Should Western Ukraine become a NATO protectorate?

[Ringo]

 

[Donald H]

The idea of a Nato protectorate isn't consistent with the rules of the game.

Russia would just react by saying it can be a protectorate but it has no protection and doesn't qualify for the advantages of Nato's article 5.

Then what? Nato goes to war against Russia because of Nato's claim that the UKraine is a protectorate?

Why bother with the idea at all, why not just go to war against Russia.

This is just another nonsense idea that shouldn't even be wasting space here.

Maybe a more worthwhile idea would be Russia nuking Poland? Would America go to war against Russia?

 

[gipper]

Believing that "War is the health of the state" shows that you're a very, very mentally ill person. That's something I'd expect Hitler to have said.

The "State" only exists to serve people. War only serves a very few of the most corrupt people, while ruining and destroying the lives of the vast majority of the people. Any national leader that voluntarily starts a war is an enemy of his own people.

How are majority of Russians being served by this invasion of Ukraine? They are not. Only Putin and his cronies are being served. Putin and his cronies are enemies of the Russian people and should be treated as criminals.

Lol. You don’t understand the meaning.

The STATE is NOT the people. It is the government ie, the people running and controlling the government. Politicians, bureaucrats, deep staters and the oligarchy that controls and owns them.

 

[Donald H]

Great uncovering of the facts, but the key is how America interfered for the purpose of further encroaching on Russia's borders.

Of course Russia wanted peace, but could never be, on account of America's agenda.

 

[Polishprince]

Since Russia is sending a new army into Belarus to threaten Western Ukraine from the North, I think that NATO should declare all of Ukraine west of the Dnieper river to be a NATO protectorate.

The new Russian Army locating in Belarus does not have to be effective as far as combat capabilities nor even try to invade Ukraine, but it will force the Ukrainians to reposition considerable forces back near Kyiv - removing them from the fight in eastern Ukraine.

By declaring western Ukraine as a NATO protectorate, NATO forces could move into western Ukraine and nuetralize any threat from Belarus. Their presence would prevent further terrorist missile & drone attacks against Ukrainian civilian targets. They could control the skies over western Ukraine and shorten the supply & support lines between NATO and Ukrainian forces in eastern Ukraine.

Russia is already depleted. It's doubtful that Russia would atke any action against NATO forces in Ukraine. It would shorten this war.

Actually, Western Ukraine should be ceded to the Republic of Poland. Ukraine stole a large swath of territory from Poland after WW2 and they should return it.

 

[Richard-H]

Lol. You don’t understand the meaning.

The STATE is NOT the people. It is the government ie, the people running and controlling the government. Politicians, bureaucrats, deep staters and the oligarchy that controls and owns them.

I didn't say that the state was the people. I said that the state exists to serve the people.

It's funny that you believe that there is no one in democratic governments that want to serve the people or at least that's the myth that you want to propagate.

Meanwhile, you apparently believe that dictatorships are better for the people - which is just plain idiotic.

In Democratic states, wealthy people do have an inordinate amount of influence on government, but that doesn't mean that they totally control government. Many of those wealthy people want what they believe to be the best for the people of that country. Besides, in a democracy that values economics, what is good for business is good for the country.

Your belief that "War is the health of the state" is nonsense. Economics are the health of the state.

 

[José]

Originally posted by DonaldH
The idea of a Nato protectorate isn't consistent with the rules of the game.

Russia would just react by saying it can be a protectorate but it has no protection and doesn't qualify for the advantages of Nato's article 5.

Then what? Nato goes to war against Russia because of Nato's claim that the UKraine is a protectorate?

The idea of turning the entire region (eastern Europe, not only Ukraine) into a NATO "protectorate" was exactly what started this whole mess in the first place together with the issue of the russian speaking provinces.

Richard-H isn't the only poster to present the cause of this war as a solution to it . Toomuchtime also regurgitates this "solution" from time to time.

"If you find yourself in a hole, keep digging" is their motto.

Originally posted by DonaldH
This is just another nonsense idea that shouldn't even be wasting space here.

Understatement of the century.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why not try diplomacy instead. Find out what they really want and why and see if you can provide it. The end of this scenario is everyone wins.

What you call diplomacy is what Chamberlain tried in 1938. It doesn't work and only emboldens dictators. If the west would have stood up and supported Ukraine when Russia stole Crimea in 2014, none of this would be happening. But since it didn't, Russia stole Ossetia from Georgia and decided it could steal the entire country of Ukraine. What Russia and Putin wants is simple, it wants the Russian Empire back, but no one is willing to cooperate with that.

 

[BothWings]

Russia's

It's probably a little late in the game to think about making Ukraine a NATO protectorate, unless we want to escalate the war to being nuclear. NATO should have thought of that before Russia had so much invested in it.

Investments in Ukraine predate NATO by quite some time. They are responding to an illegal hijacking by western intelligence and military-industrial influence under Obama. That hijacked west-alligned government spent years terrorizing Ukraine before the Russians invaded to put an end to it.

 

[Ringo]

They don't hide it anymore:
CNN: Ukraine has become a laboratory for testing US weapons

And ukrainians, it turns out, are guinea pigs. Or is it more correct - "cannon fodder"?

 

[gipper]

I didn't say that the state was the people. I said that the state exists to serve the people.

It's funny that you believe that there is no one in democratic governments that want to serve the people or at least that's the myth that you want to propagate.

Meanwhile, you apparently believe that dictatorships are better for the people - which is just plain idiotic.

In Democratic states, wealthy people do have an inordinate amount of influence on government, but that doesn't mean that they totally control government. Many of those wealthy people want what they believe to be the best for the people of that country. Besides, in a democracy that values economics, what is good for business is good for the country.

Your belief that "War is the health of the state" is nonsense. Economics are the health of the state.

Lol. The state doesn’t exist to serve the people. Only a dupe would think that. The state exists to serve the corporate class and wealthy.

 

[Richard-H]

Lol. The state doesn’t exist to serve the people. Only a dupe would think that. The state exists to serve the corporate class and wealthy.

The state is supposed to exist to serve the people. In fact, in the U.S. to a very major degree it does serve the people. However, the wealthy do have far too much control over the U.S. government. That's primarily because the republcan party are 100% controlled by and ONLY serve the wealthy. The Democrats are about 50/50. However, the type of wealthy people that control the Republicans only care about themselves and couldn't care less about the rest of the American people. AT least the wealthy people who support the Democrats care somewhat about the common good.

It seems absurd that you would criticize the U.S. Government and a democracy that has mostly worked very well, while you support Putin - a dictator who destroyed democracy in Russia, established himself as a life long dictator, murders his political opponents, murder news reporters and anyone else that speaks out against him.
Putin has ordered an unprovoked invasion of another country, causing million of refugees, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians. All to benefit himself and his cronies. He is the worst national leader since Adolf Hitler.

But I understand the real reason why you criticize the U.S. Government, but not Putin's regime: if you ever criticized Putin, you'd be dead very soon.

 

[gipper]

The state is supposed to exist to serve the people. In fact, in the U.S. to a very major degree it does serve the people. However, the wealthy do have far too much control over the U.S. government. That's primarily because the republcan party are 100% controlled by and ONLY serve the wealthy. The Democrats are about 50/50. However, the type of wealthy people that control the Republicans only care about themselves and couldn't care less about the rest of the American people. AT least the wealthy people who support the Democrats care somewhat about the common good.

It seems absurd that you would criticize the U.S. Government and a democracy that has mostly worked very well, while you support Putin - a dictator who destroyed democracy in Russia, established himself as a life long dictator, murders his political opponents, murder news reporters and anyone else that speaks out against him.
Putin has ordered an unprovoked invasion of another country, causing million of refugees, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians. All to benefit himself and his cronies. He is the worst national leader since Adolf Hitler.

But I understand the real reason why you criticize the U.S. Government, but not Putin's regime: if you ever criticized Putin, you'd be dead very soon.

We can’t go any further. The State clearly does NOT serve the people. This belief is terribly naive and uninformed.

Same old bull shit from you establishment dupes. You and the war criminal W have so much in common. Either you’re with us or against us. DUMB in the extreme.

 

[Ringo]

 

[Richard-H]

We can’t go any further. The State clearly does NOT serve the people. This belief is terribly naive and uninformed.

Same old bull shit from you establishment dupes. You and the war criminal W have so much in common. Either you’re with us or against us. DUMB in the extreme.

It's obvious that you want to promote as much mistrust in the U.S. government as you can, but your gas-lighting won't work.

We know that Democracy is not and never will be perfect. That's the point of Democracy. People will never agree on everything. Nobody will ever get 100% of what they want, but everyone gets some of what they want. It's the best and most successful form of Government there has ever been.

It's a whole lot better than having a dictatorship like Russia has. In dictatorships, a small minority of the people get almost everything they want while the majority is abused.

Do you really think that the majority of Russians wanted to invade Ukraine? DO you really think that there are tens of thousands of Russians that are willing to die trying to conquer Ukraine?

The vast majority of Russians do not want to invade Ukraine and are not willing to die trying to conquer Ukraine. The ones that support the war have been duped by Putin's propaganda machine. Lies promoted because Putin envisions himself as a modern day Czar.

This invasion benefits only Putin and his cronies, yet it's the Russian people that are suffering and dying for it.

 

[gipper]

It's obvious that you want to promote as much mistrust in the U.S. government as you can, but your gas-lighting won't work.

We know that Democracy is not and never will be perfect. That's the point of Democracy. People will never agree on everything. Nobody will ever get 100% of what they want, but everyone gets some of what they want. It's the best and most successful form of Government there has ever been.

It's a whole lot better than having a dictatorship like Russia has. In dictatorships, a small minority of the people get almost everything they want while the majority is abused.

Do you really think that the majority of Russians wanted to invade Ukraine? DO you really think that there are tens of thousands of Russians that are willing to die trying to conquer Ukraine?

The vast majority of Russians do not want to invade Ukraine and are not willing to die trying to conquer Ukraine. The ones that support the war have been duped by Putin's propaganda machine. Lies promoted because Putin envisions himself as a modern day Czar.

This invasion benefits only Putin and his cronies, yet it's the Russian people that are suffering and dying for it.

You are terribly naive. After all the lies and criminality committed by our government, you still support it. Grow up!

 

[Richard-H]

You are terribly naive. After all the lies and criminality committed by our government, you still support it. Grow up!

Name a major government that hasn't committed lies and crimes.

You're a naive child that expects perfection from everyone but yourself.

Grow up!

 

[gipper]

Name a major government that hasn't committed lies and crimes.

You're a naive child that expects perfection from everyone but yourself.

Grow up!

Lol. The old “everybody does it” excuse.

Tell me you’re 12 years old. Because only a child is foolish enough to continue to support something they know is criminal and lies all the time.

 

[Richard-H]

Lol. The old “everybody does it” excuse.

Tell me you’re 12 years old. Because only a child is foolish enough to continue to support something they know is criminal and lies all the time.

So, your idea is that because democracy isn't perfect, you'd prefer a dictator.

That's a whole new level of stupid!

 

[gipper]

So, your idea is that because democracy isn't perfect, you'd prefer a dictator.

That's a whole new level of stupid!

Yeah that’s it. You are a black-and-white kind of doofus child.