Shrink the Rich; Not Government

[JamesInFlorida]

Taxes=the government's income.

You can't whine when spending is much higher than the income-yet want to cut back on the income. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Lasher]

taxes=the government's income.

You can't whine when spending is much higher than the income-yet want to cut back on the income. It doesn't make sense.

Wrong, what to cut back on is spending.

 

[The T]

Taxes=the government's income.

You can't whine when spending is much higher than the income-yet want to cut back on the income. It doesn't make sense.

And what makes less sense is the way that they legally seize that income...and spend it on frivilous bullshit to change society.

And use the policies to manipulate people.

An affront to liberty dontcha' think?

 

[AVG-JOE]

But government is well on their way toward confiscation through lawful theft aren't they?

Based on the current funneling of resources from the middle class to the wealthy via a complicated and unfair tax code, I'd say the results of the last 30 years bear witness to your statement being absolutely correct 100%

Glad to have you on board with liberal thinkin' there T.

You !

Only The Rich Pay Taxes
Top 50% of Wage Earners Pay 96.03% of Income Taxes

October 10, 2003


<snip for lack of interest>

Notice | The Rush Limbaugh Show® Premiere Radio Networks © All Rights Reserved, 2010.

That's outrageous! Why, there aught to be a LAW!! Something needs to be DONE!!!

Write your congressman today and DEMAND a fair tax code!

Contacting the Congress

After completing your assigned mission of writing to congress about our tax code, please take a moment to participate in the following survey:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/polit...d-and-ask-again-three-times-start-a-poll.html

 

[AVG-JOE]

Does an ex-drill sergeant make a poor therapist?

Maybe not......

Perhaps if he was an EX drill sergeant because of a closet he'd recently exited from.

Why did my post re the ex-drill sergeant make you think of homosexuality?

Duh! Everybody knows queers make good therapists!

You asked me to think of a circumstance where an ex drill sergeant might not be a poor therapist.


Perhaps if she was an EX drill sergeant because of a closet she'd recently exited from?

 

[JamesInFlorida]

Taxes=the government's income.

You can't whine when spending is much higher than the income-yet want to cut back on the income. It doesn't make sense.

And what makes less sense is the way that they legally seize that income...and spend it on frivilous bullshit to change society.

And use the policies to manipulate people.

An affront to liberty dontcha' think?

I actually agree that they currently spend money in bad ways.

However the problem with this tax cut is that it doesn't create jobs-and that should be the government's main concern.

Let's say you run a small business, are these tax cuts going to make you hire more people? No. Because:

1) If your business is hurting you wont hire new employees-because even with the tax cut you can't afford it

2) If your business is doing just fine-there's no need to hire more people

3) The only realistic way you'd create more jobs is if your business is thriving-AND you're looking to greatly expand it, and even if this was the case-chances are you wouldn't need that tax cut money in the first place (and let's face it-I think we can all agree this isn't too common)

 

[georgephillip]

Only way to settle ALL of this discussion is a FLAT or FAIR Tax. Abolishing the IRS and the punative tax code that is used these days as a political weapon in the persuit of buying votes by politicians it was designed for. The Founders never meant for incomes to be taxed. If they had we would have started out that way.

Wealth Envy is not pretty...nor constructive.

The FLAT or FAIR tax could be viable if it also falls on Finance, Insurance and Real Estate, the so called FIRE sector.

As I understand the current versions, a flat or fair tax will fall primarily on wages and not on the income landlords earn in their sleep.

And who cares? This is where you get distracted by the wealth envy again. They still have to buy things to survive do they not?

You really need to get outta this mindset you're in. Seriously.

Don't those who believe all governments have to levy taxes have to care about who is taxed and who is not taxed?

It's only natural the rich would like to shift as much of the tax burden off their shoulders and onto wage labor as they possibly can.

"In diametric opposition to Adam Smith and other putative 'founding fathers' of 'free market' neoliberalism, the super-rich want to shift taxes off 'free lunch' economic rent – off interest, dividends, rents and capital gains – onto wage-earners."

Michael Hudson goes on to point out this shift is not anything new in US politics:

"This tax shift already has been underway for the past thirty years. It has doubled the proportion of the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rents and capital gains) enjoyed by the wealthiest 1 per cent, from a reported one-third in 1979 to an estimated two-thirds of the U.S. total today."

If the richest 1% have relied partially on government tax policy to double their share of returns to wealth over the last 30 years, isn't that something we should all care about?

 

[daveman]

I await with baited breath.

I don't claim to be an expert in economics...or much of anything.

But I do know that when someone says, "...you have 3 and only 3 options...", he's usually wrong.

If you can think of another option I'll kiss your ass on the 50 yard line of any game you buy the tickets for.

You can even phone a friend for help.

There's only one problem with this scenario:

I don't much care. You want to make grand pronouncements, go right ahead. But if you yell "Jump!", don't be surprised when I tell you to eff off.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes, of course he does, by several orders of magnitude. However, the greedy envious are pissed because he refuses to give any of his stuff to them. They want the government to take it away from him and redistribute it.

Now tell us why Buffett and his ilk should not pay at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as their secretaries?

Hint: It has absolutely nothing to do with the percentage of total taxes that ARE being collected.

It has everything to do with taxes owed that are NOT being collected.

If you have evidence that people are illegally avoiding paying their taxes, you should report it.

If, however, you are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn, you should hush.

It is not those illegally avoiding their tax obligation I'm talking about.

It is those who use a fraction of their immense wealth to bribe elected Republicans AND Democrats to craft legal tax policies that shift the burden of taxation from rents, interest and capital gains onto wage labor.

This situation could become far more critical if US debt levels force a currency crisis that results in the dollar losing its reserve currency role.

 

[The T]

The FLAT or FAIR tax could be viable if it also falls on Finance, Insurance and Real Estate, the so called FIRE sector.

As I understand the current versions, a flat or fair tax will fall primarily on wages and not on the income landlords earn in their sleep.

And who cares? This is where you get distracted by the wealth envy again. They still have to buy things to survive do they not?

You really need to get outta this mindset you're in. Seriously.

Don't those who believe all governments have to levy taxes have to care about who is taxed and who is not taxed?

It's only natural the rich would like to shift as much of the tax burden off their shoulders and onto wage labor as they possibly can.

"In diametric opposition to Adam Smith and other putative 'founding fathers' of 'free market' neoliberalism, the super-rich want to shift taxes off 'free lunch' economic rent &#8211; off interest, dividends, rents and capital gains &#8211; onto wage-earners."

Michael Hudson goes on to point out this shift is not anything new in US politics:

"This tax shift already has been underway for the past thirty years. It has doubled the proportion of the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rents and capital gains) enjoyed by the wealthiest 1 per cent, from a reported one-third in 1979 to an estimated two-thirds of the U.S. total today."

If the richest 1% have relied partially on government tax policy to double their share of returns to wealth over the last 30 years, isn't that something we should all care about?

The Founders almost FORBID a direct income TAX...and rather opted for taxing COMMERCE...If they had meant for a direct Income TAX they would have done it right then and there.

WE had to wait for the 16th Amendment when the Statist/Progressives grew a pair and did it.

It's time for it to go away for the damage to the Republic it's doing.

 

[daveman]

Now tell us why Buffett and his ilk should not pay at least the same percentage of their income in taxes as their secretaries?

Hint: It has absolutely nothing to do with the percentage of total taxes that ARE being collected.

It has everything to do with taxes owed that are NOT being collected.

If you have evidence that people are illegally avoiding paying their taxes, you should report it.

If, however, you are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn, you should hush.

It is not those illegally avoiding their tax obligation I'm talking about.

It is those who use a fraction of their immense wealth to bribe elected Republicans AND Democrats to craft legal tax policies that shift the burden of taxation from rents, interest and capital gains onto wage labor.

This situation could become far more critical if US debt levels force a currency crisis that results in the dollar losing its reserve currency role.

As I suspected: You are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn.

 

[georgephillip]

Personally I call it bullshit. The simple numbers tell me that the richest 5% of Americans pay over 60% of the taxes this country collects. You whining about imaginary numbers form a class war blog is a bit like the Democrats knocking Wall Street and writing laws that favor them, and bailing them out when they are in trouble. It actually makes me think you are being paid by the richest 25 to make false claims so they can get a better deal in Congress next year.

If you want anyone with a brain to take you seriously you need to deal with the facts.

- PD GRAPHICS: Interactive graphics, charts and more - cleveland.com

If you prefer to take the rdean route and blather fake numbers at everyone you are certainly free to do so, but the only people you will find that agree with you are the other idiots, and everyone else will just poke at you occasionally because they enjoy watching you repeat the same thing over and over.

Your simple numbers tell you 5% of all Americans pay over 60% of all taxes collected in America.

They say nothing about taxes that are going uncollected.

For example, Warren Buffet famously pays taxes at a rate that's half what his secretary pays.

Which means half of Warren's tax liability is going uncollected every year. This means others have to pay Warren's share OR government has to cut services.

Really?

Show me his tax returns and his secretary's, who probably makes enough every year to be in the same tax bracket he is, or admit all you are doing is pulling statistics out of thin air.

"Warren Buffett, the third richest man in the world (behind Gates and Slim) paid 17.7% tax and made a point of checking and found out his employees paid an average of 32.9%.

God bless Buffett becuase he made this point in a speech that was given to 400 of the 10,000, who were gathered at a Hillary Clinton fund raiser in 2007.

"It got a little attention at the time but then was swept under the rug – as if that didn’t matter.

"But it DOES MATTER and it matters a lot – the life of this country depends on it!

"If this were just a case of 10,000 people not paying $100Bn in taxes, maybe we could move on and forget it but it’s not.

"US corporations, who are (according to to the Supreme Court) also citizens of this country, paid just $300Bn in taxes last year on $6 TRILLION in income (5%).

"That’s right, if US corporations simply paid the same amount of tax as Mr. Buffett – that would, by itself, be enough to wipe out our deficit.

Phil's Stock World

 

[Bern80]

Oh boo-hoo-hoo, the rich don't own everything yet!

Poor them.

They need still more and more and more to make up for their complete lack of humanity.

The rich have not humanity now? Why? Because they figured out how to attain wealth and you didn't? That makes them evil?

What a ******* convenient argument you class warfare types have. The reason ol ed here didn't attain wealth is because h.e is too ******* self righteous. He 'knows' the way wealth is attained can only possibly be done through cheating, backstabbing, exploitation and deceipt. Such a convenient argument even though the TRUTH is ed falls pray to basic human nature. An overwhelming desire to blame everyone else for his lot in life instead of examining the choices HE has made that resulted in where he is.

 

[The T]

Oh boo-hoo-hoo, the rich don't own everything yet!

Poor them.

They need still more and more and more to make up for their complete lack of humanity.

The rich have not humanity now? Why? Because they figured out how to attain wealth and you didn't? That makes them evil?

What a ******* convenient argument you class warfare types have. The reason ol ed here didn't attain wealth is because h.e is too ******* self righteous. He 'knows' the way wealth is attained can only possibly be done through cheating, backstabbing, exploitation and deceipt. Such a convenient argument even though the TRUTH is ed falls pray to basic human nature. An overwhelming desire to blame everyone else for his lot in life instead of examining the choices HE has made that resulted in where he is.

And demands that mommy gubmint make it all better.

 

[georgephillip]

Have you ever considered learning a marketable skill?

Have you ever considered that the Parasitism 101 that you leaned in the government owned and operated school is non productive.

.

What do you call 10,000 people "earning" 30% of total US income yet paying taxes at about half the rate as their secretaries and bodyguards?

And many of these richest 10,000 Americans attended private schools.

You are wrong on those figures and you know it. I call those 10,000 people imaginative, hard-working, industrious, intelligent people whom we should thank for providing jobs for the less intelligent, etc. among us.

What in the world is wrong with attending a private school? Must we all send our children to those cess-pools of violence and ignorance called public schools?

The figures come from Phil's Stock World, and, so far, no one has challenged their accuracy.

Phil's point is that 10,000 Americans earn 30% of total US income every year, yet pay taxes at about a 20% rate compared to 30% to 32% for their helpers.

While some are "imaginative, hard-working,"etc, etc, many of the jobs they create are off shore. In this country small business owners create and destroy two out of every three jobs.

When you factor in government employment and a prison population larger than any other on the planet, any thanks owed to the richest 0.01% of the population for jobs provided pales in comparison to the amount of misery they inflict by not paying taxes at the same rate as their helpers.

Possibly basing the funding for public schools on local property taxes helps explain their serious decay? It has always seemed to me corporate taxes would be useful in funding public education.

 

[The T]

If you have evidence that people are illegally avoiding paying their taxes, you should report it.

If, however, you are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn, you should hush.

It is not those illegally avoiding their tax obligation I'm talking about.

It is those who use a fraction of their immense wealth to bribe elected Republicans AND Democrats to craft legal tax policies that shift the burden of taxation from rents, interest and capital gains onto wage labor.

This situation could become far more critical if US debt levels force a currency crisis that results in the dollar losing its reserve currency role.

As I suspected: You are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn.

NO ONE is owed anything they didn't toil from the sweat of thier brow for. And just being a citizen doesn't cut it.

We are BROKE.

 

[Lasher]

Maybe not......

Perhaps if he was an EX drill sergeant because of a closet he'd recently exited from.

Why did my post re the ex-drill sergeant make you think of homosexuality?

Duh! Everybody knows queers make good therapists!

You asked me to think of a circumstance where an ex drill sergeant might not be a poor therapist.


Perhaps if she was an EX drill sergeant because of a closet she'd recently exited from?

It seems you're more knowledgeable about such things than I.

 

[Lasher]

Taxes=the government's income.

You can't whine when spending is much higher than the income-yet want to cut back on the income. It doesn't make sense.

And what makes less sense is the way that they legally seize that income...and spend it on frivilous bullshit to change society.

And use the policies to manipulate people.

An affront to liberty dontcha' think?

I actually agree that they currently spend money in bad ways.

However the problem with this tax cut is that it doesn't create jobs-and that should be the government's main concern.

Let's say you run a small business, are these tax cuts going to make you hire more people? No. Because:

1) If your business is hurting you wont hire new employees-because even with the tax cut you can't afford it

2) If your business is doing just fine-there's no need to hire more people

3) The only realistic way you'd create more jobs is if your business is thriving-AND you're looking to greatly expand it, and even if this was the case-chances are you wouldn't need that tax cut money in the first place (and let's face it-I think we can all agree this isn't too common)

James, do you have an economics degree?

 

[Lasher]

The FLAT or FAIR tax could be viable if it also falls on Finance, Insurance and Real Estate, the so called FIRE sector.

As I understand the current versions, a flat or fair tax will fall primarily on wages and not on the income landlords earn in their sleep.

And who cares? This is where you get distracted by the wealth envy again. They still have to buy things to survive do they not?

You really need to get outta this mindset you're in. Seriously.

Don't those who believe all governments have to levy taxes have to care about who is taxed and who is not taxed?

It's only natural the rich would like to shift as much of the tax burden off their shoulders and onto wage labor as they possibly can.

"In diametric opposition to Adam Smith and other putative 'founding fathers' of 'free market' neoliberalism, the super-rich want to shift taxes off 'free lunch' economic rent – off interest, dividends, rents and capital gains – onto wage-earners."

Michael Hudson goes on to point out this shift is not anything new in US politics:

"This tax shift already has been underway for the past thirty years. It has doubled the proportion of the returns to wealth (interest, dividends, rents and capital gains) enjoyed by the wealthiest 1 per cent, from a reported one-third in 1979 to an estimated two-thirds of the U.S. total today."

If the richest 1% have relied partially on government tax policy to double their share of returns to wealth over the last 30 years, isn't that something we should all care about?

I wish we had more rich people in our country. That way, we'd have more jobs.

 

[daveman]

It is not those illegally avoiding their tax obligation I'm talking about.

It is those who use a fraction of their immense wealth to bribe elected Republicans AND Democrats to craft legal tax policies that shift the burden of taxation from rents, interest and capital gains onto wage labor.

This situation could become far more critical if US debt levels force a currency crisis that results in the dollar losing its reserve currency role.

As I suspected: You are merely butthurt because you think you're owed something you didn't earn.

NO ONE is owed anything they didn't toil from the sweat of thier brow for. And just being a citizen doesn't cut it.

We are BROKE.

I don't know why leftists can't understand these basic facts.