Smithsonian: How to Talk with Evangelicals about Evolution

[Fort Fun Indiana]

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case.” -Darwin

AND.. indeed he was right, confirmed by DNA nearly 100 years later!
and with All other relevant sciences in the explosion of them in the 160 years since.

`

But Francis and ding and JBond kinda, sorta FEEL cells are too complicated to have developed that way. And that is "proof" enough for them.

 

[abu afak]

Appeal to Complexity

Concluding that just because you don’t understand the argument, the argument is not true, flawed, or improbable. This is a specific form of the argument from ignorance.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

(LogicallyFallacious,com)

Appeal to Complexity​

​

Description: Concluding that because you don't understand something, it must not be true, it's improbable, or the argument must be flawed. This is a specific form of the argument from ignorance.​

​

Logical Form:​

I don't understand argument X.​

Therefore, argument X cannot be true / is flawed / improbable.​

​

Example #1:​

​

Bill the Eye Guy: The development of the eye is monophyletic, meaning they have their origins in a Proto-Eye that evolved around 540 million years ago.​

Multiple eye types and subtypes developed in parallel. We know this partly because eyes in various animals show adaption to their requirements.​

​

Toby: Uh, that sounds made up. I don't think the eye could have evolved.​

​

Explanation: Yes, the evolution of the eye is confusing to Non-biologists and those who are not familiar with evolutionary theory and natural selection. But the complexity of this argument is not a reason to reject it or find it less credible than a simpler claim (e.g. Zeus created eyes from clay)....​

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[CrusaderFrank]

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case.” -Darwin

AND.. indeed he was right, (Common Descent) confirmed by DNA nearly 100 years later!
and with All other relevant sciences in the explosion of them in the 160 years since.

`

And DNA was just all random, right?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Randomly formed DNA strands perfectly replicates itself.

Does half a DNA make a half cell? Why not?

Is your awareness, your idea of self just chemicals?

It's not monkeys at a keyboard typing the works of Shakespeare, which could never happen; it's monkeys looking at the blueprints of life and telling themselves it's just randomly drawn

 

[Hollie]

“If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find no such case.” -Darwin

AND.. indeed he was right, (Common Descent) confirmed by DNA nearly 100 years later!
and with All other relevant sciences in the explosion of them in the 160 years since.

`

And DNA was just all random, right?

No. An entire consortium of gods made it.

Your gods couldn't do it alone. It's too complicated.

 

[Hollie]

Randomly formed DNA strands perfectly replicates itself.

Does half a DNA make a half cell? Why not?

Is your awareness, your idea of self just chemicals?

It's not monkeys at a keyboard typing the works of Shakespeare, which could never happen; it's monkeys looking at the blueprints of life and telling themselves it's just randomly drawn

DNA doesn't perfectly replicate. You flunked out of 8th grade biology. Now you see the damage you did to yourself.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And DNA was just all random, right?

Absolutely not. Selection is not random. I thought we covered this? Pay attention!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

And DNA was just all random, right?

Absolutely not. Selection is not random. I thought we covered this? Pay attention!

It's not random? That's what we've been telling you

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Randomly formed DNA strands perfectly replicates itself.

Does half a DNA make a half cell? Why not?

Is your awareness, your idea of self just chemicals?

It's not monkeys at a keyboard typing the works of Shakespeare, which could never happen; it's monkeys looking at the blueprints of life and telling themselves it's just randomly drawn

DNA doesn't perfectly replicate. You flunked out of 8th grade biology. Now you see the damage you did to yourself.

Each DNA glitches? Are you sure?

 

[Hollie]

Randomly formed DNA strands perfectly replicates itself.

Does half a DNA make a half cell? Why not?

Is your awareness, your idea of self just chemicals?

It's not monkeys at a keyboard typing the works of Shakespeare, which could never happen; it's monkeys looking at the blueprints of life and telling themselves it's just randomly drawn

DNA doesn't perfectly replicate. You flunked out of 8th grade biology. Now you see the damage you did to yourself.

Each DNA glitches? Are you sure?

Are you not paying attention to what I wrote?

DNA doesn't replicate perfectly. Your gods would have to be rather incompetent designers to magically create something prone to failure.

You need some better trained gods.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Randomly formed DNA strands perfectly replicates itself.

Does half a DNA make a half cell? Why not?

Is your awareness, your idea of self just chemicals?

It's not monkeys at a keyboard typing the works of Shakespeare, which could never happen; it's monkeys looking at the blueprints of life and telling themselves it's just randomly drawn

DNA doesn't perfectly replicate. You flunked out of 8th grade biology. Now you see the damage you did to yourself.

Each DNA glitches? Are you sure?

Are you not paying attention to what I wrote?

DNA doesn't replicate perfectly. Your gods would have to be rather incompetent designers to magically create something prone to failure.

You need some better trained gods.

So each DNA glitches? Really?

 

[abu afak]

So each DNA glitches? Really?

Yup.
That's a basic.
EACH one doesn't have to 'glitch' every generation and few do obviously but...
No mutation/glitches/error, no Evo.
That's why we have such variety among humans, and many morphed and failed ancestors.
With no errors/mutations, we'd all still look like Adam and Eve. (Or whatever BS you believe)

And I might add your Complexity/Incredulity fallacies have been answered many times, (incl my last) yet you Dishonestly/Idiotically/Obnoxiously just REPEAT because you have/Choose NO answer to save your god. (one of thousands)
`

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So each DNA glitches? Really?

Yup.
That's a basic.
EACH one doesn't have to 'glitch' every generation and few do obviously but...
No mutation/glitches/error, no Evo.
That's why we have such variety among humans, and many morphed and failed ancestors.
With no errors/mutations, we'd all still look like Adam and Eve. (Or whatever BS you believe)

And I might add your Complexity/Incredulity fallacies have been answered many times, (incl my last) yet you Dishonestly/Idiotically/Obnoxiously just REPEAT because you have/Choose NO answer to save your god. (one of thousands)
`

You're not understanding the math is not my problem.

Can you please expand on your glitch analogy? When was the last one?

 

[Hollie]

So each DNA glitches? Really?

Yup.
That's a basic.
EACH one doesn't have to 'glitch' every generation and few do obviously but...
No mutation/glitches/error, no Evo.
That's why we have such variety among humans, and many morphed and failed ancestors.
With no errors/mutations, we'd all still look like Adam and Eve. (Or whatever BS you believe)

And I might add your Complexity/Incredulity fallacies have been answered many times, (incl my last) yet you Dishonestly/Idiotically/Obnoxiously just REPEAT because you have/Choose NO answer to save your god. (one of thousands)
`

You're not understanding the math is not my problem.

Can you please expand on your glitch analogy? When was the last one?

It's apparent that a basic understanding of biology is the problem you're encountering.

"Chance" will certainly play a part in biological evolution, but you're not understanding the fundamental role of natural selection. Natural selection as a function of environment is the very opposite of chance. "Random chance", in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the building block that natural selection acts upon. Beginning there, natural selection assembles and sorts out certain variations. Those genetic variations which provide greater reproductive success to the organisms possessing those advantageous mutations are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. Biology ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable. Environment changes and when organisms are subject to environmental isolation clearly show adaptation, as different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Mutations that are harmful to the process of adaptation usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating.

Why did your gods make DNA susceptible to damage from sunlight, (UV radiation)? That seems like incompetent design and planning. Shirley, there must be something in the Bible that addresses DNA structure.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

So each DNA glitches? Really?

Yup.
That's a basic.
EACH one doesn't have to 'glitch' every generation and few do obviously but...
No mutation/glitches/error, no Evo.
That's why we have such variety among humans, and many morphed and failed ancestors.
With no errors/mutations, we'd all still look like Adam and Eve. (Or whatever BS you believe)

And I might add your Complexity/Incredulity fallacies have been answered many times, (incl my last) yet you Dishonestly/Idiotically/Obnoxiously just REPEAT because you have/Choose NO answer to save your god. (one of thousands)
`

You're not understanding the math is not my problem.

Can you please expand on your glitch analogy? When was the last one?

It's apparent that a basic understanding of biology is the problem you're encountering.

"Chance" will certainly play a part in biological evolution, but you're not understanding the fundamental role of natural selection. Natural selection as a function of environment is the very opposite of chance. "Random chance", in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the building block that natural selection acts upon. Beginning there, natural selection assembles and sorts out certain variations. Those genetic variations which provide greater reproductive success to the organisms possessing those advantageous mutations are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. Biology ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable. Environment changes and when organisms are subject to environmental isolation clearly show adaptation, as different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Mutations that are harmful to the process of adaptation usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating.

Why did your gods make DNA susceptible to damage from sunlight, (UV radiation)? That seems like incompetent design and planning. Shirley, there must be something in the Bible that addresses DNA structure.

I know that's what they taught you in High School and you never thought to question these assumptions.

The "Natural selection" mechanism completely falls apart in assembling the first cell. There is no conceivable way to "evolve" from a half formed cell or from half a DNA strand; it's a binary all-or-none proposition.

Also, if these random mutation are actually how species "evolve" why don't alligators have opposable thumbs? How is is that humans are the only species to "evolve" at light speed while so many other species are virtually unchanged over hundreds of million of years?

Finally, you keep mocking G-d and the Bible as if that's supposed to hurt my feelings or something and it only serves to make you look bad.

 

[abu afak]

I know that's what they taught you in High School and you never thought to question these assumptions.

Alot more than you were taught in home school Jeremiah.

You've ben defeated on every point, both with sources/links and without.

Only proving the necessary Obstinacy that religionist have/OP.

Why don't all you religionists/godists get together, decide whose got the best myth, then come back and debate Atheists.
As it stands now, it's pretty funny.

`

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

not random? That's what we've been telling you

You have not been telling me selection is not random. I had to correct your error on that at least twice. I think you might be losing your attachment to reality, Francis.

 

[Hollie]

So each DNA glitches? Really?

Yup.
That's a basic.
EACH one doesn't have to 'glitch' every generation and few do obviously but...
No mutation/glitches/error, no Evo.
That's why we have such variety among humans, and many morphed and failed ancestors.
With no errors/mutations, we'd all still look like Adam and Eve. (Or whatever BS you believe)

And I might add your Complexity/Incredulity fallacies have been answered many times, (incl my last) yet you Dishonestly/Idiotically/Obnoxiously just REPEAT because you have/Choose NO answer to save your god. (one of thousands)
`

You're not understanding the math is not my problem.

Can you please expand on your glitch analogy? When was the last one?

It's apparent that a basic understanding of biology is the problem you're encountering.

"Chance" will certainly play a part in biological evolution, but you're not understanding the fundamental role of natural selection. Natural selection as a function of environment is the very opposite of chance. "Random chance", in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the building block that natural selection acts upon. Beginning there, natural selection assembles and sorts out certain variations. Those genetic variations which provide greater reproductive success to the organisms possessing those advantageous mutations are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. Biology ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable. Environment changes and when organisms are subject to environmental isolation clearly show adaptation, as different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Mutations that are harmful to the process of adaptation usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating.

Why did your gods make DNA susceptible to damage from sunlight, (UV radiation)? That seems like incompetent design and planning. Shirley, there must be something in the Bible that addresses DNA structure.

I know that's what they taught you in High School and you never thought to question these assumptions.

The "Natural selection" mechanism completely falls apart in assembling the first cell. There is no conceivable way to "evolve" from a half formed cell or from half a DNA strand; it's a binary all-or-none proposition.

Also, if these random mutation are actually how species "evolve" why don't alligators have opposable thumbs? How is is that humans are the only species to "evolve" at light speed while so many other species are virtually unchanged over hundreds of million of years?

Finally, you keep mocking G-d and the Bible as if that's supposed to hurt my feelings or something and it only serves to make you look bad.

Odd that you would claim “Natural selection" mechanism completely falls apart in assembling the first cell. As noted previously, your lack of a science vocabulary is the issue. Natural selection is the process that acts of existing biological organisms. The first viable cell would be subject to natural selection after life began.

You’re not expressing a coherent argument when writing about “...no conceivable way to "evolve" from a half formed cell or from half a DNA strand”.

Your comment about alligators is another indication that you flunked out of 8th grade biology. Biological evolution is a branching tree, not a straight line from "good to bad". A population of organisms may evolve over time together or may split, with each of its subpopulations evolving in different "directions." This is apparent with the flu virus that morphs from year to year.

Evolution results in corresponding physical traits evolving in the direction of greater fitness. Since these traits already have genes coding for them, they are not acquired. They are therefore completely inheritable. Genetic variation is constantly being added to by random point mutations on the DNA molecule. Some of this new variation makes the animals slightly less fit, some makes it slightly more fit, and most makes no difference whatsoever.

Why did the gods make humans and animals with vestigial organs? Those gods, they’re such kidders.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I know that's what they taught you in High School and you never thought to question these assumptions.

Alot more than you were taught in home school Jeremiah.

You've ben defeated on every point, both with sources/links and without.

Only proving the necessary Obstinacy that religionist have/OP.

Why don't all you religionists/godists get together, decide whose got the best myth, then come back and debate Atheists.
As it stands now, it's pretty funny.

`

Around and around, the math fails your theory so you reject the math, then claim I'm the frothing fundamentalist bitterly clinging to my ideology.

 

[abu afak]

Around and around, the math fails your theory so you reject the math, then claim I'm the frothing fundamentalist bitterly clinging to my ideology.

You lost the Math several times.
So you are stupid a well as Dishonest.
You do NOT know the math because you do not know the amount of chances had to overcome any [exaggerated] odds.
Your "math' is also perverse as was explained to you in detail.

You did NOT/Could NOT answer my refutation of your 'math' on pages 12-15 and 20. (and more)
IAC...
Who the **** would trust deluded Trailer Park Trash like you with math?

BTW your repeated posts/intentionally annoying idiotic 'incredulity' Trolls are promoting MY thread/My title.
Be glad to humor you for a few hundred pages.
Who's good at math?

`