Shutting Down Debate and Criticism

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

"So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

(snip)

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish."

Were you even paying attention during the first years of the current regime?

 

[Mac1958]

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

The "we won, you lost" crap was also practiced by the Democrats in 2008, big time, to be fair. I remember Obama saying something like "you have to sit in back", so both parties are guilty of that. The two sides are SO similar in their behaviors.

It will be interesting to see how Trump gets along with both parties, since he's not a conservative. It does give me some hope that some common ground will be found now and then.

That tweet of his the other day, that flag burners should go to jail, was an example of your point. It made Trump look as bad as the PC Police. Worse, actually, since a President should know better.
.

 

[USNavyVet]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

 

[Correll]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

I think you misunderstand the context of the We Won statements.

I have not seen such statements directed at liberals who are discussing how they will fight to protect their agenda, or something constructive.


I have seen it directed at lefties who are engaged in the same panic mongering and slander that defined the left's behavior during the election.


The point is that their strategy of shouting down and marginalizing people they don't like, not only failed, but cannot at this point prevent Trump and the GOP from being in charge come Jan.

 

[BluesLegend]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

President elect Trump vowed to be the president of all the people, including you. So your voice and opinions will be considered not dismissed out of hand. Now that said be realistic, Trump ran on a platform of campaign promises he's not going to adopt a Hillary position on an issue just because you favor her position over his. But as best as he can he will try to represent all the people.

 

[koshergrl]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

I think you misunderstand the context of the We Won statements.

I have not seen such statements directed at liberals who are discussing how they will fight to protect their agenda, or something constructive.


I have seen it directed at lefties who are engaged in the same panic mongering and slander that defined the left's behavior during the election.


The point is that their strategy of shouting down and marginalizing people they don't like, not only failed, but cannot at this point prevent Trump and the GOP from being in charge come Jan.

But they aren't going to stop doing it now that they've lost. They'll just increase their efforts.

Communism doesn't just go away. It has to be beaten out.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

"So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

(snip)

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish."

Were you even paying attention during the first years of the current regime?

As I acknowledged in the OP.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

The "we won, you lost" crap was also practiced by the Democrats in 2008, big time, to be fair. I remember Obama saying something like "you have to sit in back", so both parties are guilty of that. The two sides are SO similar in their behaviors.

It will be interesting to see how Trump gets along with both parties, since he's not a conservative. It does give me some hope that some common ground will be found now and then.

That tweet of his the other day, that flag burners should go to jail, was an example of your point. It made Trump look as bad as the PC Police. Worse, actually, since a President should know better.
.

As I acknowledged in the OP.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

Sounds like what Republicans were told when Obama took office. We won so shut up. I remember that.

Please read the entire OP.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans.

Links that back up these 2 ridiculous assertions. Neither is true and we all know it.

Republicans instituted a hands off policy toward Obama and gave him free reign until we get this a-hole out of the White House.

 

[Coloradomtnman]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

I think you misunderstand the context of the We Won statements.

I have not seen such statements directed at liberals who are discussing how they will fight to protect their agenda, or something constructive.


I have seen it directed at lefties who are engaged in the same panic mongering and slander that defined the left's behavior during the election.


The point is that their strategy of shouting down and marginalizing people they don't like, not only failed, but cannot at this point prevent Trump and the GOP from being in charge come Jan.

I acknowledged such behavior from the left in the OP. And most of what I've experienced on the board since the election has been the same from conservatives - not all but most.

 

[koshergrl]

I am no longer willing to engage in *debate* with the left because the left doesn't engage in *debate*. They engage in spreading propaganda, lies and fear mongering. They change the subject when the *debate* isn't going their way, and call people racists, and their commentary "hate speech" if it is critical of their own actions or words. They seek to shut down free speech, and only seek *compromise* when they have lost, decisively.

 

[koshergrl]

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans.

Links that back up these 2 ridiculous assertions. Neither is true and we all know it.

Republicans instituted a hands off policy toward Obama and gave him free reign until we get this a-hole out of the White House.

That is exactly what I'm talking about.

Why would anybody want to *debate* with people who spout lies continually?

 

[AnCap'n_Murica]

View attachment 100521

As I acknowledged in the OP.

Yeah. But now that the shoe is on the other foot, everyone has to sing kumbaya and play nice with the haughty curs who showed you the back of the hand at nearly every opportunity? Everybody is supposed to engage in civility and comity with people who themselves can't be bothered to respond in kind?

I don't think so. STFU and get in the back seat. Better still, move to Somalia.

 

[Correll]

It's reality: Trump won, and the GOP kept the House and the Senate. I accept it. The foundation of our republic requires the peaceful transition of valid authority.

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

So, instead of conservatives and Trump supporters engaging with these concerns and criticisms with reason and argument many shut down any debate with "We won. You lost. Sit down and shut up."

Now it may very well be true that some liberals responded similarly to concerns and criticism aimed at the Obama administration in late 2008 into 2009, but if conservatives are supposed to be principled and represent the party of personal responsibility, maturity, and reason then such a rejection of any possibility of supporting conservative policies seems counter to principled conservativism.

I don't include all conservatives in this observation. Notably Boss Paulie martybegan Uncensored2008. and others who have voiced concerns about potential Trump policies and appointees.

Excluding liberals from debate is not only expanding the rifts caused by the political polarization that has occurred over the last 30 years, especially during this scorched-earth campaign but is un-American and childish.

In the long term it fails to win over converts to conservative principles. The GOP didn't win by a landslide, especially Trump and he will face another challenge to his administration in 2020. If his policies are so extreme as to energize the left and push moderates to vote Democrat, he will be a one term POTUS.

In 2009 the GOP vowed to obstruct Obama. The Democrats have made it clear they are willing to work with Trump and the Republicans. Even Trump in his victory speech was magnanimous and accepted victory with equanimity.

Is this unwillingness to debate because conservatives are also doubtful of the very establishment trend in Trump's policy statements and appointments as President-elect that seem contrary to the non-politician outsider who campaigned to shake up the status quo and institute real change in DC?

I think you misunderstand the context of the We Won statements.

I have not seen such statements directed at liberals who are discussing how they will fight to protect their agenda, or something constructive.


I have seen it directed at lefties who are engaged in the same panic mongering and slander that defined the left's behavior during the election.


The point is that their strategy of shouting down and marginalizing people they don't like, not only failed, but cannot at this point prevent Trump and the GOP from being in charge come Jan.

I acknowledged such behavior from the left in the OP. And most of what I've experienced on the board since the election has been the same from conservatives - not all but most.

Start a thread discussing how you think liberals should constructively oppose some specific Trump policy, and start a discussion on what arguments to make against said policy.


Make real arguments, not bullshit like, "It's racist".


See what percentage of cons respond by "we won you lost".

 

[Kosh]

But that doesn't mean the the President-elect has carte blanche to institute policies and apoint government officials as though over half the American electorate doesn't exist without raising the concerns and criticisms of those who more skeptically view his future administration.

Where have you been the last eight years?

 

[ThoughtCrimes]

The OP's author strikes truth into the very middle of the political divide, and for the most part so far, gets piled on for not being part of the tribe on the Right and therefore gets the shit from the monkeys of that collective thrown at him for having the temerity of speaking logically with reason. So fucking typical and Pavlovian!

 

[Correll]

I am no longer willing to engage in *debate* with the left because the left doesn't engage in *debate*. They engage in spreading propaganda, lies and fear mongering. They change the subject when the *debate* isn't going their way, and call people racists, and their commentary "hate speech" if it is critical of their own actions or words. They seek to shut down free speech, and only seek *compromise* when they have lost, decisively.

 

[whitehall]

The message is clear, "sit down and shut up", at least until the president elect is sworn in. It should be noted that after his election with a majority in the Senate and House Barry Hussein told the Republican party "I won and it's my way or the highway" and Republicans were literally locked out of debates about Obamacare. Revenge is sweet and vindictive little Barry is looking smaller and smaller in comparison to a guy who wants to get things done.