simple question for the WTC collapse

[Days]

so you are a wordless Rat?

I guess you side with the sheep, then.

 

[Rat in the Hat]

 

[Gamolon]

The structure is designed to hold its own weight + a lot of people (that had already left the tower when it collapsed) + class four hurricane winds.

First, can you tell me the difference between the upper section as a static load and the upper section as a load in motion (downward)? Do you understand the difference between standing on a floor scale and dropping from twelve feet onto that same scale? What would the scale register for weight in each instance?

Second, the upper section and lower section weren't solid blocks. They were structures composed of many components, including CONNECTIONS. As the upper block descended, it tore/sheared through the lower sections as the connections could not withstand the force of the weight dropping on it. That is why you see the experimenter columns peeling away from the building. The upper section was also torn/sheared apart as it descending, but that does not change the weight. Think of gravel. If I drop a pile of gravel on you, it'll crush you flat.

A structure is designed to function as a whole. Engineers cannot design and analyse a structure for every single possible failure permutation. For example. They would not have looked a what would happen to the structure if one core columns on floor 86 failed. Or two columns on floor 86. 23 columns on 86. 23 core columns and 15 perimeter columns. How about 10 core columns on floor 86 and 10 core columns on floor 87? See the point?

Once you fail a component in a structure, the remaining components have to take up that load now.

Since the structural integrity of the lower floors were 100% intact, this idea that the weight of the upper portions of the towers somehow collapsed the lower portions makes absolutely no sense... not to anyone with any understanding of structural failure.

You cannot think of the lower portion as a WHOLE. The increased load that the upper section created when it descended had to pass through each component of the structure to get to the foundations resting on bedrock. The stress created sheared the connections. That's why you see bent or sheared floor truss connections on perimeter and core columns.

I always ask this. How do you expect these floor truss supports circled in red...


...to support this descending upon them?

 

[freedombecki]

Important Message from 9/11 Truth! - YouTube

​

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

the upper tower portion must be there because you say it is there?

one problem with that...

it isn't there.

The upper portion is gone because it magically disappeared?

 

[numan]

So are you on the side of the sheep or on the side of saying something original?

Oh, they are definitely pro Sheeple and never writing anything sensible. They have nothing but mockery on their side.

Probably they are on the side of those who are determined that the Sheeple remain Sheeple.
.

 

[Days]

The structural design of the WTC towers was a vertical truss. As such it retained its structural integrity section by section... literally floor by floor. The vertical columns in the core were thicker at the bottom and thinned as they rose, hence, it didn't matter where you made a break, the bottom portion was designed to hold the static weight of the top portion + a lot of people + the kinetic force of a category four hurricane acting upon the entire structure. Your question simulates a falling structure; but the towers were not bricks or gravel, they were seamless steel I-beam and concrete center columns that rose the whole height of the building. How exactly does that "fall"? It doesn't. You have to perform a core snap to make that fall and the core snaps are only performed by demolition. That's why the upper portion is at an angle at onset of implosion for both towers; the core had to be snapped to create that angle... it was the shape charges on the side of the core columns that kicked the entire upper portion sideways BEFORE it could begin to drop; otherwise, the angle never happens and the top portions fall vertical... as they should every time in a natural implosion without explosives.

 

[freedombecki]

The structural design of the WTC towers was a vertical truss. As such it retained its structural integrity section by section... literally floor by floor. The vertical columns in the core were thicker at the bottom and thinned as they rose, hence, it didn't matter where you made a break, the bottom portion was designed to hold the static weight of the top portion + a lot of people + the kinetic force of a category four hurricane acting upon the entire structure. Your question simulates a falling structure; but the towers were not bricks or gravel, they were seamless steel I-beam and concrete center columns that rose the whole height of the building. How exactly does that "fall"? It doesn't. You have to perform a core snap to make that fall and the core snaps are only performed by demolition. That's why the upper portion is at an angle at onset of implosion for both towers; the core had to be snapped to create that angle... it was the shape charges on the side of the core columns that kicked the entire upper portion sideways BEFORE it could begin to drop; otherwise, the angle never happens and the top portions fall vertical... as they should every time in a natural implosion without explosives.

So you think the monominded murderers and mechanical mavens who masterminded and sent engineers, scientists, and doctors to guide the planes to their doom were too stupid to know exactly where to place those hits in a way that would overburden the system that was not supposed to break down for any reason? Even a vertical house of cards can flatten if you remove the right middle card. The buildings were calculated to go down with attention to where the support of the building would be damaged the most.

They're brainwashed to think life on earth doesn't matter if you are killed or kill, and that if they kill enough infidels, they will get a double reward.

Saddam Hussein had hefty checks sent to each of the 19 homicidal maniac's families for their trouble. The reinforced the desire for local women to send out more of their own to commit atrocities.

They're smart people, Mr. Day. Very smart people.

 

[Days]

Oh yeah, they are smart enough to know that the towers were designed to withstand jets being flown into them. Osama Bin Laden had a civil engineer BS from an American university; he came from a very wealthy family. When he made his strike on the one of the towers in 1993 he pulled off a classical engineering blow to structural integrity; he completely took out one of the corners at the 4th floor basement level. That would normally be enough to bring down atypical hi-rise column design. But like I said, the towers were designed different, they had the strongest design ever built and it shifted loads better than any design ever built. The design was based upon a type of tree in Japan, and the towers actually swayed like trees. Today, all super high rise skyscrapers do that, the world learned that from the WTC design.

But without going into the politics of what happened there (a real can of worms) stop for a moment and realize that this reply from Gomolon is still relying on the weight of the upper portion of the tower to crush the lower floors. My top post is pointing out that the upper portion did no such thing as it was blown to bits while the bottom portion was still half there. The last half of each implosion has only a demolition wave running down those structures, there is no top portion crushing them. Look at the pictures, the top portion is part of that huge explosion of concrete and I-beams being blown out in every direction, that's where the top portion is, there is no weight bearing on the lower portions of the building for the bottom 50 stories of each implosion.

 

[TheOldSchool]

Important Message from 9/11 Truth! - YouTube

​

That video's hilarious. I apologize in advance 'Rat in the Hat' for stealing this link and posting it in every 9/11 conspiracy thread I come across

 

[Days]

it was blown to bits.

"I can't see any top portion of tower doing this herculean crushing of the entire structure below it. That's because the demolition wave began at points of impact and went in both directions; down and up, and since the towers were struck in the upper portions, the tops were blown to pieces by the time the bottoms were still only half blown to pieces. So, there was no upper tower portion left bearing down upon the lower portions of the tower."

 

[eots]

Looks like a giant dust cloud with what must massive structural members being hurled horizontally...how odd

 

[eots]

The structure is designed to hold its own weight + a lot of people (that had already left the tower when it collapsed) + class four hurricane winds.

First, can you tell me the difference between the upper section as a static load and the upper section as a load in motion (downward)? Do you understand the difference between standing on a floor scale and dropping from twelve feet onto that same scale? What would the scale register for weight in each instance?

Second, the upper section and lower section weren't solid blocks. They were structures composed of many components, including CONNECTIONS. As the upper block descended, it tore/sheared through the lower sections as the connections could not withstand the force of the weight dropping on it. That is why you see the experimenter columns peeling away from the building. The upper section was also torn/sheared apart as it descending, but that does not change the weight. Think of gravel. If I drop a pile of gravel on you, it'll crush you flat.

A structure is designed to function as a whole. Engineers cannot design and analyse a structure for every single possible failure permutation. For example. They would not have looked a what would happen to the structure if one core columns on floor 86 failed. Or two columns on floor 86. 23 columns on 86. 23 core columns and 15 perimeter columns. How about 10 core columns on floor 86 and 10 core columns on floor 87? See the point?

Once you fail a component in a structure, the remaining components have to take up that load now.

Since the structural integrity of the lower floors were 100% intact, this idea that the weight of the upper portions of the towers somehow collapsed the lower portions makes absolutely no sense... not to anyone with any understanding of structural failure.

You cannot think of the lower portion as a WHOLE. The increased load that the upper section created when it descended had to pass through each component of the structure to get to the foundations resting on bedrock. The stress created sheared the connections. That's why you see bent or sheared floor truss connections on perimeter and core columns.

I always ask this. How do you expect these floor truss supports circled in red...


...to support this descending upon them?

wouldint a collapse of this nature leave the core intact ..and take longer than secs ?..

 

[eots]

My father was the largest permanent installation window washing manufacturer in the nation. We actually did work for the architect that designed the World Trade Center. My father described the man as an absolute genius in his field. One of the biggest concerns when manufacturing equipment that will hold men's lives is structural failure. As a rigger and installer, I understood breaking strengths for the materials I worked with and things like torque and sheer and how to analyze the forces acting upon my rigging. So, when I listened to the government explanation of how and why the WTC towers collapsed, I had to scratch my head in disbelief. Mostly, the only explanation put forth was the pancake theory... but when it was pointed out that pancaked floors would have left behind the core, the official story went blurry and sort of settled in this idea that the core was somehow pulverized by the weight of the tops bearing down upon them... as if the weight of the tops weren't always bearing down upon them, as if that isn't exactly what the core holds up.

Mostly, it is a taboo subject with the government, mostly they just don't want to talk about it. They put out contracts with NIST for them to work up some kind of explanation, actually paying for it with our taxes. The NIST contractors that won the contracts did their best to toss out real engineering studies that were somehow concluding what the government wanted to hear, without bothering to make any logical sense, but that wasn't the true goal as everyone involved understood it, a cover up doesn't need to make sense it just papers over the crime and walks away. So it was mission accomplished by NIST, and still we have no clear explanation of structural failure, no congruent story that shows exactly what happened, and yes, that's exactly what engineers normally provide.

So, let me ask you... how did those towers collapse?

I get all kinds of whacky answers, like the office fires super heated the steel; and other ridiculous nonsense that has no bearing in the real world, but when it comes right down to it, the bottom line is the government explanation for structural failure relies on the weight of the structure collapsing itself. The structure is designed to hold its own weight + a lot of people (that had already left the tower when it collapsed) + class four hurricane winds. Since the structural integrity of the lower floors were 100% intact, this idea that the weight of the upper portions of the towers somehow collapsed the lower portions makes absolutely no sense... not to anyone with any understanding of structural failure.

But just for the fun of it, let me ask the question anyway. Could you please point out the big heavy object that is crushing the floors below it? Because when I look at pictures of the collapse at their halfway point in their free fall speeds, drop to the pavement below; I can't see any top portion of tower doing this herculean crushing of the entire structure below it. That's because the demolition wave began at points of impact and went in both directions; down and up, and since the towers were struck in the upper portions, the tops were blown to pieces by the time the bottoms were still only half blown to pieces. So, there was no upper tower portion left bearing down upon the lower portions of the tower. Which is why I scratched my head in disbelief at all those explanations that relied on this nonexistent weight to do all this crushing downward against the vertical core. The upper portions would have been pathetically incapable of performing that crushing had they existed to do so. But they didn't exist to do so. They were already gone by the halfway point of the demolition wave in the lower portions.

Okay school children, Could you please point out the big heavy object that is crushing the floors below it?

Because when I look at pictures of the collapse at their halfway point in their free fall speeds

They didn't collapse at free fall speeds.

Could you please point out the big heavy object that is crushing the floors below it?

That would be all the floors above the impact zone.

there was no upper tower portion left bearing down upon the lower portions of the tower

Did it evaporate? Float up? Become magically weightless?

so how many secs did it take for this massive structure to collapse as compared to free fall ?

 

[Days]

If you stop and examine these pictures, try to take in the scale of this explosion. The dust cloud that rose up from these two implosions managed to travel for 125 miles before it completely dissipated. Look at what is being blown outward in every direction; giant chunks of concrete and huge steel I-beams. Think about what is happening there, where are the top portions of the towers? ... they are part of that explosion of giant chunks of concrete and huge steel I-beams and also part of that huge dust cloud trailing off into the sky; that's where they are.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Oh yeah, they are smart enough to know that the towers were designed to withstand jets being flown into them. Osama Bin Laden had a civil engineer BS from an American university; he came from a very wealthy family. When he made his strike on the one of the towers in 1993 he pulled off a classical engineering blow to structural integrity; he completely took out one of the corners at the 4th floor basement level. That would normally be enough to bring down atypical hi-rise column design. But like I said, the towers were designed different, they had the strongest design ever built and it shifted loads better than any design ever built. The design was based upon a type of tree in Japan, and the towers actually swayed like trees. Today, all super high rise skyscrapers do that, the world learned that from the WTC design.

But without going into the politics of what happened there (a real can of worms) stop for a moment and realize that this reply from Gomolon is still relying on the weight of the upper portion of the tower to crush the lower floors. My top post is pointing out that the upper portion did no such thing as it was blown to bits while the bottom portion was still half there. The last half of each implosion has only a demolition wave running down those structures, there is no top portion crushing them. Look at the pictures, the top portion is part of that huge explosion of concrete and I-beams being blown out in every direction, that's where the top portion is, there is no weight bearing on the lower portions of the building for the bottom 50 stories of each implosion.

My top post is pointing out that the upper portion did no such thing as it was blown to bits

Blown to bits? By secret charges?

 

[Days]

You can not see the charges in the pictures, but you can plainly see what they are doing to the structure.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ... do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors. It obviously is there at the onset of demolition, but what happened to it, say 5-6 seconds into the implosion? Where is it at that point in time?

And since you blatantly refuse to answer anything, I'll point it out for you; see that big explosion of tower steel, concrete, and office furnishings being blown outward in every direction? That's where it is, that's where the whole tower ends up... blown to bits. There simply is no tower section bearing down upon the lower towers halfway into their implosions; the demolition waves ripped downward through the bottom floors of the towers and the top floors of the towers were already flying outward with debris from all the other floors.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Physically impossible , there is no way that every floor above 86 was wired to blow. For one thing they were occupied, someone would have noticed the drilling, the wires and the construction.

Further hundreds of investigators from 4 different agencies descended on New York. Explain again how NONE of them detected your explosives, none of them detected construction or explosives. Not one has come forward to explain why they, according to you, lied. It has been 12 years there is no way hundreds were kept silent this long.

The upper floors are obscured by the dust and debris occurring as they crash into the lower floors.

How about the Pentagon and Pennsylvania? Who masterminded this massive coverup? Who conned 19 terrorists into being their patsies and who bribed threatened or otherwise silenced hundreds of investigators for going on 12 years?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You can not see the charges in the pictures, but you can plainly see what they are doing to the structure.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ... do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors. It obviously is there at the onset of demolition, but what happened to it, say 5-6 seconds into the implosion? Where is it at that point in time?

And since you blatantly refuse to answer anything, I'll point it out for you; see that big explosion of tower steel, concrete, and office furnishings being blown outward in every direction? That's where it is, that's where the whole tower ends up... blown to bits. There simply is no tower section bearing down upon the lower towers halfway into their implosions; the demolition waves ripped downward through the bottom floors of the towers and the top floors of the towers were already flying outward with debris from all the other floors.

So, Todd, how about you point out where the top portion of the tower is at the midway point in the demolition wave ...

Right there, continuing to fall and hit lower floors.

do you see anything there at all bearing down upon the lower floors.

Yes. Not magically dematerialized. Tens of thousands of tons of steel and concrete, pancaking the floors below.

And since you blatantly refuse to answer anything, I'll point it out for you; see that big explosion of tower steel, concrete, and office furnishings being blown outward in every direction? That's where it is, that's where the whole tower ends up... blown to bits.

Blown to bits? Did that reduce its mass at all, or did it still weigh tens of thousands of tons?

There simply is no tower section bearing down upon the lower towers halfway into their implosions;

That's simply ridiculous.

 

[eots]

Physically impossible , there is no way that every floor above 86 was wired to blow. For one thing they were occupied, someone would have noticed the drilling, the wires and the construction.

Further hundreds of investigators from 4 different agencies descended on New York. Explain again how NONE of them detected your explosives,

because no real investigation was done and the crime scence was soon spoiled

none of them detected construction or explosives. Not one has come forward to explain why they, according to you, lied. It has been 12 years there is no way hundreds were kept silent this long.

where do you get this number of hundreds ?

The upper floors are obscured by the dust and debris occurring as they crash into the lower floors.

How about the Pentagon and Pennsylvania? Who masterminded this massive coverup? Who conned 19 terrorists into being their patsies and who bribed threatened or otherwise silenced hundreds of investigators for going on 12 years?

all irrelevant to the physics involved in a building collapse