So Obama care will force Catholic churches who employ people

[Trajan]

Ummm... huge difference between a Church being able to hire and fire clergy as they please and the AHA.

I don't agree.

Of course you don't... your hatred of everything "Obama" has clouded your reason and your judgment. So anything that could possibly paint any of Obama's policies in a negative light? You will embrace, no matter how stupid the assertions are.

stop projecting, and when you get a grasp of reason and logic call me....all I see is rank stupidity and slobbering partisanship, he wnats it, your masters have spoken and so shal it be....you whinny anytime your masters rev you up ala the cons want to stop this, or make people do this or that...well?

but all that disappears when the dems decide to force orgs whose practices and beliefs preclude such activity and provide for conscience , which has been around before obama was born. Now? its hey you bastards do what we tell you, oh don't believe in it? conscience? faith? 'tough shit, its stupid, you just hate obama thats why'......... how fucking weak is that?... history only started when obama took office and Sebelius says so.

 

[Steelplate]

You may rest it as you see fit. My point was made. YOU have a hard time dealing with real Americans and individuals that don't fall into your groupthink mentality.

So in effect YOU admit freely that you lost. I thank you for that. America is made up of individuals...you FAIL in that regard.

*NEXT*

Don't fall into "groupthink" mentality???? Good God man... you sonofabitches are the very definition of Groupthink mentality!

America is made up of CITIZENS... who decide on the direction of their country via the DEMOCRATIC process of one man/one vote. By that DEMOCRATIC process, we decide our representation, we decide what issues are important and we decide our social structure.

You want to be an "Individual"... go live on an Island somewhere. Otherwise, welcome to our great country and society.

No, you need to go to Cuba. You'd love it there. It's everything you want. I hear they give you a free rice steamer and a 58 Chevy.

You're a fucking moron. Cuba? Why don't you move to China? They've got everything you want.... Slave Labor for rich American Companies, shitty human rights, no sense of social justice... it's perfect for you, the T, and the rest of you assholes.

 

[Steelplate]

I don't agree.

Of course you don't... your hatred of everything "Obama" has clouded your reason and your judgment. So anything that could possibly paint any of Obama's policies in a negative light? You will embrace, no matter how stupid the assertions are.

stop projecting, and when you get a grasp of reason and logic call me....all I see is rank stupidity and slobbering partisanship, he wnats it, your masters have spoken and so shal it be....you whinny anytime your masters rev you up ala the cons want to stop this, or make people do this or that...well?

but all that disappears when the dems decide to force orgs whose practices and beliefs preclude such activity and provide for conscience , which has been around before obama was born. Now? its hey you bastards do what we tell you, oh don't believe in it? conscience? faith? 'tough shit, its stupid, you just hate obama thats why'......... how fucking weak is that?... history only started when obama took office and Sebelius says so.

Yeah.... OK.... re-read your post and take your Conservative colored glasses off... then note the hypocrisy.... I'll wait here.

 

[California Girl]

Doubtful since the majority of Catholics do practice birth control.

But Ravi, it's the CHURCH that's against it, most individual Catholics are pretty comfortable with it.

But..............you can't get a really good little dogma drone unless you raise 'em from birth.

Exactly.

Actually, it's not 'exactly' anything.

Many Catholics practice birth control. Yea.... but you know what they really won't like? The Government forcing their Church to do something that it against its doctrine. I'm hardly a blinkered Catholic.... much as you might want me to be... but I do pay attention to what my Church is doing and why. Because I have a vested interest in it. You don't - because it does not concern you until there is an 'issue'.

 

[mal]

pay for this even though the morning after pill and other birth control is on this plan. Why is the catholic church allow to get waivers but so many others can. This is against their religion. And why is the morning after pill on this. That is the same as covering an abortion so the people on public assistance we are paying for this with our tax dollars /

Embracing Homosexuallity will follow...



peace...

 

[mal]

peace...

 

[StevenC]

It isn't unrelated at all. The employees are free to make their own choices regarding birth control and they can certainly choose not to take it.

This is more about the Catholic Church wanting the government to help them keep their women barefoot and pregnant than it is about anything else.

I'd say this is more of an example of the Catholic church forcing their employees to follow their dogma, regardless of their beliefs.

Yep. And asking the government to help them do so.

Bullshit. They are not being forced to work for these companies.

 

[Trajan]

Of course you don't... your hatred of everything "Obama" has clouded your reason and your judgment. So anything that could possibly paint any of Obama's policies in a negative light? You will embrace, no matter how stupid the assertions are.

stop projecting, and when you get a grasp of reason and logic call me....all I see is rank stupidity and slobbering partisanship, he wnats it, your masters have spoken and so shal it be....you whinny anytime your masters rev you up ala the cons want to stop this, or make people do this or that...well?

but all that disappears when the dems decide to force orgs whose practices and beliefs preclude such activity and provide for conscience , which has been around before obama was born. Now? its hey you bastards do what we tell you, oh don't believe in it? conscience? faith? 'tough shit, its stupid, you just hate obama thats why'......... how fucking weak is that?... history only started when obama took office and Sebelius says so.

Yeah.... OK.... re-read your post and take your Conservative colored glasses off... then note the hypocrisy.... I'll wait here.

uh huh...

 

[Annie]

CG has been saying it, so have I. The rational response for the Church and any other like-minded groups would be to stop taking in patients, students, employees that aren't of their beliefs. While they do that, they concurrently stop taking any federal funds and refuse to acquiesce to government fiats.

 

[paulitician]

Don't mean to derail this thread, but does anyone know about those blue icon tags that are attached to some posts on the Politics main page? Are they search tags or something? And who assigns them? Is it a Mod thing? Because some them are very insulting to the poster. And that would be a pretty dirty use of a search tag feature. This particular tag reads 'catholics are evil, satan catholics.' Ok, just curious. Thanks.

 

[Ravi]

CG has been saying it, so have I. The rational response for the Church and any other like-minded groups would be to stop taking in patients, students, employees that aren't of their beliefs. While they do that, they concurrently stop taking any federal funds and refuse to acquiesce to government fiats.

Why do you hate fiats?

 

[Annie]

CG has been saying it, so have I. The rational response for the Church and any other like-minded groups would be to stop taking in patients, students, employees that aren't of their beliefs. While they do that, they concurrently stop taking any federal funds and refuse to acquiesce to government fiats.

Why do you hate fiats?

What I'm wondering is whether trying to force this upon religious institutions that cater to some of the most needy in the country, often paid from by donations from church members, though the patients and students and their families are not of those organizations, is worth it to those who care about 'the poor?'

This may be the time and issue where those in the administration feel that 'their intelligence' requires them to stand up against their inferiors, (religious believers). If so, they must remember that not only are these folks, particularly Catholics, a big part of their base, but more than a few of them are Jesuit, Franciscan, and Benedictine educated with university degrees from places like Georgetown, Notre Dame, Loyola, and more than a few others.

This op-ed has a few graphs worth considering, if one wishes to discuss and not just derail:

Obamacare’s Great Gift: Clarification by Elizabeth Scalia | First Things

...

With the administration’s decision, the covert culture of death has finally made a truly overt move against the culture of life. On one side, there is cheering. “Women’s groups” are happy. Anti-religionists, particularly those with an animus toward the Catholic church, are nearly delirious. On the other side, there is a grimness that is interesting in its unity, particularly as it is playing out in Catholic media. The furor of more conservative Catholics is unremarkable, but the reactions of the so-called “progressive” church may surprise some for the intensity of their disappointment. At the National Catholic Reporter Michael Sean Winters—furious on behalf of those Catholics who “took some punches” for the sake of President Obama—declares he cannot, in good conscience, cast another vote Obamaward. He now suggests that the bishops chain themselves to the White House fence in order to bring attention to the direct assault this administration is making against the church’s constitutional right to its own conscience—its right to be what it is.

Some, just as disappointed, but looking for a way to continue supporting Obama, are calling the decision “botched,” as though the thing simply wasn’t sufficiently thought-through. Others are hoping that one state’s exemption rules might somehow be adapted to Obamacare, so consciences might be assuaged by November. On NPR, Cokie Roberts expresses concern that Obama may have “created problems” for himself and his re-election.

But HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius and President Obama “botched” nothing. The decision put forth is a purposeful one, transparently provocative. If the administration had simply wanted to provide free contraception and sterilization to those who want it, they could have inserted that notion into any one of a number of spending or entitlement bills. Had they meant to demonstrate respect for conscience–and according to Archbishop Timothy Dolan the president said he “considered the protection of conscience sacred”–the administration could have taken the advice of others and looked closely at how Hawaii managed conscience exemptions under their law.

There are questions as to whether HHS has authority to issue exemptions to Obamacare, although quite a few have been issued for reasons other than conscience. There appear to be no questions in the president’s mind, or in Secretary Sebelius’, that they have the authority to intrude on freedom of religion. With this ruling they insist that church-affiliated institutions either act against their own belief or so narrow the scope of their community service as to be removed from the public square; either way, the government is deliberately affecting the free exercise of religion. Considering some Catholic schools, hospitals and charities were serving their communities before the secular governments even thought to follow suit, that is a damnable, and damning, legacy for a president who once taught constitutional law.

To be sure, this situation is cause for concern, but there are some bright spots in all of this. Although the mainstream press has reported very little about this event—a close examination might prove uncomfortable for their own worldviews—the unified public expression of righteous defiance by the U.S. bishops is a powerful development.

Just as importantly, the laity—divided for decades on issues ranging from felt-banners to dress to dogma—has found a line in the sand upon which they can come together; “conservative” Catholics are reassured to see their more “progressive” brethren defending the church’s right to be who and what she is; more “progressive” Catholics may be coming to realize that—as relentlessly single-minded as some of their opponents could be—had they not held the line all these years, much could be crumbling at this moment.

Now is the time for all good Catholics to come to the aid of providers—the schools, hospitals, charities, and soup kitchens who serve communities in need without asking affiliations. And, in coming together, perhaps now is the time to ponder their long-held presumptions, each about the other, and broaden our own outreach as well.

If nothing else, in declaring war against our consciences, the Obama administration has given American Catholics a great gift of clarification; a fractious family we may be, but—as the saying goes—we are church. And we have the right to be who we are.

 

[Rozman]

pay for this even though the morning after pill and other birth control is on this plan. Why is the catholic church allow to get waivers but so many others can. This is against their religion. And why is the morning after pill on this. That is the same as covering an abortion so the people on public assistance we are paying for this with our tax dollars /

And the Linkee for this story is........where?

Why are you so fucking lazy to use google.. If I ever have a question about a post I go to google to confirm or deny the posters post. Just like every one on the left they want everything handed to them and not work for it.. Its on google LOOK FOR IT> I will not give it to you

Typical lazy democrat.Want everything done for them.
No link it never happened.
If it's on Fox News it was made up.....

This has been talked about on every frigging talk show today.....

 

[sfcalifornia]

Well, now that I have exposed the myth regarding 'pedophile' priests, they have to find another weapon against the Church.

What have YOU exposed? Let me guess... it was a Communist Plot and none of those priests did anything wrong.

To T: What is it with you right wing assholes that you think your religious beliefs should set the tone for a free country?

I'm not in the habit of repeating myself for the idiots who can't read. But.... 400,000 priests in the Catholic Church. How many are even accused of pedophilia? 0.03%. 0.03% - that's considerably less than professions such as teachers, sports coaches, and a variety of other professions with open access to children.

hmmmm.......

400,000 X .0003 = 12

Only 12 Catholic priests have been accused of pedophilia? You're going to have to post a link for that one.

 

[Greenbeard]

CG has been saying it, so have I. The rational response for the Church and any other like-minded groups would be to stop taking in patients, students, employees that aren't of their beliefs. While they do that, they concurrently stop taking any federal funds and refuse to acquiesce to government fiats.

Health insurance regulations aren't contingent upon acceptance of federal funds.

 

[Annie]

CG has been saying it, so have I. The rational response for the Church and any other like-minded groups would be to stop taking in patients, students, employees that aren't of their beliefs. While they do that, they concurrently stop taking any federal funds and refuse to acquiesce to government fiats.

Health insurance regulations aren't contingent upon acceptance of federal funds.

Never said they were, follow the logic.

 

[Ravi]

Again, this doesn't apply to churches. It applies to SOME businesses that the church owns. And no one is being forced to use birth control. It is merely offered as part of the insurance plan. There is no reason to penalize secular employees.

 

[EriktheRed]

In response to this...

...from where I stand these days, the only thing I see religion doing in the public sector is gay bashing and telling women, mostly poor and desperate and in deplorable financial and personal situations, what to do with their bodies. I see busybodies deciding what drugs they can dispense to which customers, or deciding that they don’t have to issue a marriage license because of some petty deity that I don’t believe in told them to hate their fellow citizens and ignore the law. In a country in dire financial straits but still spending billions and billions of dollars on education, I see religious folks actively and openly working to make our schoolkids dumber. I see them shooting people who provided a medical procedure, and I see others rummaging through people’s personal lives to find out who hasn’t lived up the word of God. I see glassy-eyed fools running for President claiming that vaccines that save lives actually cause cancer, or that if you get raped and are pregnant, you should just lie back and think of Jeebus and make the best of a bad situation. In fact, everywhere you look these days, if Christianity or religion is getting a mention, it means something ugly is happening and someone somewhere is being victimized, marginalized, or otherwise abused. Go read some of the arguments against integration and you’ll see the same bible verses used today against homosexuals. Fifty years from now, they’ll be recycling them again to trash someone else they don’t like or who isn’t good enough for them.

So, I’m sorry, Ross. I don’t give a shit about your invisible Jeebus, I don’t care if under the iron hand of Obamacare there might be a little more access to contraceptives, and until you and the rest of your godbothering pals get your act together and stop being a burden and cancer on society, I really don’t care what you think. Deal with it.

Balloon Juice » I Don’t Care About Your Invisible Jeebus

 

[Annie]

Again, this doesn't apply to churches. It applies to SOME businesses that the church owns. And no one is being forced to use birth control. It is merely offered as part of the insurance plan. There is no reason to penalize secular employees.

Literally all schools in inner cities, all hospitals, all charitable outlets, all universities. Why? Because they don't just serve their own members, indeed they take members of all faiths and non-believers too. So no, the parish staff, likely to be of the church, would not be forced to offer these 'benefits' but all other would.

So they should close those that cannot be populated with those who believe. Get rid of the notion of serving 'all.' I mean who needs all those schools and hospitals in the bad areas of NY, Chicago, Detroit, LA, etc? Who needs Loyola Hospital, Boston University Hospital, Creighton Hospital, other than Catholics?

 

[California Girl]

Again, this doesn't apply to churches. It applies to SOME businesses that the church owns. And no one is being forced to use birth control. It is merely offered as part of the insurance plan. There is no reason to penalize secular employees.

Again, the Catholic church funds hospitals and other service providers that, if not granted a waiver, will have to shut their doors to non Catholics. Currently, those hospitals treat and care for anyone - regardless of race, color, creed, sexual orientation, financial status, etc. The Church does not penalize anyone - but it cannot fund birth control/abortion/morning after pills.... it's against our religion. Stop discriminating against us.