Truthmatters
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- May 10, 2007
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If you have something to ask the ask it and quit playing childish games
So, is the left denouncing Obama's "unlawful" war in Libya?
- Thread starter Liberty
- Start date
If you have something to ask the ask it and quit playing childish games
Big Fitz
User Quit *****
- Nov 23, 2009
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So this is just another "Vietnam Style Police Action"? Or a Peacekeeping Action like in Kosovo? Is that why the lefties are uncomfortably silent?
WillowTree
Diamond Member
- Sep 15, 2008
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It was when he was doing it. And then he gassed 5000 Kurds.. You didn't mind that did ya?
Kevin_Kennedy
Defend Liberty
- Aug 27, 2008
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When you lob missiles at a country you are engaged in an act of war. Just because it's endorsed by the U.N. doesn't make it any less of a war.
That is not how it works no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
The law say you are wrong
Your interpretation of the law, which is based on nonsense, says I'm wrong.
The most conservative estimates are that about 400,000 perished due to unnatural means during Saddam's regime--several Iraqis have put the worst case scenario at more than a million. About 50,000 perished due to lack of medical care or malnutrition or starvation during the 12 long years of sanctions when Saddam was using the OFF funds to build more lavish palaces, enrich himself, and pay off cronies. Most of those were children.
The Iraqis who perished due to American and allies conflict total in the high hundreds or low thousands. Far more perished at the hands of the insurgents and militant rebels within the country that had nothing to do with us.
Just to keep it honest here.
Truthmatters
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Truthmatters
Diamond Member
- May 10, 2007
- 80,182
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- Banned
- #147
Truthmatters
Diamond Member
- May 10, 2007
- 80,182
- 2,276
- 1,283
- Banned
- #148
When you lob missiles at a country you are engaged in an act of war. Just because it's endorsed by the U.N. doesn't make it any less of a war.
That is not how it works no matter how much you want to pretend it is.
The law say you are wrong
Your interpretation of the law, which is based on nonsense, says I'm wrong.
Then why has the SCOTUS not taken up your interpitation of the laws?
Because you are as wrong as a partisan hack can be.
Big Fitz
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- Nov 23, 2009
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Who was surveyed? The Ba'athist Party? Pffft. 2000 interviews with unknown variables abotu who they are. For all we know they got 90% Al Quaeda supporters.
Freedom is a scary thing. The Israelites learned that when freed from Egypt, and ended up wandering for 70 years in the desert till every last one who was in Egypt had passed on and only their descendants arrived in the promised land.
Many people cannot make the jump but fall for another dictator and tyrant if not careful.
Your poll's internals suck dick.
Sure. Saddam's Baath Party was doing very very well under Saddam. The common people not so well.
And you are honestly excusing Saddam for 400k to 1million murders because he had a long time to accomplish them? And accusing Bush of the same thing for deaths that were casualties of war?
If the Iraqis had laid down their arms after the first push when the Republican Guard was crushed, nobody needed to die from that point on. And we would have rebuilt Iraq in short order and the people would have been free and prosperous and in full charge of their own destiny. But al Qaida and others were determined that there be no free and prosperous Iraq and they have kept up the hostilities all this time.
If you really want to target a villain target them.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
naaaaah no sale. you cannot make hey of their hypocrisy while being called on hypocrisy, its a wash.
ok....
Except I can't be called on hypocrisy since I'm actually consistent. Unlike the neocons and certain Conservatives on USMB who have never found a war they didn't like until now. Though I congratulate them if they are honest about changing their belief that the U.S should be the world's police, or something else along those lines.
ok.I will take your word, no problem.
anyway, whats your take on our stances on Yemen and Bahrain?
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Stephanie
Diamond Member
- Jul 11, 2004
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you are a disgusting LIAR.
Human rights in Saddam Hussein's IraqFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaJump to: navigation, search
Iraq under Saddam Hussein had high levels of torture and mass murder.
Secret police, torture, murders, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical weapons, and the destruction of wetlands (more specifically, the destruction of the food sources of rival groups) were some of the methods Saddam Hussein used to maintain control.[original research?] The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period are unknown, as are the reports of human rights violations. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture.
Contents [hide]
1 Documented human rights violations 1979–2003
2 'Saddam's Dirty Dozen'
3 Number of Victims
3.1 Iraq sanctions
4 See also
5 References
6 External links
[edit] Documented human rights violations 1979–2003 This section needs additional citations for verification.
Please help improve this article by adding reliable references. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (February 2011)
Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.
In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law". The resolution demanded that Iraq immediately put an end to its "summary and arbitrary executions... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances".[1]
Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Arab Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
Iraqi citizens were not allowed to assemble legally unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities.
Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling abroad without government permission and expensive exit visas. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi females could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a man relative.[2]
The activities of citizens living inside Iraq who received money from relatives abroad were closely monitored[citation needed].
Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed.[3]
Al-Anfal Campaign: In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The campaign was mostly directed at Shiite kurds (Faili Kurds) who sided with Iranians during the Iraq-Iran War. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 100,000 people), many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms and power stations.[3][4]
In April 1991, after Saddam lost control of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War, he cracked down ruthlessly against several uprisings in the Kurdish north and the Shia south. His forces committed wholesale massacres and other gross human rights violations against both groups similar to the violations mentioned before. Estimates of deaths during that time range from 20,000 to 100,000 for Kurds, and 60,000 to 130,000 for Shi'ites.[5]
In June 1994, the Hussein regime in Iraq established severe penalties, including amputation, branding and the death penalty for criminal offenses such as theft, corruption, currency speculation and military desertion, while government members and Saddam's family members were immune from punishments ranging around these crimes.[6]
On March 23, 2003 during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Iraqi television presented and interviewed prisoners of war on TV, violating the Geneva Convention.
Also in April 2003, CNN revealed that it had withheld information about Iraq torturing journalists and Iraqi citizens in the 1990s. According to CNN's chief news executive, the channel had been concerned for the safety not only of its own staff, but also of Iraqi sources and informants, who could expect punishment for speaking freely to reporters. Also according to the executive, "other news organizations were in the same bind."[7]
After the 2003 invasion of Iraq, several mass graves were found in Iraq containing several thousand bodies total and more are being uncovered to this day[citation needed]. While most of the dead in the graves were believed to have died in the 1991 uprising against Saddam Hussein, some of them appeared to have died due to executions or died at times other than the 1991 rebellion.
Also after the invasion, numerous torture centers were found in security offices and police stations throughout Iraq. The equipment found at these centers typically included hooks for hanging people by the hands for beatings, devices for electric shock and other equipment often found in nations with harsh security services and other authoritarian nations.
FROM your favorite PLACE.
Human rights in Saddam Hussein's Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
jillian
Princess
I don't know what the numbers are for how many iraqis died under saddam.
i do know that your guesstimate of high hundreds/low thousands being how many iraquis died as a result of our invasion of iraq has no relationship to reality.
the lowest estimates are over 98,000 (iraq body count project) and 110,000 (AP). There are sources like wikileaks that place the number far higher. i link wiki b/c it gives the full array of estimates.
Casualties of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
When I got to 'Art Bell' I literally spit out half a mouthful of leftover corned beef.
147 Democrats voted against the Iraq war authorization.
Quick! How many Republicans voted against it???
Mr. Shaman
Senior Member
- May 4, 2010
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....And, you're a History-challenged Teabagger.
You can wander (on back) to the kiddies-table, again.
You can wander (on back) to the kiddies-table, again.
Not by our hand however. More, many times over, have been killed by other Arabs/Muslims to prevent a free and independent Iraq than by any military action of the USA. And many more would have been killed if we had not been there to intervene. And that's the plain truth. Sometime find an honest educated Iraqi and ask him or her what life was like under Saddam. I guarantee you that you'll get an earful.
We can debate until the cows come home whether we should have gone into Iraq and probably a larger consensus would now say no than would say yes. But once there, I can't fault us for not turning innocent people over to worse devils than the one we displaced. It may turn out that way in the end anyway just because our leaders chose to fight a politically correct war instead of just going in with overwhelming force and ending it as we did in Germany and Japan.
Time will tell whether the cost in blood and treasure was worth it. I hope with all my heart that it was. If not, I would like to think we learned a lesson not to do that kind of thing again.
Along those same lines, I wonder now what our objective is in Lybia and how we will know that we have met it?
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
Tell me, are we witnessing a cultural shift? Have conservatives become peaceniks now?
If so, here's what you should do. Make a bunch of tie dyed t-shirts, pile into a VW microbus, drive to DC and hold a rally while singing "Give Peace a Chance," and chanting "Make Love Not War" when the Capitol Police start swinging their batons.
It's that unwritten conservative rule: you must find some way to oppose Obama even when he's doing what you agree with.
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
60 million dollars worth of missiles fired off in the space of a few minutes.
That would be 1000 teachers' salaries for one year. But no, we can't afford THAT.
That would be 1000 teachers' salaries for one year. But no, we can't afford THAT.
Trajan
conscientia mille testes
When I got to 'Art Bell' I literally spit out half a mouthful of leftover corned beef.
147 Democrats voted against the Iraq war authorization.
Quick! How many Republicans voted against it???
you eat meat??
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