Slavery reparations?

[Toddsterpatriot]

If you are mocking instead of debating that explains why you havent come with anything solid. You should try harder debating the points instead of mocking them. Mocking them only tells me the facts are incontrovertible. You have to have something better to offer if you want me to waste time giving you numbers. Get with the program or you will be ignored.

Yes, still mocking your premise.

If you ever come up with your numbers, I'll be happy to debate them.

You first have to debate and or agree with the merits. I've already instructed you on how this will go.

Sorry, your premise has no merit.

 

[Asclepias]

Yes, still mocking your premise.

If you ever come up with your numbers, I'll be happy to debate them.

You first have to debate and or agree with the merits. I've already instructed you on how this will go.

Sorry, your premise has no merit.

Then go kick rocks unless you have something more than that sad unproven statement.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You first have to debate and or agree with the merits. I've already instructed you on how this will go.

Sorry, your premise has no merit.

Then go kick rocks unless you have something more than that sad unproven statement.

Keep holding your breath.

 

[Asclepias]

Sorry, your premise has no merit.

Then go kick rocks unless you have something more than that sad unproven statement.

Keep holding your breath.

I never held my breath. I never expected anything of substance from you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Then go kick rocks unless you have something more than that sad unproven statement.

Keep holding your breath.

I never held my breath. I never expected anything of substance from you.

And your failure to produce numbers shows your lack of substance.

 

[Asclepias]

Keep holding your breath.

I never held my breath. I never expected anything of substance from you.

And your failure to produce numbers shows your lack of substance.

Your failure to debate and or agree with the merits of reparations is the cause of my failure to produce the numbers. You are a failure in this debate. Kick rocks.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I never held my breath. I never expected anything of substance from you.

And your failure to produce numbers shows your lack of substance.

Your failure to debate and or agree with the merits of reparations is the cause of my failure to produce the numbers. You are a failure in this debate. Kick rocks.

Your case for reparations lacks merit. Thanks for playing.

 

[Chaussette]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

But they can. Just because you say they cant doesnt make it true. Holocaust survivors had to prove they were damaged just like anyone else would. Black people would have to prove they were descended from people that were enslaved. Same thing.

Asc, you're actually better off because of slavery, because without it, you'd be in Africa begging for food with flies drinking from your eyes, nose and mouth. So how have you been wronged? Please make sense.

 

[DriftingSand]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

Good post.

I'm totally opposed to slavery in any form but I've read that many of the slaves of that era (pre-Civil War) were treated well. It could very well be that, in some cases, they were better off living and working on a plantation than they would have been if they were out fending for themselves without a place to live; food; clothing, and other necessities.

My point is that not all the slaves during that era would be owed "damages" considering the fact that they were actually better off on a plantation than they would have been had they remained in Africa being hunted down and killed by neighboring tribes or starving to death in the unincorporated landscape of the American wilderness.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Asclepias]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

Good post.

I'm totally opposed to slavery in any form but I've read that many of the slaves of that era (pre-Civil War) were treated well. It could very well be that, in some cases, they were better off living and working on a plantation than they would have been if they were out fending for themselves without a place to live; food; clothing, and other necessities.

My point is that not all the slaves during that era would be owed "damages" considering the fact that they were actually better off on a plantation than they would have been had they remained in Africa being hunted down and killed by neighboring tribes or starving to death in the unincorporated landscape of the American wilderness.

Just some food for thought.

You may have missed it but the old "we were better off as slaves" theory has been debunked. You do realize that was one of the rationals for slavery in the first place? How can you possibly be better off being raped, beaten, castrated, branded, and treated like cattle than being free? You don't determine what someone believes is better. That is the problem with white people. They automatically and erroneously assume they know whats better. What would you pick a life of slavery or a life of freedom?

There were black people were here in the Americas long before Europeans got here and they had no problem living in the wilderness. People coming from Africa would have no problem adapting to life here in the Americas. If we survived in Africa all those thousands of years why would the americas be any different? What factors would prohibit this survival?

 

[Foxfyre]

I feel my IQ drop just reading some of this thread. Nobody has even hinted that the slaves themselves were better off-or that there was ever any virtue of any kind in slavery. But leave it to the intellectually dishonest to try to make that argument.

The fact is that given the state of abject poverty, chronic poor health, and/or brutal warlords and/or the lack of freedoms, opportunity, choices, and options that exists in much of sub Sahara Africa now, the vast majority of American black people who did descend from American slaves are far better off because somebody dragged their ancesters over here.

Slavery was an abomination. There's no argument, based on morality, that can justify slavery and its attendant evils. Indeed, were it possible, slave traders and slave owners should be forced to make reparations to those whom they enslaved. A similar case cannot be made for reparation payments to slave descendants.--Walter Williams

Williams goes on to make his argument here:
Walter Williams

 

[Asclepias]

I feel my IQ drop just reading some of this thread. Nobody has even hinted that the slaves themselves were better off-or that there was ever any virtue of any kind in slavery. But leave it to the intellectually dishonest to try to make that argument.

The fact is that given the state of abject poverty, chronic poor health, and/or brutal warlords and/or the lack of freedoms, opportunity, choices, and options that exists in much of sub Sahara Africa now, the vast majority of American black people who did descend from American slaves are far better off because somebody dragged their ancesters over here.

Slavery was an abomination. There's no argument, based on morality, that can justify slavery and its attendant evils. Indeed, were it possible, slave traders and slave owners should be forced to make reparations to those whom they enslaved. A similar case cannot be made for reparation payments to slave descendants.--Walter Williams

Williams goes on to make his argument here:
Walter Williams

You must have missed the post I just quoted above you. That very post said Black people were better off as slaves due to conditions in Africa. How did you miss that? The problem I have with that is history and reality shows us the real truth. If there was no slave trade Africa would have never been colonized by Europeans. The continent would have never been divided up ignoring traditional boundaries already set by African nations. West Africa, which is where most Black people in the US come from, was the site where some of the greatest civilizations in the world existed. Your claim that the descendants of slaves are better off being here in the US is laughable. There are plenty of Black Americans living in West Africa today and they love it.

 

[Foxfyre]

I feel my IQ drop just reading some of this thread. Nobody has even hinted that the slaves themselves were better off-or that there was ever any virtue of any kind in slavery. But leave it to the intellectually dishonest to try to make that argument.

The fact is that given the state of abject poverty, chronic poor health, and/or brutal warlords and/or the lack of freedoms, opportunity, choices, and options that exists in much of sub Sahara Africa now, the vast majority of American black people who did descend from American slaves are far better off because somebody dragged their ancesters over here.

Slavery was an abomination. There's no argument, based on morality, that can justify slavery and its attendant evils. Indeed, were it possible, slave traders and slave owners should be forced to make reparations to those whom they enslaved. A similar case cannot be made for reparation payments to slave descendants.--Walter Williams

Williams goes on to make his argument here:
Walter Williams

You must have missed the post I just quoted above you. That very post said Black people were better off as slaves due to conditions in Africa. How did you miss that? The problem I have with that is history and reality shows us the real truth. If there was no slave trade Africa would have never been colonized by Europeans. The continent would have never been divided up ignoring traditional boundaries already set by African nations. West Africa, which is where most Black people in the US come from, was the site where some of the greatest civilizations in the world existed. Your claim that the descendants of slaves are better off being here in the US is laughable. There are plenty of Black Americans living in West Africa today and they love it.

He didn't say all slaves. He said 'it is possible' that some who were treated well--and the record shows that some were treated wel--could have been better off even as slaves that they were in their former situations. And while I would not personally make such an argument because there is absolutely no way to know, one can at least consider the logic of it. To characterize his comment as referring to all slaves is dishonest.

And to say that all slaves were treated miserably is also dishonest. Have you read the slave narratives?

One example: Charity Anderson interviewed in 1937:

She said "Missy, peoples don't live now, and ******* ain't got no manners, and don't know nothin' about waitin' on white folks. I kin remember de days when I was one of de house servants. Dere was six of us in de ol' marster's house, me, Sarai, Lou, Hester, Jerry and Joe. Us didn't know nothin' but good times den. My job was lookin' a'ter de corner table whar nothin' but de desserts sat. Jo and Jerry were de table boys, and dey ne'ber touched nothin' wid dere hans', dey used de waiter to pass things wid. My! dem was good ol' days.

"My old Marster was a good man, he treated all his slaves kind, and took care of dem, he wanted to leave dem hisn chillun. It sho' was hard for us older uns to keep de little cullered chillun out ob de dinin' room whar ol marster ate, cause when dey would slip in and stan' by his cheer, when he finished eatin' he would fix a plate and gib dem and dey would set on de hearth and eat. But honey chile, all white folks warn 't good to dere slaves, cause I'se seen pore ******* almos' tore up by dogs, and whipped unmercifully, when dey did'nt do lack de white folks say . But thank God I had good white folks, dey sho' did trus' me to, I had charge of all de keys in the house and I waited on de Missy and de chillun. I laid out all dey clos' on
Charity Anderson

 

[Asclepias]

I feel my IQ drop just reading some of this thread. Nobody has even hinted that the slaves themselves were better off-or that there was ever any virtue of any kind in slavery. But leave it to the intellectually dishonest to try to make that argument.

The fact is that given the state of abject poverty, chronic poor health, and/or brutal warlords and/or the lack of freedoms, opportunity, choices, and options that exists in much of sub Sahara Africa now, the vast majority of American black people who did descend from American slaves are far better off because somebody dragged their ancesters over here.



Williams goes on to make his argument here:
Walter Williams

You must have missed the post I just quoted above you. That very post said Black people were better off as slaves due to conditions in Africa. How did you miss that? The problem I have with that is history and reality shows us the real truth. If there was no slave trade Africa would have never been colonized by Europeans. The continent would have never been divided up ignoring traditional boundaries already set by African nations. West Africa, which is where most Black people in the US come from, was the site where some of the greatest civilizations in the world existed. Your claim that the descendants of slaves are better off being here in the US is laughable. There are plenty of Black Americans living in West Africa today and they love it.

He didn't say all slaves. He said 'it is possible' that some who were treated well--and the record shows that some were treated wel--could have been better off even as slaves that they were in their former situations. And while I would not personally make such an argument because there is absolutely no way to know, one can at least consider the logic of it. To characterize his comment as referring to all slaves is dishonest.

And to say that all slaves were treated miserably is also dishonest. Have you read the slave narratives?

One example: Charity Anderson interviewed in 1937:

She said "Missy, peoples don't live now, and ******* ain't got no manners, and don't know nothin' about waitin' on white folks. I kin remember de days when I was one of de house servants. Dere was six of us in de ol' marster's house, me, Sarai, Lou, Hester, Jerry and Joe. Us didn't know nothin' but good times den. My job was lookin' a'ter de corner table whar nothin' but de desserts sat. Jo and Jerry were de table boys, and dey ne'ber touched nothin' wid dere hans', dey used de waiter to pass things wid. My! dem was good ol' days.

"My old Marster was a good man, he treated all his slaves kind, and took care of dem, he wanted to leave dem hisn chillun. It sho' was hard for us older uns to keep de little cullered chillun out ob de dinin' room whar ol marster ate, cause when dey would slip in and stan' by his cheer, when he finished eatin' he would fix a plate and gib dem and dey would set on de hearth and eat. But honey chile, all white folks warn 't good to dere slaves, cause I'se seen pore ******* almos' tore up by dogs, and whipped unmercifully, when dey did'nt do lack de white folks say . But thank God I had good white folks, dey sho' did trus' me to, I had charge of all de keys in the house and I waited on de Missy and de chillun. I laid out all dey clos' on
Charity Anderson

Somewhere along the line you are missing a very important point. A gilded cage is still a cage. The facts are that most slaves did not even have a gilded one. In no way shape or form is a well fed slave better off than a free Black person. If you believe the opposite or even try to rationalize it then you have issues with reality.

 

[Chaussette]

You must have missed the post I just quoted above you. That very post said Black people were better off as slaves due to conditions in Africa. How did you miss that? The problem I have with that is history and reality shows us the real truth. If there was no slave trade Africa would have never been colonized by Europeans. The continent would have never been divided up ignoring traditional boundaries already set by African nations. West Africa, which is where most Black people in the US come from, was the site where some of the greatest civilizations in the world existed. Your claim that the descendants of slaves are better off being here in the US is laughable. There are plenty of Black Americans living in West Africa today and they love it.

He didn't say all slaves. He said 'it is possible' that some who were treated well--and the record shows that some were treated wel--could have been better off even as slaves that they were in their former situations. And while I would not personally make such an argument because there is absolutely no way to know, one can at least consider the logic of it. To characterize his comment as referring to all slaves is dishonest.

And to say that all slaves were treated miserably is also dishonest. Have you read the slave narratives?

One example: Charity Anderson interviewed in 1937:

She said "Missy, peoples don't live now, and ******* ain't got no manners, and don't know nothin' about waitin' on white folks. I kin remember de days when I was one of de house servants. Dere was six of us in de ol' marster's house, me, Sarai, Lou, Hester, Jerry and Joe. Us didn't know nothin' but good times den. My job was lookin' a'ter de corner table whar nothin' but de desserts sat. Jo and Jerry were de table boys, and dey ne'ber touched nothin' wid dere hans', dey used de waiter to pass things wid. My! dem was good ol' days.

"My old Marster was a good man, he treated all his slaves kind, and took care of dem, he wanted to leave dem hisn chillun. It sho' was hard for us older uns to keep de little cullered chillun out ob de dinin' room whar ol marster ate, cause when dey would slip in and stan' by his cheer, when he finished eatin' he would fix a plate and gib dem and dey would set on de hearth and eat. But honey chile, all white folks warn 't good to dere slaves, cause I'se seen pore ******* almos' tore up by dogs, and whipped unmercifully, when dey did'nt do lack de white folks say . But thank God I had good white folks, dey sho' did trus' me to, I had charge of all de keys in the house and I waited on de Missy and de chillun. I laid out all dey clos' on
Charity Anderson

Somewhere along the line you are missing a very important point. A gilded cage is still a cage. The facts are that most slaves did not even have a gilded one. In no way shape or form is a well fed slave better off than a free Black person. If you believe the opposite or even try to rationalize it then you have issues with reality.

You're the one missing the point. You're BETTER OFF because of slavery, we even let you whine all year about money you'll never see!

 

[Foxfyre]

You must have missed the post I just quoted above you. That very post said Black people were better off as slaves due to conditions in Africa. How did you miss that? The problem I have with that is history and reality shows us the real truth. If there was no slave trade Africa would have never been colonized by Europeans. The continent would have never been divided up ignoring traditional boundaries already set by African nations. West Africa, which is where most Black people in the US come from, was the site where some of the greatest civilizations in the world existed. Your claim that the descendants of slaves are better off being here in the US is laughable. There are plenty of Black Americans living in West Africa today and they love it.

He didn't say all slaves. He said 'it is possible' that some who were treated well--and the record shows that some were treated wel--could have been better off even as slaves that they were in their former situations. And while I would not personally make such an argument because there is absolutely no way to know, one can at least consider the logic of it. To characterize his comment as referring to all slaves is dishonest.

And to say that all slaves were treated miserably is also dishonest. Have you read the slave narratives?

One example: Charity Anderson interviewed in 1937:

She said "Missy, peoples don't live now, and ******* ain't got no manners, and don't know nothin' about waitin' on white folks. I kin remember de days when I was one of de house servants. Dere was six of us in de ol' marster's house, me, Sarai, Lou, Hester, Jerry and Joe. Us didn't know nothin' but good times den. My job was lookin' a'ter de corner table whar nothin' but de desserts sat. Jo and Jerry were de table boys, and dey ne'ber touched nothin' wid dere hans', dey used de waiter to pass things wid. My! dem was good ol' days.

"My old Marster was a good man, he treated all his slaves kind, and took care of dem, he wanted to leave dem hisn chillun. It sho' was hard for us older uns to keep de little cullered chillun out ob de dinin' room whar ol marster ate, cause when dey would slip in and stan' by his cheer, when he finished eatin' he would fix a plate and gib dem and dey would set on de hearth and eat. But honey chile, all white folks warn 't good to dere slaves, cause I'se seen pore ******* almos' tore up by dogs, and whipped unmercifully, when dey did'nt do lack de white folks say . But thank God I had good white folks, dey sho' did trus' me to, I had charge of all de keys in the house and I waited on de Missy and de chillun. I laid out all dey clos' on
Charity Anderson

Somewhere along the line you are missing a very important point. A gilded cage is still a cage. The facts are that most slaves did not even have a gilded one. In no way shape or form is a well fed slave better off than a free Black person. If you believe the opposite or even try to rationalize it then you have issues with reality.

No, you are missing the point that what happened to your ancesters up to roughly 150 years ago does not affect you any more than what happened to my ancesters up to roughly 150 years ago affects me. If my ancesters were beaten, hung, murdered, killed in war, cheated, died in horrible ways, or lived lives of comfort and luxury or whatever, I am still in charge of my own choices now and taking advantage of whatever opportunities I have now.

The fact that women didn't always have as much opportunity as men has nothing to do with me now. That black people have been mistreated in the past and did not have as much opportunity as white people has nothing to do with you now. Society has expended much blood and treasure correcting those past sins.

You can continue to be sucked into the opportunistic victim mode promoted by modern day racists both black and white, or you can choose to avail yourself of the blessings given you by all those who gave their blood and treasure so that you could have them.

 

[CMike]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

But they can. Just because you say they cant doesnt make it true. Holocaust survivors had to prove they were damaged just like anyone else would. Black people would have to prove they were descended from people that were enslaved. Same thing.

Not at all. Holocaust survivors who are still alive that had damages can prove damages can get compensation from Germy, as they should.

Descendents of those whom have damages have no valid claims.

 

[DriftingSand]

You may have missed it but the old "we were better off as slaves" theory has been debunked. You do realize that was one of the rationals for slavery in the first place? How can you possibly be better off being raped, beaten, castrated, branded, and treated like cattle than being free? You don't determine what someone believes is better. That is the problem with white people. They automatically and erroneously assume they know whats better. What would you pick a life of slavery or a life of freedom?

You may want to re-read my post. I didn't say that all slaves were better off or even that most were better off. I said that "in some cases" some "may" have been better off considering some of the alternatives. I can certainly say that I would personally prefer to live as a slave on a plantation than having my head chopped off by a neighboring tribe who might see me as tonight's dinner.

By the way ... do the African tribes that captured and sold their African brothers owe you reparations?

There were black people were here in the Americas long before Europeans got here and they had no problem living in the wilderness. People coming from Africa would have no problem adapting to life here in the Americas. If we survived in Africa all those thousands of years why would the americas be any different? What factors would prohibit this survival?

Native Indians lived here before the majority of Europeans landed here but I've never heard of any African tribes living on the mainland of the USA. Did you just make that up or do you have some sort of historical documentation?

By the way ... the oldest known human fossils to have been found in America belonged to a man of European decent. That's an historical fact:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKoQGebK0jo#t=42"]White Native Americans : Kennewick Man Skeleton (Discovery Channel) - YouTube[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Iq-kC-lJWw"]The First Americans - Part 1 - Kennewick Man - YouTube[/ame]

 

[protectionist]

When holocaust survivors got money from Germany they had to prove actual damages. It certainly doesn't exist for an entire race.

Since there is no one alive that has been a slave in America legally, then no one can show damage because of slavery.

While there are millions of white Americans ALIVE who can show damage because of Affirmative Action discrimination.

 

[protectionist]

Try as you might AA is not reparations for the simple fact that other ethnicities benefit from them. You may have imagined you stomped the fact of white women being the biggest benefactor of AA but then you frequently are delusional in your thinking.

I have to tell you I dont believe a word you say about what you have done because I vividly recall you saying you were a failure due to AA. That tells me you did not educate yourself to a level where AA could not affect you. It is hilarious to think you expect someone to believe you were educated but claim AA took you down.

Guys that talk like me are frightening to you cave apes. This I understand. The fact that a Black teenager can frighten a grown man enough for him to shoot a teenager only speaks to the cowardly nature of cave apes. At least pick on a adult Black man. I think the consequences of taking on a Black man in your age range is just to frightening a prospect so you guys do what you always do. Wimp out instead of competing on an equal level.

This pile of unintelligible idiocy is so wacked out, it's almost impossible to understand. I guess that's what happens to a person's mind when they are steeped in race hatred for all their life. Everything I said in the post you quoted, still stands 100%.

As for all your tough black guy, weak white guy talk, just watch MMA/UFC once in a while, and see all the white guys handing black guys their ass, which is just what they'd do to you right now, if you talked like this to them in person. As for your dumb "cave apes" phrase, you think is so cool, I shot that down long ago with a list of dozens of white people who created the great things of our modern technological world, while blacks were busy throwing spears at monkeys, and trying to catch fish with their bare hands, having never heard of a fishing reel. And don't try to lay that imbecile Egyptian trip on us again either. The only blacks in ancient Egypt were slaves/laborers.
And I never said I was a failure. You (STUPIDLY) said that.

You are beginning to implode. Get yourself together.

No hardly. I'm just fine. All "together".