of Christians Western societies.

Quit trying to deceive people! Isis, and all the other Islamic terrorist groups, are practicing Islam exactly the way Muhammad said they should.

 

[Mr.Right]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I can refute that with one Bible verse. All things were made Him. And without Him was not anything made that was made. Matter and energy are things. Are you saying that God didn't create them? And your comment about God not being able to create from nothing is absurd, as well as heretical. What part of omnipotent don't you get?

 

[BULLDOG]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

You threw a lot of stuff in there that isn't in the bible, but I get what you are saying. You are jumping through hoops to explain crap that can't be explained. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't. If he is, there is no reason for all the crap you explained. He could just make man how he wanted him to be, If he isn't omnipotent, he isn't God. Make up your mind.

 

[tyroneweaver]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

You threw a lot of stuff in there that isn't in the bible, but I get what you are saying. You are jumping through hoops to explain crap that can't be explained. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't. If he is, there is no reason for all the crap you explained. He could just make man how he wanted him to be, If he isn't omnipotent, he isn't God. Make up your mind.

under your theory Jesus could do anything He wanted, and even commit sin and he would still be Jesus.
Jesus could have called legions of angels and he would have been omnipotent, but would he have still been Savior.

speaking of making up your mind:
Is God 1 in 3 or 3 in 1
Is God a box that has depth, width, and height.
Is God water, steam, or ice
Please tell me.

 

[BULLDOG]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

You threw a lot of stuff in there that isn't in the bible, but I get what you are saying. You are jumping through hoops to explain crap that can't be explained. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't. If he is, there is no reason for all the crap you explained. He could just make man how he wanted him to be, If he isn't omnipotent, he isn't God. Make up your mind.

under your theory Jesus could do anything He wanted, and even commit sin and he would still be Jesus.
Jesus could have called legions of angels and he would have been omnipotent, but would he have still been Savior.

speaking of making up your mind:
Is God 1 in 3 or 3 in 1
Is God a box that has depth, width, and height.
Is God water, steam, or ice
Please tell me.

God, if he does exist, is God. If he is omnipotent, all your silly questions are immaterial. If he is not omnipotent he is not God. All that other crap you came up with is just an attempt to explain stuff you don't understand.

 

[September]

Avatar4321

Avatar please tell us about Moroni. You were so quick to assure us that Lilith "never existed" but do you not believe in Moroni bologna macaroni?

​

 

[tyroneweaver]

I think Adam was a very, very obedient soul. He may never have fallen into mortality on his own due to his obedience. However, it was necessary for Adam and Eve to fall. God knew from before the time he placed Adam and Eve into the Garden that they would fall and went ahead anyway and placed the two innocent beings in the garden. We know that God knew the fall would happen because he called Jesus to be a savior before the foundation of this world.

1 Peter 1:18-20
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Eve was beguiled by the devil through a series of lies mingled with truth and a desire to become like her father in heaven.

Here is the temptation Eve received:

Genesis 3:1-6
1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

The lie that Satan told Eve was that she would never die. But it was true that they would become more like God and receive wisdom. For God said,

Genesis 3
22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

23 Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

So basically, God put 2 innocent beings in a garden, and he put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden also. He put Satan there to tempt them and knew that Eve would succumb to the temptation. It was basically the plan of God to have his children come to earth to go through the mortal experience. This mortal experience is essential for man to learn how to choose good over evil of his own free will, to gain experience by receiving a body, and to walk by faith outside of being in God's presence or having a memory of God from their pre-mortal experience. All this experience helps man to gain wisdom and knowledge to progress and become more like the Father.

So even though Eve succumbed to Satan's temptation, God used Satan to further God's plan to bring his children into mortality to learn and progress to become more like God. God also used the innocence of Eve and her desire to be like the Father to bring about his purposes. Adam could not fulfill the commandment to multiply and replenish the earth without staying with Eve and therefore he partook also of the forbidden fruit and the rest is history.

2 Nephi 2:24-25
24 But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.

25 Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy.

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

You threw a lot of stuff in there that isn't in the bible, but I get what you are saying. You are jumping through hoops to explain crap that can't be explained. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't. If he is, there is no reason for all the crap you explained. He could just make man how he wanted him to be, If he isn't omnipotent, he isn't God. Make up your mind.

under your theory Jesus could do anything He wanted, and even commit sin and he would still be Jesus.
Jesus could have called legions of angels and he would have been omnipotent, but would he have still been Savior.

speaking of making up your mind:
Is God 1 in 3 or 3 in 1
Is God a box that has depth, width, and height.
Is God water, steam, or ice
Please tell me.

God, if he does exist, is God. If he is omnipotent, all your silly questions are immaterial. If he is not omnipotent he is not God. All that other crap you came up with is just an attempt to explain stuff you don't understand.

I understand fully the nature of God and the Godhead.
I understand that you have a perception of God...it's just not the God of the Bible

 

[peach174]

Greetings to all,

...so I was reading 1 Timothy 2 a little while ago, and this is what verses 12-14 said:

"...(13)For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Can anybody tell me, why does this verse say that Eve "was in THE transgression" but does not say that Adam "was in THE transgression" if they both transgressed in the garden?...

Confused,
Anonymous1977

It's about women not having authority over man in teaching in the Church because she became the transgressor.

 

[peach174]

ISIS are Muslims, but they are lying about Islam. Lying about truth is fun to humans. Therefore, do make the difference between Islam and Muslims.

Domestic violence and discrimination against women is one of the main features of Christians Western societies.[/QUOTE]

That is not true.

 

[Muslim75]

In Pakistan 1 000 women die in honor killings annually. Why is this happening - The Washington Post

Muslims do these horrible things, that's very well known. I said "Muslims", not "Islam".

It does not mean the domestic violence and the discrimination against women in Western societies can be ignored. Both are difficult situations.

 

[Muslim75]

Greetings to all,

...so I was reading 1 Timothy 2 a little while ago, and this is what verses 12-14 said:

"...(13)For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Can anybody tell me, why does this verse say that Eve "was in THE transgression" but does not say that Adam "was in THE transgression" if they both transgressed in the garden?...

Confused,
Anonymous1977

Eve is a most honored woman. Her grave is in Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia. (Note however that the Islam in Saudi Arabia is greatly evil, and it is well known in the traditional knowledge of authentic Islam).

In Islam, it was Adam who did the evil and brought about both their falls. Women are pure, unlike men. Satan calls out to men, not women.

 

[BULLDOG]

So you are saying God intentionally caused man to sin which caused great suffering. Why would God want to be such a dick? If he is omnipotent, he could have made man any way he wanted without all the song and dance you describe. Does God have a mean streak?

You have to understand the nature of spirits and God. God is a being who creates but he doesn't create out of nothing. Ex Nihilo creation is a false concept. God takes what already exists and uses those things to create. It is impossible to create something from nothing, even for God. God first created our spirits. Our spirits consist of two things, matter and intelligence.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:7
7 There is no such thing as immaterial matter. All spirit is matter, but it is more fine or pure, and can only be discerned by purer eyes;

Doctrine and Covenants 93:29
29 Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be.

Basically man is made of eternal matter and self-existing intelligence. Spirit matter is so fine and pure that is not detectable by man and his machines. Intelligence is self-existent and has always existed. From these the spirit of man was created.

Because the Intelligence of man is self-existent, God could not create it. Therefore, he could not create it to be perfect. It is what it is. God combined these intelligences with matter and created all life forms. The most intelligent of them all he made in his own image and likeness and they became his children. So yes Bulldog, I believe that the intelligent part of you has always existed and always will.

God had a desire to have his children become like him. But he couldn't create them perfect, so he had to teach them by experience, faith, his word, others, etc. To do this, it was critical that man learn to choose good in and of himself. The reason is because God himself is a being of free will and does all that he does of his own choosing. For us to become like him we have to learn to not only choose good in and of ourselves, but also to want to choose good. We lived in the presence of God before coming to this earth. All those who have come to this earth to gain a body were valiant in God's presence and progressed to the point where it was time for us to receive a body and be separated from God to be tested to see how we would do outside the presence of God and without our previous memory of God. This would be a true test of our real character. Would we choose good over evil of our own volition? When the cats away will the mice play? Our time in God's presence was known as our first estate. This earth life is known as our second estate.

Matthew 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Abraham 3:26
26 And they who keep their first estate shall be added upon; and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory in the same kingdom with those who keep their first estate; and they who keep their second estate shall have glory added upon their heads for ever and ever.

Jude 1:6
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

For man to progress to become more like God, it was critical for man to receive a body, and come to this earth to learn to walk by faith and learn to choose good over evil. It is important for man to experience the bad so that he might learn to fully appreciate the good.

Doctrine and Covenants 29:39
39 And it must needs be that the devil should tempt the children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet—

Because God could not create us perfect and because we must learn of the evil to fully appreciate the good. God has sent us to this life to learn all about good and evil that we might learn to praise the good and shun evil. Only those who truly learn to love goodness over evil will find entrance into God's kingdom. Otherwise there will be other places prepared for those who do not. God is looking for those faithful followers whom he can trust to rule in righteousness in the hereafter. Those who will become kings and priests unto the Most High. Those whom he will make joint heirs with Jesus and become one with Jesus and the Father to live in eternal peace and joy.

In the pre-mortal life, our first estate, we chose to come to this earth and go through the hardships of this mortal life so that we could become more like our Father. But God couldn't place us into a fallen state without us first transgressing one of his commands. So God, in his infinite wisdom, created a situation whereby we could enter mortal life by placing Adam and Eve in a garden and commanding them not to partake of the fruit of a tree. He also placed Lucifer among them , knowing that Lucifer would tempt them. Adam and Eve were innocent, not knowing what death even was or what it was like to fall. They were quite naïve. Once they were beguiled by Satan, Eve chose to go against the commandment believing that she would become like God whom she loved and adored. She then had sufficient knowledge to convince Adam to partake. But all this was necessary to bring about our mortal condition. Did God know this would happen? Of course he did. This was the way for his children to gain the necessary experience and body that would lead them toward eternal joy and happiness. Children must grow up and go out on their own and progress in life. So it is in eternity! We strive to become the best we can be. The path is not always easy and all of us slip up from time to time. But God has provided a means for second chances through Jesus Christ's atoning sacrifice. As long as we are repentant and striving to be a good person, the Lord is ready to forgive us of our short comings. The whole thing was foreknown by God and he foreordained a Savior to give us light so that we could follow the right path.

Doctrine and Covenants 93:2
2 And that I am the true light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world;

Revelation 3:21
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

You threw a lot of stuff in there that isn't in the bible, but I get what you are saying. You are jumping through hoops to explain crap that can't be explained. Either God is omnipotent or he isn't. If he is, there is no reason for all the crap you explained. He could just make man how he wanted him to be, If he isn't omnipotent, he isn't God. Make up your mind.

under your theory Jesus could do anything He wanted, and even commit sin and he would still be Jesus.
Jesus could have called legions of angels and he would have been omnipotent, but would he have still been Savior.

speaking of making up your mind:
Is God 1 in 3 or 3 in 1
Is God a box that has depth, width, and height.
Is God water, steam, or ice
Please tell me.

God, if he does exist, is God. If he is omnipotent, all your silly questions are immaterial. If he is not omnipotent he is not God. All that other crap you came up with is just an attempt to explain stuff you don't understand.

I understand fully the nature of God and the Godhead.
I understand that you have a perception of God...it's just not the God of the Bible

Then why did you need to quote those phony baloney books in your explanation? Sounds like something a lying bigamist might come up with.

 

[onefour1]

Omnipotence is so misunderstood. Can God be an all evil being and an all good being at the same time? According to your concept of omnipotence, he should be able to do this. Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it? What say ye? If something has always existed can God create that very thing that has always existed out of nothing and give it a beginning?

The fact is that if God created mankind from nothing, then why didn't he simply create man to exactly like himself, ie, all knowing, all powerful, all loving. You would think that God, if he was all powerful, could do this. And if he was all loving, he would certainly want the best for us and to save us from having to go through the pains of learning through mortality by suffering death, pain, and anguish. If he is all knowing, certainly he would know how to make us perfect like himself. So given your concept of God, why didn't he do it?

The reason is that God is omnipotent in that he can d all things that are possible. Would you not consider a being who can do all things that are possible as omnipotent. The problem is that you believe God can do things that are eternally impossible. The word "create" or "made" does not imply that it was created out of nothing. If I were to create a ship, I would go a find the material that I would need to build it. I would not create it out of nothing. So it is with God. He is the great organizer of the universe. There is no biblical evidence for ex nihilo creation. It is a false concept.

For a good video series on the subject, watch "Problems with Ex Nihilo Creation Video Series"

Another good video series is: "Hebrew Council of the Gods, Monotheism & Creation Ex Nihilo video series"

 

[tyroneweaver]

Greetings to all,

...so I was reading 1 Timothy 2 a little while ago, and this is what verses 12-14 said:

"...(13)For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Can anybody tell me, why does this verse say that Eve "was in THE transgression" but does not say that Adam "was in THE transgression" if they both transgressed in the garden?...

Confused,
Anonymous1977

Eve is a most honored woman. Her grave is in Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia. (Note however that the Islam in Saudi Arabia is greatly evil, and it is well known in the traditional knowledge of authentic Islam).

In Islam, it was Adam who did the evil and brought about both their falls. Women are pure, unlike men. Satan calls out to men, not women.

Hate to burst your bubble but Eve and Adam are already resurrected and are no longer in the grave. They were resurrected along with other saints at Jesus resurrection.
Matt 27:52-53

 

[Mr.Right]

Greetings to all,

...so I was reading 1 Timothy 2 a little while ago, and this is what verses 12-14 said:

"...(13)For Adam was first formed, then Eve. (14)And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression."

Can anybody tell me, why does this verse say that Eve "was in THE transgression" but does not say that Adam "was in THE transgression" if they both transgressed in the garden?...

Confused,
Anonymous1977

Eve is a most honored woman. Her grave is in Jeddah, in Saudi Arabia. (Note however that the Islam in Saudi Arabia is greatly evil, and it is well known in the traditional knowledge of authentic Islam).

In Islam, it was Adam who did the evil and brought about both their falls. Women are pure, unlike men. Satan calls out to men, not women.

Hate to burst your bubble but Eve and Adam are already resurrected and are no longer in the grave. They were resurrected along with other saints at Jesus resurrection.
Matt 27:52-53

I hate to burst your bubble, but I believe you are incorrect. It doesn't say who, or how many were raised. Just saying. As to where Adam and Eve are buried, no one knows. The global flood radically changed the surface of the Earth. Anyone buried before the flood was broadly exhumed by the flood, and became fish food.