Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

[Publius1787]

GOOD for her.

Lol
Valor awards for Jessica D. Lynch | Military Times Hall of Valor

Perhaps you were too young to remember, but Jessica Lynch was awarded the Bronz star for nothing other than being a women in combat who curled up in the fetal position as those in her unit who resisted capture were killed. However, the media and the Army wanted a female hero headline so bad that they faked the citation and manufactured a story, effectively losing their credibility in the process.

 

[Againsheila]

but women will never be like men.


Men are stronger!

On average.....I was a Tom Boy growing up and I could beat up the boys my same size, I even beat up the neighborhood bully. I remember feeling sorry for one of the guys I'd just beat up (because he stole my little brothers hot wheels car, you don't mess with my family) and his mom called him in, she'd seen the fight and gave him a scolding for hitting a girl. Guess she didn't notice I was on top of him for most of the fight and came away with my brother's toy car. BTW, I am not now, nor have I ever been a Lesbian.

 

[Antares]

Which has nothing to with he posted......

I don't women in Combat at all but its not my call.

As an Ex MP I detested when I had a female partner, she wasn't equal, and she would never have been able to get me out of a bad situation.

GOOD for her.

Lol
Valor awards for Jessica D. Lynch | Military Times Hall of Valor

Perhaps you were too young to remember, but Jessical Lynch was awarded the Bronz star for nothing other than being a women in combat who curled up in the fetal position as those in her unit who resisted capture were killed.

 

[RandallFlagg]

GOOD for her.

Lol
Valor awards for Jessica D. Lynch | Military Times Hall of Valor

Perhaps you were too young to remember, but Jessica Lynch was awarded the Bronz star for nothing other than being a women in combat who curled up in the fetal position as those in her unit who resisted capture were killed. However, the media and the Army wanted a female hero headline so bad that they faked the citation and manufactured a story, effectively losing their credibility in the process.

Kinda like John Kerry......wouldn't you agree?

 

[Publius1787]

Which has nothing to with he posted......

I don't women in Combat at all but its not my call.

As an Ex MP I detested when I had a female partner, she wasn't equal, and she would never have been able to get me out of a bad situation.

GOOD for her.

Perhaps you were too young to remember, but Jessical Lynch was awarded the Bronz star for nothing other than being a women in combat who curled up in the fetal position as those in her unit who resisted capture were killed.

I will never forget when I saw a female MP attempt to break up a Marine brawl at the e-club at Camp Hansen in Okinawa. She was instentaniously knocked out upon engagement with the belligerents, even after she sprayed them with OC.

 

[Publius1787]

GOOD for her.

Perhaps you were too young to remember, but Jessica Lynch was awarded the Bronz star for nothing other than being a women in combat who curled up in the fetal position as those in her unit who resisted capture were killed. However, the media and the Army wanted a female hero headline so bad that they faked the citation and manufactured a story, effectively losing their credibility in the process.

Kinda like John Kerry......wouldn't you agree?

Sure, many citations have fluff added to them as to guarentee the passage of the award. But how much time di Kerry spend in Vietnam? 4 months? With 4 Purple Hearts? With not one scar on his body? Yeah, he's a fraud.

 

[SFC Ollie]

I think we should require the bad guys to be nicer and build their fortified positions downhill from our forces to make it easier to attack them so our womenfolk can get their promotions.

..and that's pretty much the truth of the matter right there. Combat time = faster promotion.

Not exactly, Combat zone time maybe, but remember all upper level promotions are to an open slot that open slot must be in your MOS... If you are in transportation it might be points in your favor if you drove a truck in a combat zone. (Jessica Lynch) but whether or not you ever had to fire your weapon would be immaterial.......

Remember any MOS that you hold in a combat zone still gets rewarded the combat patch (Army) And still earns you the combat stripes....(Class A Uniform)

 

[SFC Ollie]

Anyone who has ever served in a combat role knows that your only pulling the trigger once in a while. The rest is physical endurance.

Exactly. A man and a woman can both possess equal endurance, even if measured somewhat differently on their physical fitness tests.



They can do it on a 15K, why should we expect it to be different at longer distances? In any event, what does it matter? If you were paying attention, I already said that women should be expected to do the same marches as men. So why are you crying?



Why would I? If you're dumb enough to fondle a woman with whom you're engaged in combatives, than you deserve the death she's going to be inflicting upon you while you were busy copping a feel.



As yes, the typical USMC snob. Oh yeah, you're just SOOOOOOO cool. Enough of you. If you can't respect your fellow brothers and sisters in arms, then get the **** out. Our military does not need prima donnas like you.



Now I know you're full of shit. No, the first thing to do is to return fire and gain fire superiority. Sorry bub, you've run into a combat medic here. I happen to know just a thing or two. You return fire and attempt to gain fire superiority. If the casualty is conscious you try to get him to return fire also and/or tell him to move to cover.

Particularly when there is arterial bleeding, blood pressure can drop immeditaly. But I see you have no experience with that.

Which is why moving a casualty just for the sake of moving him is pointless. Assuming that he's still breathing in the first place, the first thing to do is to stop the bleeding. By the time you've finished moving him, he could have bled out already.

Obviously a combat medic who allows soldiers to bleed to death so as long as he feels threatened by the combat environment. Then again, if the Army was worth it's wight in combat effectiveness then it would be they, and not the Marines, who are given the most dangerous areas of operations. Face it, your country doesent trust your service to take on the most challenging tasks of combat operations and adding women to the mix will only deteriorate Army combat effectiveness even further as they are more likely to serve among the low standards of the Army infantry as opposed the more competent and higher standards of the Marine Corps riflemen. Of course, I do respect the Army; they played a pivotal role in guarding our bases so that we can run legitamet combat operations. Thank you 1st and 2nd ID!

Lets kill the anti-Army BS.........

Different uniforms
Different missions
Same flag.....

 

[Too Tall]

With Respect to Combat Jobs, Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Since the topic of military equality has shot into the mainstream I have a few questions. Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Should they be held to the same physical fitness scale? (Both the physical fitness test and the MOS specific test)
Should they be subject to 20 mile ruck marches?
Should they be required to fight males in martial arts training?
Should they be required to carry male soldiers (gear and all) to safety in combat training?
Should they be required to register for selective service?

If so then I say let em try. If not then we are risking lives for a feminist form of political gain.

The first problem I see is when the government requires a quota system. 1 or 2 women in each combat outfit, and don't think that won't happen. Next is the number of law suits women file who didin't make it because they were (allegedly) discriminated against.

Outside of that, how about an all female SEAL team?

 

[SFC Ollie]

With Respect to Combat Jobs, Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Since the topic of military equality has shot into the mainstream I have a few questions. Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Should they be held to the same physical fitness scale? (Both the physical fitness test and the MOS specific test)
Should they be subject to 20 mile ruck marches?
Should they be required to fight males in martial arts training?
Should they be required to carry male soldiers (gear and all) to safety in combat training?
Should they be required to register for selective service?

If so then I say let em try. If not then we are risking lives for a feminist form of political gain.

The first problem I see is when the government requires a quota system. 1 or 2 women in each combat outfit, and don't think that won't happen. Next is the number of law suits women file who didin['t make it because they were (allegedly) discriminated against.

Outside of that, how about an all female SEAL team?

Only in Hollywood...........

 

[Publius1787]

Exactly. A man and a woman can both possess equal endurance, even if measured somewhat differently on their physical fitness tests.



They can do it on a 15K, why should we expect it to be different at longer distances? In any event, what does it matter? If you were paying attention, I already said that women should be expected to do the same marches as men. So why are you crying?



Why would I? If you're dumb enough to fondle a woman with whom you're engaged in combatives, than you deserve the death she's going to be inflicting upon you while you were busy copping a feel.



As yes, the typical USMC snob. Oh yeah, you're just SOOOOOOO cool. Enough of you. If you can't respect your fellow brothers and sisters in arms, then get the **** out. Our military does not need prima donnas like you.



Now I know you're full of shit. No, the first thing to do is to return fire and gain fire superiority. Sorry bub, you've run into a combat medic here. I happen to know just a thing or two. You return fire and attempt to gain fire superiority. If the casualty is conscious you try to get him to return fire also and/or tell him to move to cover.



Which is why moving a casualty just for the sake of moving him is pointless. Assuming that he's still breathing in the first place, the first thing to do is to stop the bleeding. By the time you've finished moving him, he could have bled out already.

Obviously a combat medic who allows soldiers to bleed to death so as long as he feels threatened by the combat environment. Then again, if the Army was worth it's wight in combat effectiveness then it would be they, and not the Marines, who are given the most dangerous areas of operations. Face it, your country doesent trust your service to take on the most challenging tasks of combat operations and adding women to the mix will only deteriorate Army combat effectiveness even further as they are more likely to serve among the low standards of the Army infantry as opposed the more competent and higher standards of the Marine Corps riflemen. Of course, I do respect the Army; they played a pivotal role in guarding our bases so that we can run legitamet combat operations. Thank you 1st and 2nd ID!

Lets kill the anti-Army BS.........

Different uniforms
Different missions
Same flag.....

Different standards, same mission, different area of operations. The Marines used to have a different mission, however, if they were to be held by their origional mission statement (before amendment) there would be nothing but soldiers taking charge of the most dangerous areas of Iraq and Afghanistan. In reality and in army lingo, that's a no go.

 

[CaféAuLait]

With Respect to Combat Jobs, Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Since the topic of military equality has shot into the mainstream I have a few questions. Should Women be Held to the Same Standards as Men in the Military?

Should they be held to the same physical fitness scale? (Both the physical fitness test and the MOS specific test)
Should they be subject to 20 mile ruck marches?
Should they be required to fight males in martial arts training?
Should they be required to carry male soldiers (gear and all) to safety in combat training?
Should they be required to register for selective service?

If so then I say let em try. If not then we are risking lives for a feminist form of political gain.

Yes, they should be held to the same standards. I am female and I fear for male soldiers. Please let me explain myself before someone jumps on me.

I read an article the other day which was based on a study by the Marines. It stated for women to be in combat there is no way they will be graded on the same scale for physical fitness for combat (not PT tests). It said they could not get a passing score on the physical aspect but instead would be graded for effort. If they put in the effort but did not pass they would still get a passing grade.

When it comes to carrying that 50 pound weapon or the 100 pound weapon for miles and miles in a combat position will she be able to do it? The average cold weather soldier's load is 101.5 pounds without weapon! I totally understand that some mean are unable to do so as well. But my point is when she can’t carry that weapon, or her regular load, who will? Another team mate who will then be taxed with his own job and hers? How is another solder going to take it mentally when his battle buddy is raped and mutilated, will he feel more so at fault since it is a woman and he should have protected her, when in fact her getting captured was because of her lack of strength do to some hand to hand combat? Of course men are raped as well but women will be a target, we know this more so than a man.

I remember this nation and what happened with Jessica Lynch, her repeated rape and capture.

USATODAY.com - Lynch book tells of rape by captors

I can’t imagine reliving that over and over. If a woman wants to go to combat let them, but I hope they or their battle buddies will not expect any less of themselves or the others.

 

[Wicked Jester]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

 

[Bigfoot]

Rush Limbaugh proposes all-women battalions with ‘synchronized menstrual cycles’

I don't care who you are, that's just funny!

Limbaugh proposes battalions with 'synchronized menstrual cycles' [AUDIO] | The Daily Caller

 

[Bigfoot]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

They could do it the way the Russians do...with live fire ~shrug~

 

[CaféAuLait]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

Indeed, I read an article about the 5 Myths of Women in Combat. It stated that it does not take a strong woman to pull a trigger. They are correct it does not, but pulling a trigger is not the only thing required.

 

[Publius1787]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

They could do it the way the Russians do...with live fire ~shrug~

What a great comparison. Because we all know that the Russian army is the model for the world. Slave trade and male prostitution in Russia's Army - YouTube

 

[Bigfoot]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

Indeed, I read an article about the 5 Myths of Women in Combat. It stated that it does not take a strong woman to pull a trigger. They are correct it does not, but pulling a trigger is not the only thing required.

It's funny how the people who haven't been there like to toss that stupid saying around.

 

[blackhawk]

If you want everyone in the military to have equal opportunity to be in a front line combat unit everyone should have to pass the same standards.

 

[CaféAuLait]

If a woman wants to serve in combat fine, the final test should be having to fireman carry a 200+ lb male 100+ yards while under simulated fire.

And of course, adhere to the exact same phyical requiremens for males....Those requirements are there for a reason.....and it has absolutely nothing to do with promotion points.

Indeed, I read an article about the 5 Myths of Women in Combat. It stated that it does not take a strong woman to pull a trigger. They are correct it does not, but pulling a trigger is not the only thing required.

It's funny how the people who haven't been there like to toss that stupid saying around.

Here is a great article by a female Marine:

Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal

I fit the mold of a female who would have had a shot at completing IOC, and I am sure there was a time in my life where I would have volunteered to be an infantryman. I was a star ice hockey player at Bowdoin College, a small elite college in Maine, with a major in government and law. At 5 feet 3 inches I was squatting 200 pounds and benching 145 pounds when I graduated in 2007. I completed Officer Candidates School (OCS) ranked 4 of 52 candidates, graduated 48 of 261 from TBS, and finished second at MOS school. I also repeatedly scored far above average in all female-based physical fitness tests (for example, earning a 292 out of 300 on the Marine physical fitness test). Five years later, I am physically not the woman I once was and my views have greatly changed on the possibility of women having successful long careers while serving in the infantry. I can say from firsthand experience in Iraq and Afghanistan, and not just emotion, that we haven’t even begun to analyze and comprehend the gender-specific medical issues and overall physical toll continuous combat operations will have on females.

The physical strain of enduring combat operations and the stress of being responsible for the lives and well-being of such a young group in an extremely kinetic environment were compounded by lack of sleep, which ultimately took a physical toll on my body that I couldn’t have foreseen.

By the fifth month into the deployment, I had muscle atrophy in my thighs that was causing me to constantly trip and my legs to buckle with the slightest grade change. My agility during firefights and mobility on and off vehicles and perimeter walls was seriously hindering my response time and overall capability. It was evident that stress and muscular deterioration was affecting everyone regardless of gender; however, the rate of my deterioration was noticeably faster than that of male Marines and further compounded by gender-specific medical conditions. At the end of the 7-month deployment, and the construction of 18 PBs later, I had lost 17 pounds and was diagnosed with polycystic ovarian syndrome (which personally resulted in infertility, but is not a genetic trend in my family), which was brought on by the chemical and physical changes endured during deployment

Such was after one 7 month deployment.

Read more:


Get Over It! We Are Not All Created Equal | Marine Corps Gazette

In such she states many truths and how quickly she deterioated next to male troops.