So Palestinians descended from ancient Jews, huh?

[amity1844]

I posted some interesting information on the "Who are the Palestinians?" thread, and that post has been summarily denounced and buried and reburied very many times, but no one has had any constructive response to it.
So I am going to begin a separate thread to preserve it for posterity, and hopefully generate some discussion of this issue and what it means fror the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

A genetic study published in 2009 which was conducted jointly by Hebrew Univeristy and Hadassah Medical Center showed that the Palestinians do NOT come from surrounding countries, as many Zionists now assert. Genetic testing has proved they are the descendants of the Jewish population of the later Roman and post-Roman period who remained on the land after the destruction of the temple. Here is the picture, which I am reposting:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.

The synagogue tradition was developed in response to the destruction of the second temple, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted. By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place. The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc. To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout. Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times. And Palestinians are at least 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times. By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times. So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are? No, I don't think that is the point. The lesson is about demographics and migration.

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted. These were true "Palestinian Jews." The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven. There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity. Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts. All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible. Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc. Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language. It was the language spoken by Christ.

First, please read article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
That will tell you where to get a copy of the study. I have a membership on JSTOR and will go online and look for it in a bit.

Then secondly watch film:
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQBoxvvBEgM]Palestinian people - Part 1 - YouTube[/ame]

Then thirdly, accept truth.

David Ben Gurion:
"There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the fellaheen. They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."

Now that we know that Palestinians are not just Jews' semitic cousins, they are genetically Jews themselves, the kids of Bar Kochba, what does this mean for discussion of a Palestinian Right of Return?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

 

[MJB12741]

Excellent idea. Can we begin with all the Palestinian contributions to peace, mankind & civilization before 1948 to educate the Zionists as to who are the Palestinians?

I posted some interesting information on the "Who are the Palestinians?" thread, and that post has been summarily denounced and buried and reburied very many times, but no one has had any constructive response to it.
So I am going to begin a separate thread to preserve it for posterity, and hopefully generate some discussion of this issue and what it means fror the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

A genetic study published in 2009 which was conducted jointly by Hebrew Univeristy and Hadassah Medical Center showed that the Palestinians do NOT come from surrounding countries, as many Zionists now assert. Genetic testing has proved they are the descendants of the Jewish population of the later Roman and post-Roman period who remained on the land after the destruction of the temple. Here is the picture, which I am reposting:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.

The synagogue tradition was developed in response to the destruction of the second temple, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted. By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place. The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc. To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout. Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times. And Palestinians are at least 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times. By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times. So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are? No, I don't think that is the point. The lesson is about demographics and migration.

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted. These were true "Palestinian Jews." The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven. There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity. Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts. All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible. Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc. Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language. It was the language spoken by Christ.

First, please read article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
That will tell you where to get a copy of the study. I have a membership on JSTOR and will go online and look for it in a bit.

Then secondly watch film:
Palestinian people - Part 1 - YouTube

Then thirdly, accept truth.

David Ben Gurion:
"There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the fellaheen. They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."

Now that we know that Palestinians are not just Jews' semitic cousins, they are genetically Jews themselves, the kids of Bar Kochba, what does this mean for discussion of a Palestinian Right of Return?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

 

[amity1844]

I can certainly oblige, there are numerous good examples, but I do want to point out that "contributions to peace, mankind & civilization before 1948" is not a pre-requisite for Jews wishing to exercise their right of return under Israeli law. Nor is the observant practice of Judaism a pre-requisite. The only pre-requisite is descent from Jews.

 

[MJB12741]

Well, why are you avoiding the question with all your wealth of knowledge & documented facts? We know that Israel has oppressed & brutalized the Palestinians since 1948 with their damn peace offerings, security fence & land concessions so they can remain in Israel thus making them "freedom fighters" with terrorism but what of all the Palestinian contributions to the world before Israel so destroyed them?

I can certainly oblige, there are numerous good examples, but I do want to point out that "contributions to peace, mankind & civilization before 1948" is not a pre-requisite for Jews wishing to exercise their right of return under Israeli law. Nor is the observant practice of Judaism a pre-requisite. The only pre-requisite is descent from Jews.

 

[amity1844]

If you want to discuss that question, then YOU start a thread and I will be happy to contribute. I am going to keep this discussion on topic.

 

[Roudy]

I posted some interesting information on the "Who are the Palestinians?" thread, and that post has been summarily denounced and buried and reburied very many times, but no one has had any constructive response to it.
So I am going to begin a separate thread to preserve it for posterity, and hopefully generate some discussion of this issue and what it means fror the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

A genetic study published in 2009 which was conducted jointly by Hebrew Univeristy and Hadassah Medical Center showed that the Palestinians do NOT come from surrounding countries, as many Zionists now assert. Genetic testing has proved they are the descendants of the Jewish population of the later Roman and post-Roman period who remained on the land after the destruction of the temple. Here is the picture, which I am reposting:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.

The synagogue tradition was developed in response to the destruction of the second temple, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted. By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place. The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc. To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout. Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times. And Palestinians are at least 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times. By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times. So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are? No, I don't think that is the point. The lesson is about demographics and migration.

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted. These were true "Palestinian Jews." The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven. There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity. Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts. All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible. Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc. Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language. It was the language spoken by Christ.

First, please read article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
That will tell you where to get a copy of the study. I have a membership on JSTOR and will go online and look for it in a bit.

Then secondly watch film:
Palestinian people - Part 1 - YouTube

Then thirdly, accept truth.

David Ben Gurion:
"There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the fellaheen. They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."

Now that we know that Palestinians are not just Jews' semitic cousins, they are genetically Jews themselves, the kids of Bar Kochba, what does this mean for discussion of a Palestinian Right of Return?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

And as we explained there are other Arabs / Muslims that have more of the genetic markers than the Palestinians do, such as the Kurds, and yes, even all the way near Russia in the Caucasus mountains. Now what?

So your theory isn't worth more than toilet paper. In fact, toilet paper is worth more because it has a use. Palestinians are identical in culture and genes to their neighbors in Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, and Syria.

Now run along and find something that hasn't been posted and debunked like a thousand times.

 

[MHunterB]

Amity might want to look into the history of British scholarship regarding the subject of serfdom - which was considerably LESS oppressive in medieval England than on the Continent.

The historians' theories as to why and 'who' that difference derived from, changed markedly at a certain point in the last century. Just about two fifths into the 20th Century....

 

[MHunterB]

"Now that we know that Palestinians are not just Jews' semitic cousins, they are genetically Jews themselves, the kids of Bar Kochba, what does this mean for discussion of a Palestinian Right of Return?"

Ah, the old 'nature vs nurture' debate of many a social science!

 

[Roudy]

I posted some interesting information on the "Who are the Palestinians?" thread, and that post has been summarily denounced and buried and reburied very many times, but no one has had any constructive response to it.
So I am going to begin a separate thread to preserve it for posterity, and hopefully generate some discussion of this issue and what it means fror the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

A genetic study published in 2009 which was conducted jointly by Hebrew Univeristy and Hadassah Medical Center showed that the Palestinians do NOT come from surrounding countries, as many Zionists now assert. Genetic testing has proved they are the descendants of the Jewish population of the later Roman and post-Roman period who remained on the land after the destruction of the temple. Here is the picture, which I am reposting:

The Romans crushed the Jewish state in A.D. 70, took many people as slaves to Rome, but the majority escaped to the countryside and continued their resistance .... Masada, Bar Kochba, etc. Of course there were other peoples there at that time, too, it wasn't 100% Jewish, but pretty much.

The synagogue tradition was developed in response to the destruction of the second temple, and some of those synagogues morphed into churches as more and more Jews converted. By time of Constantine, Palestine had a Christian majority, descended from the Jewish population.

At the time of the Muslim conquest there were many conversions, and a little intermarriage, a new language and a new culture that mixed in with the old, but no wholesale migration took place. The bedouin Arabs who were the nucleus of Islamic expansion, were a very tiny population anyway and couldn't have staged a large migration.

Later admixtures have got to include the Crusaders, Turks, etc. To this day you can see blonde haired, blue eyed Palestinians, and black African Palestinians.

But the population of Palestine remained continuous throughout. Note we have father and son, mother and daughter, all the way back to Canaanite times. And Palestinians are at least 80% descended from those who were Jews in Roman times. By the way, modern Jews are descended about 72% from those who were Jews in Roman times. So Palestinians are more Jewish than the modern day Jews are? No, I don't think that is the point. The lesson is about demographics and migration.

And by the way, of course straight through there was a population of Jews who never converted. These were true "Palestinian Jews." The pattern is similar to that of the Samaritans who were left behind during the Jewish Babylonian exile, and remain there today in fact, still practicing a very old form of Judaism that existed before the Babylonian exile.

And this is what genetics has now proven. There is no place for other theories at this point.

It is interesting to see the continuity. Someone made the point that the same patterns that appear on Palestinian women's embroidered dresses are seen in Canaanite handcrafts. All over you will recognize the place names of the Bible. Cana, where Jesus turned water into wine, became Kafr Kana, etc. Most of the Christian traditions native to the Levant and Palestine .... Maronite, Syriac, etc. .... use Aramaic as their religious language. It was the language spoken by Christ.

First, please read article:
Many surprised by genetic and cultural links between Palestinians and Jews | God Reports
That will tell you where to get a copy of the study. I have a membership on JSTOR and will go online and look for it in a bit.

Then secondly watch film:
Palestinian people - Part 1 - YouTube

Then thirdly, accept truth.

David Ben Gurion:
"There is no doubt there is a lot of Jewish blood in the veins of the fellaheen. They had to choose between their religion or their land, and they loved the land so much that they chose their land."

Now that we know that Palestinians are not just Jews' semitic cousins, they are genetically Jews themselves, the kids of Bar Kochba, what does this mean for discussion of a Palestinian Right of Return?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_right_of_return

I prefer to listen to what Arabs have said:

What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".

- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -

“Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?”
“We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag”.
“When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out”.

This declaration by a true "Palestinian" should have some significance for a sincerely neutral observer. Indeed, there is no such a thing like a Palestinian people, or a Palestinian culture, or a Palestinian language, or a Palestinian history. There has never been any Palestinian state, neither any Palestinian archaeological find nor coinage. The present-day "Palestinians" are an Arab people, with Arab culture, Arabic language and Arab history. They have their own Arab states from where they came into the Land of Israel about one century ago to contrast the Jewish immigration. That is the historical truth. They were Jordanians (another recent British invention, as there has never been any people known as "Jordanians"), and after the Six-Day War in which Israel utterly defeated the coalition of nine Arab states and took legitimate possession of Judea and Samaria, the Arab dwellers in those regions underwent a kind of anthropological miracle and discovered that they were Palestinians - something they did not know the day before. Of course, these people having a new identity had to build themselves a history, namely, had to steal some others' history, and the only way that the victims of the theft would not complain is if those victims do no longer exist. Therefore, the Palestinian leaders claimed two contradictory lineages from ancient peoples that inhabited in the Land of Israel: the Canaanites and the Philistines. Let us consider both of them before going on with the Palestinian issue.

 

[amity1844]

According to the genetic study, Palestinian Arabs have more of an identification with ancient Jews (80% - 85%) than modern Jews do (72%).
I am going to let all my Palestinian friends know that they can now make Aliyah, all 9 million. The study makes the point that these Jewish genetic markers are not found among other Arab groups, just Palestinians.

 

[Sally]

According to the genetic study, Palestinian Arabs have more of an identification with ancient Jews (80% - 85%) than modern Jews do (72%).
I am going to let all my Palestinian friends know that they can now make Aliyah, all 9 million.

Of course, Amity is going to give us a legitimate site, perhaps from some scientific journal not written by an Arab propagandist, to show what she is saying is true. I know that David Irving wouldn't fit the bill for this. Meanwhile, I think I will tell all my friends that the Missing Link has been found, and scientists have named her Amity.

 

[amity1844]

It is apparent that you didn't have the guts to look at any of what I posted. It is all from Israeli institutions and was broadcast on Israeli TV. No Arab nothing involved.

 

[Sally]

It is apparent that you didn't have the guts to look at any of what I posted. It is all from Israeli institutions and was broadcast on Israeli TV. No Arab nothing involved.

Amity thinks that people are going to re-read the same nonsense that has been posted ad nauseam by others from the Boiler Room. Well, Amity, show us something from people who actually work in this field, and not what some Leftist Jew wrote in which other Jews say he is wrong. Why don't you hop over to Gaza and help that Egyptian official who not long ago told the Gazans to come back to Egypt where they belong. Look at what a good deed you would be doing.

 

[MJB12741]

This threads got nothin. See ya. Thank goodness for the Who Are The Palestinians Thread to discuss the issue.

 

[amity1844]

Bye!

 

[aris2chat]

I'm not a geneticist but with my limited back ground in medicine it seems that Bedouin and palestinians have the highest presence of the J1 DNA group, which places them south and east of the levant.
>>A second diffusion of the J1 marker took place in the seventh century CE when Arabians brought it from Arabia to North Africa......... Palestinians, like Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouins have what appears to be substantial gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa. <<

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa

 

[amity1844]

I'm not a geneticist but with my limited back ground in medicine it seems that Bedouin and palestinians have the highest presence of the J1 DNA group, which places them south and east of the levant.
>>A second diffusion of the J1 marker took place in the seventh century CE when Arabians brought it from Arabia to North Africa......... Palestinians, like Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouins have what appears to be substantial gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa. <<

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa

I don't think Dr. Oppenheim was denying input of other groups. Her point was that Palestinians mainly descend (80% - 85%) from ancient Jews, that's all.

 

[Sally]

I'm not a geneticist but with my limited back ground in medicine it seems that Bedouin and palestinians have the highest presence of the J1 DNA group, which places them south and east of the levant.
>>A second diffusion of the J1 marker took place in the seventh century CE when Arabians brought it from Arabia to North Africa......... Palestinians, like Jordanians, Syrians, Iraqis, and Bedouins have what appears to be substantial gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa. <<

Genetic Evidence for the Expansion of Arabian Tribes into the Southern Levant and North Africa

I don't think Dr. Oppenheim was denying input of other groups. Her point was that Palestinians mainly descend (80% - 85%) from ancient Jews, that's all.

Now isn't that strange that the British officials in the area noted that these so-called Palestinians were arriving from their impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them, much like we see today -- poor people leaving their poor countries for the opportunity to work. I am sure that anyone, unless they are living out in the sticks, noticed how the population has changed in their own cities and towns. If you haven't noticed this, then you are comatose. Say, that Egyptian official must have known something that Amity doesn't know when he said the Gazans should come back to Egypt where they belong.

 

[amity1844]

I know, yes, you said that. But apparently the influx did not leave a significant genetic legacy behind. Maybe the immigrants weren't a big number compared to the larger population, maybe they all went home at the end. when the economies were again separated. But it does sound like the allegation that Palestinians largely came from elsewhere is spurious.

And after all, "Amity" did not do this genetic study, an Israeli geneticist did, and it puts all other theories to rest.

 

[Sally]

I know, yes, you said that. But apparently the influx did not leave a significant genetic legacy behind. Maybe the immigrants weren't a big number compared to the larger population, maybe they all went home at the end. when the economies were again separated. But it does sound like the allegation that Palestinians largely came from elsewhere is spurious.

You can blabber about this ad nauseam, Amity, as you are hoping that hundreds of new posters will come to this forum each day to pick up your stuff, but until you can show us where this has appeared in a scientific journal and what conferences were held with specialists in this field, I think the majority of us can let this go in one ear and out the other. After all, this would certainly be something that these experts in the field of genetics would be interested in. Meanwhile, carry on like you were some kind of Information Minister for the Palestinian government. Meanwhile, I will go with the British officials who observed all these so-called Palestinians arriving from elsewhere.