Should we vote for the man or his policies?

[toobfreak]

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities.

Presidents as people do not concern me. As people, all presidents have two arms, two legs, walk, laugh and talk. Whether you have one leg or three, are handsome or ugly, good speaker or bad, what matters and differs from one to the other are their policies, goals, priorities, and their ability to lead and get things done.

Does anyone care what Bill Gates looks or acts like? The CEO of Apple? Google? IBM? Should the head of JPL be an attractive woman?

In politics as business, what really counts is their ability to DO A JOB.

 

[Issa]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

Trump represents everything that's ugly about a human being.
Liar, dumb, childish, arrogant, narcissist, stupid, big mouth, bully, show off, opportunist and unqualified.

 

[gipper]

Vote your wallet and pocket book....that's all we have folks.....if we go back to the Obama daze....we will all leave the earth poorer than we are today...plain and simple......

Yeah let our kids pay for all them trump deficits.

Hey Obama drove our debt up even without a global pandemic shutdown....and you defended it....a thriving economy like Trump is famous for will stand a better chance of ridding America of debt than a Biden 12 million dollar tax hike......

Trump has increased Obama deficits every single year. And he did that during a strong economy. Now his failed pandemic response is really gonna be costly.

It’s all a show. The two parties are one, but somehow many Americans can’t see it. Maybe pictures will help...

Which is why an outsider with guts like Trump is so necessary.....the best way to judge a man is via his enemies....and Trumps enemies stink to high heaven with corruption.....

There is no doubt his enemies stink. Unfortunately, he has surrounded himself with enemies. He’s not smart enough to figure this out.

 

[Flopper]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

Trump represents everything that's ugly about a human being.
Liar, dumb, childish, arrogant, narcissist, stupid, big mouth, bully, show off, opportunist and unqualified.

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

 

[BluesLegend]

Look it's not Republicans vs Democrats it's the people and Trump vs the Washington establishment.

 

[BluesLegend]

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

^^^ projection. Do as we say not as we do Democrats who break the very laws they pass lecturing us.

 

[task0778]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

Trump represents everything that's ugly about a human being.
Liar, dumb, childish, arrogant, narcissist, stupid, big mouth, bully, show off, opportunist and unqualified.

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

"The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?"

Which is pretty much the whole point of this thread. What did Trump get done, and at what cost? AND at what value, don't forget that; was whatever he did or didn't do worth the price? Contrast that with what you expect Biden to do, or the Left if he is elected? For instance: the Dems are widely talking about totally ending the filibuster if Biden gets elected and they take the Senate. Not just over the next few years, but also long term. Will we enter into a never-ending battle of parties that get into power and erase what the previous party did, regardless of the benefits or lack thereof for the rest of us? With nothing more than a simple majority? Compromise? Gone. Cooperation? Gone. Bipartisanship? Maybe not totally gone but damn close. The 'tyranny of the majority' it was once called, is that really a good thing? Should we vote for that policy, even though we really don't like Trump?

I realize that he too wanted to get rid of the filibuster so he could get done the stuff he wanted. All presidents do I suppose, but the GOP didn't do it and as far as I can see, won't do it anytime soon. Not so the democrats if they have a dem in the WH and control of the Senate. There's a lot at stake in this election, and IMHO we all should be focused on that rather than any personal animosity towards Trump.

 

[Issa]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

Trump represents everything that's ugly about a human being.
Liar, dumb, childish, arrogant, narcissist, stupid, big mouth, bully, show off, opportunist and unqualified.

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

Exactly.
I grow up overseas and I have huge respect for this country and would fight for it but we always knew that a sizable population of Americans are morally bankrupt and dumb founded. Somehow they put someone that represents them this time around.

 

[Flopper]

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

^^^ projection. Do as we say not as we do Democrats who break the very laws they pass lecturing us.

No president in recent history has overstepped the boundaries of the office like Trump, using the bully pulpit as a means of spreading lies and attacking personal enemies, calling a national emergency to fulfill a campaign promise, and downplaying and lying about the greatest healthcare emergency in a hundred years to further his chances of re-election, intermixing campaigning and the duties of president, purposefully inciting violence, ect, etc.......

 

[Cecilie1200]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

It is the person and not the policies that deal with crises. We've all seen how Trump deals with crisis. He attacks the victims, ignores the problem, and then demands apologies. Zero character, zero honor. That's more than enough reason not to vote for him.

It is the policies that the person will use to deal with crises. We've all seen how both Trump and the left deal with crises. Trump mouths off a little, but his policies are sensible given the information available at the time. The left immediately looks for a way to exploit the situation to their own advantage, even if it means screwing over their own base or burning our entire nation to the ground, both literally and philosophically.

It would require the invention of new technology to measure my indifference to the "zero honor" criticisms of a lying cretin like you who wants to claim some sort of moral high ground on the basis of "Look at all this bullshit that I've believed and you have to now accept."

You want me to vote based on character and honor? Then I'm voting for anyone who YOU aren't supporting.

 

[Cecilie1200]

What you're describing is the typical despot. They can get things done because they don't feel hampered by our laws, the constitution, or common decency. It's sad that so many Americans are willing to follow a person like this. The rallying cry is always the same, "He get's thing done." but at what cost?

^^^ projection. Do as we say not as we do Democrats who break the very laws they pass lecturing us.

No president in recent history has overstepped the boundaries of the office like Trump, using the bully pulpit as a means of spreading lies and attacking personal enemies, calling a national emergency to fulfill a campaign promise, and downplaying and lying about the greatest healthcare emergency in a hundred years to further his chances of re-election, intermixing campaigning and the duties of president, purposefully inciting violence, ect, etc.......

Oh, really? Is Barack "Pen and a phone" Obama a President "in recent history"? Please explain to me, in detail, how Trump has "overstepped the boundaries of the office" worse than Obama did. List for me these "lies" that you all so love to tell us Trump tells. Show me the evidence that Trump "called a national emergency to fulfill a campaign promise". Explain to me exactly what lies Trump told about Covid-19. And understand that if you try to tell me, "He admitted he downplayed it, and that's the same as lying when it's Trump and I want to accuse him", that will be an admission that YOU are lying. Show me exactly how it was Trump who "incited violence", rather than the multitude of leftists who have spent months making excuses for violent actions.

I have had it right up to my ears with every single one of your leftist Borg spieling out the same talking-points list of vague assertions and expecting that it's going to become accepted fact just by sheer repitition. Prove it or admit that your only problem with Trump is that he's President from the wrong party.

And dodging the question or ignoring it WILL be an admission.

 

[Flopper]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

It is the person and not the policies that deal with crises. We've all seen how Trump deals with crisis. He attacks the victims, ignores the problem, and then demands apologies. Zero character, zero honor. That's more than enough reason not to vote for him.

It is the policies that the person will use to deal with crises. We've all seen how both Trump and the left deal with crises. Trump mouths off a little, but his policies are sensible given the information available at the time. The left immediately looks for a way to exploit the situation to their own advantage, even if it means screwing over their own base or burning our entire nation to the ground, both literally and philosophically.

It would require the invention of new technology to measure my indifference to the "zero honor" criticisms of a lying cretin like you who wants to claim some sort of moral high ground on the basis of "Look at all this bullshit that I've believed and you have to now accept."

You want me to vote based on character and honor? Then I'm voting for anyone who YOU aren't supporting.

Presidential Policy is determined by what a president says and does. If begins with campaign promises before his election, executive orders, directives both written and verbal, and the president's opinion on various issues. So when the president makes statements on Twitter, in speeches, and press conferences, this all becomes part his policy and part the historical record. When statements on twitter contradict previous statements, are without factual basis, or just made for effect they do cause problems. In fact most of Trump's problems are do to his inability to clearly communicate his ideas while remaining factual and consistent.

 

[eddiew37]

The policy that gave us this ?? Trump is one dumb SOB
Japan has 12 covid deaths per 1 million population; South Korea has 8 deaths per mil; Taiwan has 0.3 deaths... The US now has 626...!<(!

I picked those 3 to compare because they have a knowledgeable population and advanced systems of health care monitoring and sound systems of government - I did not, for instance, use Uganda as a comparative…

 

[task0778]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

It is the person and not the policies that deal with crises. We've all seen how Trump deals with crisis. He attacks the victims, ignores the problem, and then demands apologies. Zero character, zero honor. That's more than enough reason not to vote for him.

It is the policies that the person will use to deal with crises. We've all seen how both Trump and the left deal with crises. Trump mouths off a little, but his policies are sensible given the information available at the time. The left immediately looks for a way to exploit the situation to their own advantage, even if it means screwing over their own base or burning our entire nation to the ground, both literally and philosophically.

It would require the invention of new technology to measure my indifference to the "zero honor" criticisms of a lying cretin like you who wants to claim some sort of moral high ground on the basis of "Look at all this bullshit that I've believed and you have to now accept."

You want me to vote based on character and honor? Then I'm voting for anyone who YOU aren't supporting.

Presidential Policy is determined by what a president says and does. If begins with campaign promises before his election, executive orders, directives both written and verbal, and the president's opinion on various issues. So when the president makes statements on Twitter, in speeches, and press conferences, this all becomes part his policy and part the historical record. When statements on twitter contradict previous statements, are without factual basis, or just made for effect they do cause problems. In fact most of Trump's problems are do to his inability to clearly communicate his ideas while remaining factual and consistent.

" In fact most of Trump's problems are do to his inability to clearly communicate his ideas while remaining factual and consistent. "

And you think Biden is any better? Even when communicated clearly, do you approve of Biden's stated policies, relative to Trump's? Or has your TDS completely overridden your critical thinking?

 

[Likkmee]

The policy that gave us this ?? Trump is one dumb SOB
Japan has 12 covid deaths per 1 million population; South Korea has 8 deaths per mil; Taiwan has 0.3 deaths... The US now has 626...!<(!

I picked those 3 to compare because they have a knowledgeable population and advanced systems of health care monitoring and sound systems of government - I did not, for instance, use Uganda as a comparative…

Use Uruguay instead ;-)

 

[Flopper]

The policy that gave us this ?? Trump is one dumb SOB
Japan has 12 covid deaths per 1 million population; South Korea has 8 deaths per mil; Taiwan has 0.3 deaths... The US now has 626...!<(!

I picked those 3 to compare because they have a knowledgeable population and advanced systems of health care monitoring and sound systems of government - I did not, for instance, use Uganda as a comparative…

There are several major reasons why the US has had the worst response to the pandemic of any country in terms of deaths and cases and they are all centered around Donald Trump.

• Although the US had by far the best medical infrastructure in the world to deal with a pandemic, hospital beds, trained epidemiologist, virologists, research labs, healthcare agencies, and the premier disease prevention agency in the world, the CDC, we lacked one critical piece, a plan. That was being created in 2018 but Trump disbanded the Pandemic Response Team and re-assigned the personnel. I personally saw the results of the lack of planning in Kirkland Washington where the first major outbreak in the US occurred. It took days to get the CDC on site. They did nothing except gather information. They had no working test kits, no plan for testing and tracing. The State Dept of Health had people on site in less than 24 hours but they did not know what the CDC's responsibilities were and they had no plan for dealing with a pandemic because the federal government had no plan either. The result was the virus spread all over the area, the state, and other states while Pence was traveling around the country for Trump assuring the states that the Trump administration had everything under control when the fact was nothing was under control.
• Trump downplayed the virus in just about everyway possible. He put a travel ban on China out of an abundance of caution but he still allow over 40,000 people to enter the US. He refused to ban travel with Europe which was where most of the cases came from. He assured the public that coronavirus was just the flu, a complete lie. And when the media started raising the alarm, Trump called it a democrat hoax. He set up a pandemic response team headed by Pence, whose apparent purpose was to control information about the virus. The CDC took 2 months to produce test kits that did not work while countries like South Korea had a million working test kits in 2 months. The FDA regulations did not allow labs in the states to process tests. Homeland Security had allowed emergency supplies to become depleted. Nobody ordered any reagents until there was an international shortage Essentially the whole month of March was wasted with the federal government trying to decide what to do and how to do it. States were pretty much on their own. By the end of March there was just under 10,000 deaths, increasing by over 2000 a day and the administration was fighting with the states over the need for testing. Trump was encouraging the Churches to open for Easter and was fighting the closing of businesses. By the end of the April, 10,000 deaths had grown to over 60,000 and they were increasing by 2500 a day. And according to Trump it was just the flu.
• Beginning in late April Trump began his war against the CDC and medical researchers, claiming the virus would just disappear, backing potentially dangerous untested cures for the virus and telling American the virus would be gone by summer. He refused to support CDC guidelines, made statements encouraging people to violate guidelines and even orders by mayor and governors. He blamed just about everyone for the spread of the virus and has refused to take any responsibility.

Throughout the pandemic in the US, healthcare workers and researchers had to deal with two major threats, a very infectious airborne virus and a president seeking reelection.

 

[jknowgood]

Vote your wallet and pocket book....that's all we have folks.....if we go back to the Obama daze....we will all leave the earth poorer than we are today...plain and simple......

Yeah let our kids pay for all them trump deficits.

They will be paying for Obama's record deficits also.

 

[Flopper]

In Conrad Black's opinion piece in today's The Hill, he writes about Peggy Noonan's column in the WSJ which is against Trump. Fair enough, but if her reasons are as Black suggests, then I have something of a problem with that. Obviously, we all have the right to choose, but my argument is on the reasons we should use to make that call. So, this isn't another thread about who you should vote for, but why you should pick this one over that one. Black writes:


Noonan has not been militantly hostile to most of Trump’s policies. She is, after all, a Reagan Republican and no great friend, politically speaking, of most Democrats. While she never gave Trump much credit for anything, she did not dispute his economic success, renunciation of the Paris climate and Iranian nuclear agreements, renegotiation of trade deals, building the wall on the southern border, identifying China’s threat or helping to conciliate Israel and a number of Arab powers. Her objections to Trump have been almost entirely to his garish personality and awkward administrative style, punctuated by endless indiscretions, frequent changes of personnel and fierce (if often humorous) disputes with former close colleagues.

Noonan might agree with many of Trump’s policies but she is unable to abide him as a person, especially in the great office he holds. With her latest column she elaborates on the evolution of her views, moving from an attack on Trump as a person to a formidable defense of Joe Biden as a plausible president. It is not an easy sell.

'Clear and inescapable': The choice between Trump and Biden

Columnist Peggy Noonan has revealed the utter vacuity of the Biden candidacy and a fantasyland aversion to Trump.

thehill.com

This is Noonan's column that appeared in the WSJ:

Opinion | Advice an Old Biden Hand Might Give

Joe, no one thinks you’re a radical socialist. No one. They’re afraid you’ll bend to crazy progressives.

www.wsj.com

Trump gives us many reasons to dislike him IMHO, but what I am saying is that the decision for who to vote for should be based on policies rather than personalities. I would rather have a total asshole in the WH who does things that are in the best interests of the United States than a helluva nice guy who doesn't. Not just for us but for the generations which follow us. I see a huge difference between Trump and Biden; if you don't then so be it.

It is the person and not the policies that deal with crises. We've all seen how Trump deals with crisis. He attacks the victims, ignores the problem, and then demands apologies. Zero character, zero honor. That's more than enough reason not to vote for him.

It is the policies that the person will use to deal with crises. We've all seen how both Trump and the left deal with crises. Trump mouths off a little, but his policies are sensible given the information available at the time. The left immediately looks for a way to exploit the situation to their own advantage, even if it means screwing over their own base or burning our entire nation to the ground, both literally and philosophically.

It would require the invention of new technology to measure my indifference to the "zero honor" criticisms of a lying cretin like you who wants to claim some sort of moral high ground on the basis of "Look at all this bullshit that I've believed and you have to now accept."

You want me to vote based on character and honor? Then I'm voting for anyone who YOU aren't supporting.

Presidential Policy is determined by what a president says and does. If begins with campaign promises before his election, executive orders, directives both written and verbal, and the president's opinion on various issues. So when the president makes statements on Twitter, in speeches, and press conferences, this all becomes part his policy and part the historical record. When statements on twitter contradict previous statements, are without factual basis, or just made for effect they do cause problems. In fact most of Trump's problems are do to his inability to clearly communicate his ideas while remaining factual and consistent.

" In fact most of Trump's problems are do to his inability to clearly communicate his ideas while remaining factual and consistent. "

And you think Biden is any better? Even when communicated clearly, do you approve of Biden's stated policies, relative to Trump's? Or has your TDS completely overridden your critical thinking?

I have no doubt that Biden will communicate effectively with Americans being factual and consistent. This is because he's a life long politician and public servant. In addition, he will certainly listen and follow advice of his advisors which is what he has always done. Unlike Trump, Biden is not prone to conspiracy theories and certainly is not a contrarian who follows his intuitions over the advice of experts. In other words, Biden will be one of those rather boring presidents who runs the federal government as you would expect, following the constitution and federal laws and unlike Trump has no interest in stirring things up just for fun it. Furthermore he does not subscribe to Trump's beliefs that the president is above law.

 

[eddiew37]

As compared to trumps ""what's in it for me "" biden will be a breath of fresh air

 

[Flopper]

Vote your wallet and pocket book....that's all we have folks.....if we go back to the Obama daze....we will all leave the earth poorer than we are today...plain and simple......

Yeah let our kids pay for all them trump deficits.

They will be paying for Obama's record deficits also.

Trump has now spent more in 3 1/2 years than Obama spent in 8 years. But don't worry Trump has promised to eliminate the 26 trillion dollar debt in 8 years. I guess he is going to ask Mexico to pay it off along with the cost of the Wall he didn't build..