Smoker's - A Place to Work & Shop?

[Moonglow]

I am more interested in pot clubs and yes, there is smoking permitted......but leave that nasty tobacco outside....

 

[Pogo]

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

Desiring to breathe oxygen is "prissy"?

pris·sy ˈprisē/
adjective
adjective: prissy; comparative adjective: prissier; superlative adjective: prissiest
fussily and excessively respectable.
"her prissy mother"
synonyms: prudish, priggish, prim, prim and proper, strait-laced, Victorian, old-maidish, schoolmarmish;
informalstarchy
"the family was stunned when prissy Aunt Trudy ran off with the tractor salesman"

How would you describe fish? "Whiny"?
Damn gill breathers....

Expecting every single bar to cater to your desire is sure as hell prissy. If a person wants to open a bar that allows smoking, what's the problem?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is a "desire" to be "catered to"?
You're not getting this, are you...

 

[Pogo]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

Is keeping the air (relatively) unpolluted "promoting the general welfare", or is it not? Seems a fairly straightforward equivalence, IMHO. Where might be the exclusionary language?

You're basing it on primarily correlative evidence, what we don't know about external, environmental affects on the human body can fill libraries. From a purely scientific standpoint for all we really know the vast majority of diseases associated with tobacco could just as easily be associated with the over 2000 nuclear tests conducted since the first atom bomb was tested or the unknown (definitely large) number of plastics that have been burned since plastic was first invented not to mention what has been released into the atmosphere with their manufacture. We really don't know all the possible variables so given those (relatively few empirical) incidents where tobacco can be linked to diseases it's just much simpler to extrapolate and blame tobacco alone.

I think that science is pretty much settled, and has been for a long time.

 

[Pogo]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

There is no federal ban on public smoking.....it is done at the state level

Bingo.

I see. If that was the point I missed that distinction. To this day I have yet to see the merit in all this angsty parsing of whether something is "federal level" or "state level". Whether it's Romneycare or Obamacare that forces me to buy something I don't want, the end result is the same; given the event, the question of which level it comes from just doesn't seem the most important thing in the world -- or even relevant.

What is the point of such hair-splitting anyway? Government is government.

 

[rightwinger]

Smokers should be free to spread their filth wherever they please

Just lke the good ole days

You don't have to patronize any establishment that chooses to allow smoking do you?

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

A bar owner does not get to decide whether he should serve minors, maintain a fire hazard or exceed occupancy limits........or allow smoking

 

[martybegan]

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

Desiring to breathe oxygen is "prissy"?

pris·sy ˈprisē/
adjective
adjective: prissy; comparative adjective: prissier; superlative adjective: prissiest
fussily and excessively respectable.
"her prissy mother"
synonyms: prudish, priggish, prim, prim and proper, strait-laced, Victorian, old-maidish, schoolmarmish;
informalstarchy
"the family was stunned when prissy Aunt Trudy ran off with the tractor salesman"

How would you describe fish? "Whiny"?
Damn gill breathers....

Expecting every single bar to cater to your desire is sure as hell prissy. If a person wants to open a bar that allows smoking, what's the problem?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is a "desire" to be "catered to"?
You're not getting this, are you...

I'm getting it fine. you are an uptight, controlling jack off.

 

[Ringel05]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

Is keeping the air (relatively) unpolluted "promoting the general welfare", or is it not? Seems a fairly straightforward equivalence, IMHO. Where might be the exclusionary language?

You're basing it on primarily correlative evidence, what we don't know about external, environmental affects on the human body can fill libraries. From a purely scientific standpoint for all we really know the vast majority of diseases associated with tobacco could just as easily be associated with the over 2000 nuclear tests conducted since the first atom bomb was tested or the unknown (definitely large) number of plastics that have been burned since plastic was first invented not to mention what has been released into the atmosphere with their manufacture. We really don't know all the possible variables so given those (relatively few empirical) incidents where tobacco can be linked to diseases it's just much simpler to extrapolate and blame tobacco alone.

I think that science is pretty much settled, and has been for a long time.

Good luck on that one. Try a little research into it, look for the empirical specifically where in involves second hand smoke.

 

[rightwinger]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

She/he who signs the checks, makes the rules. Period!

Actually there are hundreds of labor laws
A safe work environment is one of them

 

[martybegan]

You don't have to patronize any establishment that chooses to allow smoking do you?

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

A bar owner does not get to decide whether he should serve minors, maintain a fire hazard or exceed occupancy limits........or allow smoking

smoking isn't the same thing, particularly if everyone involved is a willing participant.

Now someone, somewhere is probably having a good time, so go scurry off and figure out a way to ruin that, in the name of helping them.

 

[Pogo]

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

Desiring to breathe oxygen is "prissy"?

pris·sy ˈprisē/
adjective
adjective: prissy; comparative adjective: prissier; superlative adjective: prissiest
fussily and excessively respectable.
"her prissy mother"
synonyms: prudish, priggish, prim, prim and proper, strait-laced, Victorian, old-maidish, schoolmarmish;
informalstarchy
"the family was stunned when prissy Aunt Trudy ran off with the tractor salesman"

How would you describe fish? "Whiny"?
Damn gill breathers....

Expecting every single bar to cater to your desire is sure as hell prissy. If a person wants to open a bar that allows smoking, what's the problem?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is a "desire" to be "catered to"?
You're not getting this, are you...

I'm getting it fine. you are an uptight, controlling jack off.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is being an "uptight controlling jack off [sic]"?

No, I don't think you are.

What do you breathe, sir? Did the doctor say you're not getting enough tar?

 

[Ringel05]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

There is no federal ban on public smoking.....it is done at the state level

Bingo.

I see. If that was the point I missed that distinction. To this day I have yet to see the merit in all this angsty parsing of whether something is "federal level" or "state level". Whether it's Romneycare or Obamacare that forces me to buy something I don't want, the end result is the same; given the event, the question of which level it comes from just doesn't seem the most important thing in the world -- or even relevant.

What is the point of such hair-splitting anyway? Government is government.

Noooo, the States have specific powers and the Federal has specific powers.

 

[martybegan]

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

Desiring to breathe oxygen is "prissy"?

pris·sy ˈprisē/
adjective
adjective: prissy; comparative adjective: prissier; superlative adjective: prissiest
fussily and excessively respectable.
"her prissy mother"
synonyms: prudish, priggish, prim, prim and proper, strait-laced, Victorian, old-maidish, schoolmarmish;
informalstarchy
"the family was stunned when prissy Aunt Trudy ran off with the tractor salesman"

How would you describe fish? "Whiny"?
Damn gill breathers....

Expecting every single bar to cater to your desire is sure as hell prissy. If a person wants to open a bar that allows smoking, what's the problem?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is a "desire" to be "catered to"?
You're not getting this, are you...

I'm getting it fine. you are an uptight, controlling jack off.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is being an "uptight controlling jack off [sic]?

No, I don't think you are.

What do you breathe, sir?

So cigarette smoke impacts the oxygen % in the air in a bar to a noticeable degree?

Again, as long as the bar posts a sign that says "smoking allowed" where is the harm to you?

 

[Pogo]

Desiring to breathe oxygen is "prissy"?

pris·sy ˈprisē/
adjective
adjective: prissy; comparative adjective: prissier; superlative adjective: prissiest
fussily and excessively respectable.
"her prissy mother"
synonyms: prudish, priggish, prim, prim and proper, strait-laced, Victorian, old-maidish, schoolmarmish;
informalstarchy
"the family was stunned when prissy Aunt Trudy ran off with the tractor salesman"

How would you describe fish? "Whiny"?
Damn gill breathers....

Expecting every single bar to cater to your desire is sure as hell prissy. If a person wants to open a bar that allows smoking, what's the problem?

GO SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is a "desire" to be "catered to"?
You're not getting this, are you...

I'm getting it fine. you are an uptight, controlling jack off.

Expecting to breathe oxygen is being an "uptight controlling jack off [sic]?

No, I don't think you are.

What do you breathe, sir?

So cigarette smoke impacts the oxygen % in the air in a bar to a noticeable degree?

Again, as long as the bar posts a sign that says "smoking allowed" where is the harm to you?

I'm not debating that. I'm debating your characterization of oxygen-breathing as "prissy".

Why don't you show us how to breathe O2 like a he-man.

 

[rightwinger]

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

Why should an owner, if he wants to create a bar that caters to smokers, be forced to accommodate your prissy ass?

A bar owner does not get to decide whether he should serve minors, maintain a fire hazard or exceed occupancy limits........or allow smoking

smoking isn't the same thing, particularly if everyone involved is a willing participant.

Now someone, somewhere is probably having a good time, so go scurry off and figure out a way to ruin that, in the name of helping them.

If occupancy is 100 persons, you can't admit 150 even if everyone agrees to take the risk

 

[Pogo]

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

There is no federal ban on public smoking.....it is done at the state level

Bingo.

I see. If that was the point I missed that distinction. To this day I have yet to see the merit in all this angsty parsing of whether something is "federal level" or "state level". Whether it's Romneycare or Obamacare that forces me to buy something I don't want, the end result is the same; given the event, the question of which level it comes from just doesn't seem the most important thing in the world -- or even relevant.

What is the point of such hair-splitting anyway? Government is government.

Noooo, the States have specific powers and the Federal has specific powers.

No doubt.

zzzzzzzzzzz.....

 

[Ava]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

It is NOT okay for the government to decide this. The free-market will take care of it on it's own. Here is an example:

When a large mini pet shop ( chain ) opened in my town of 10,000 people, it took off very successfully. We needed one and it was prime, including good customer service. It was tobacco-free and there were many cars always parked in front.

A year after it opened the store began selling cigarettes....huge section of the store behind the check-out counter attracted people waiting in line to buy cigarettes and they smelled disgustingly offensive, The cigarette smell on their disheveled clothing and in their hair traveled all over the store and ruined my experience shopping and so I went back to Amazon, and haven't been to the mini pet store since.

I don't wonder why there are fewer cars parked there anymore and how the shop is doing financially. I do feel sorry for their employees, if they are non-smokers.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Smokers should be free to spread their filth wherever they please

Just lke the good ole days

You don't have to patronize any establishment that chooses to allow smoking do you?

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

So it's all about you all the time huh?

Why do you have the right to tell a business owner what he can or can't allow on his own property?

Seriously IDGAF if a place wants to allow smoking I just won't go there. I'm not so thin skinned as to take it personally I guess

 

[Skull Pilot]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

Is keeping the air (relatively) unpolluted "promoting the general welfare", or is it not? Seems a fairly straightforward equivalence, IMHO. Where might be the exclusionary language?

Cars pollute the air far more than does smoking a cigarette.

And no one is forcing to enter a building where people are smoking are they?

 

[rightwinger]

Smokers should be free to spread their filth wherever they please

Just lke the good ole days

You don't have to patronize any establishment that chooses to allow smoking do you?

Evidently.......neither do smokers

I'm not the one spreading stench

So why do you care if a bar allows smoking when you don't have to patronize that establishment?

Why should the decision of passing up a meal or bar experience be mine, when I am not the one engaging in offensive behavior?

The smoker can decide when he will smoke

So it's all about you all the time huh?

Why do you have the right to tell a business owner what he can or can't allow on his own property?

Seriously IDGAF if a place wants to allow smoking I just won't go there. I'm not so thin skinned as to take it personally I guess

Why does a smoker have a right to expose his filth to others anytime he pleases?

 

[rightwinger]

Should people be allowed to have work environments and run business that permit smoking?

If I'm a smoker and I want people to feel free to do so also and I own a business, should I have the right to do so? what if I want to run an establishment where I want people to smoke?

Or is it ok for the Government to decide this?

Let's see what the Book that establishes the government says:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common Defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
​

Nope. You still cannot get around the laws of physics. People breathe air. There is no job or business that requires smoking. It's the same reason you can't just go dump antifreeze into your local water supply. Does the government, in its role as guardian of the public welfare, not have the right to prohibit you doing that?

Why would you "want people to smoke"? In your business or anywhere? Are you a (drug pusher) tobacco company? Would you "want" people to shoot heroin?

That's an extremely modern and incorrect application to the phrase Promote the General Welfare, an application (use of the phrase) never intended by the founding fathers.
The Founders made it clear that the general welfare was only referring to specifically enumerated powers granted within the Constitution, as Jefferson, Madison, Hamilton, and the Federalist Papers stated.

Is keeping the air (relatively) unpolluted "promoting the general welfare", or is it not? Seems a fairly straightforward equivalence, IMHO. Where might be the exclusionary language?

Cars pollute the air far more than does smoking a cigarette.

And no one is forcing to enter a building where people are smoking are they?

If that is the case, I would oppose you operating your car in a bar or restaurant