Should we allow the alarmists to alarm us as to climate?

[ding]

No one has claimed that CO2 is the sole controller of the Earth's climate. Ever. That it is the primary factor at present can be determined by calculation of its effects versusthat other factors. I hope I do not need to put up the radiative forcing factors graphic again, but I will if you insist.

And yet they have attributed almost all of the recent warming trend to CO2 which is ridiculous and not supported by any empirical evidence. In fact, it is contrary to the empirical evidence.

 

[ding]

Rising CO2 levels are warming the planet with an ECS of 3 (2.5 - 4)C

That is absurd. CO2 is a relatively weak GHG and has a logarithmic relationship to temperature. For every doubling of CO2 surface temperature will rise by 1C.

The atmosphere does not drive the climate of the planet. The ocean does. That's where the heat is at.

 

[Robert W]

Wrong. You’re in non science, non math group speak because, “rate of change” means nothing to you. Mainly because, the rate of change in climate conditions has huge effect on species survival. If you’re not into evolution and natural selection, you should have NO PLACE at the table in climate change. Which is hilarious in your part if you are an evolution denier, because ALL MAJOR RELIGIONS INCLUDING CHRISTIAN, are accepting of climate change and AGW.

I have held back remarking about you other than your crappy use of a famous pitchers face in your avatar.
You profit from scaring the hell out of citizens. Plain and simple, if they do not believe you, you believe it costs you money.

Nobody will persuade me that you are scared shitless of 2 or 3 degrees F spaced out over 150 years. Who the hell could be that scared, his aim is to go on a forum and defend others who profit from this scare tactic?

 

[Dagosa]

You are twisted as hell. I was attempting to limit this to climate. But you want to insert rank confusion. What the fuck make you bring up evolution? Or Religion?

Wrong. Climate chang IS NOT LIMITED. All you nimrods wish it wasn’t. It affects immigration, employment, future infrastructure needs, your taxes and it is a religious question. We all know you deniers want to think you’re the few smart people. But you aren’t. EVOLUTION IS PART OF IT and you’re non science buffoon if you don’t see it. No major Christian religion denys it so you have no allies there.

 

[ding]

It is EASILY shown to be abnormal over the entire Quaternary Period (2.85 million years).

What? temperature? That's absurd.

"...In the global climate models (GCMs) most of the warming that has taken place since 1950 is attributed to human activity. Historically, however, there have been large climatic variations.Temperature reconstructions indicate that there is a ‘warming’ trend that seems to have been going on for as long as approximately 400 years. Prior to the last 250 years or so, such a trend could only be due to natural causes..."

"...The preceding four interglacial periods are seen at about 125,000, 280,000, 325,000 and 415,000 years before now, with much longer glacial periods in between. All four previous interglacial periods are seen to be warmer than the present. The typical length of a glacial period is about 100,000 years, while an interglacial period typically lasts for about 10-15,000 years. The present inter-glacial period has now lasted about 11,600 years..."

"...Kobashi et al. (2011) have reconstructed Greenland surface snow temperature variability over the past 4,000 years (until 1993) at the GISP2 site (near the Summit of the Greenland ice sheet) with a new method that utilizes argon and nitrogen isotopic ratios from occluded air bubbles (Figure B4, Appendix B). These data indicate that warmer temperatures were the norm in the earlier part of the past 4,000 years, including century-long intervals nearly 1°C warmer than the decade (2001-2010). Therefore, it appears that the current decadal mean temperature in Greenland has not exceeded the envelope of natural variability over the past 4,000 years. Schönwiese (1995)has reconstructed temperatures from ice cores in Greenland for the last 11,000 years (Figure B5,Appendix B). These reconstructions show that during the past 10,000 years temperatures over long periods were higher than they are today. The warmest phase occurred 4,000 to 8,000 years agoand is known as the Holocene Climate Optimum or the Atlantic Period..."

https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-milj...594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf

 

[Robert W]

Wrong. Climate chang IS NOT LIMITED. All you nimrods wish it wasn’t. It affects immigration, employment, future infrastructure needs, your taxes and it is a religious question. We all know you deniers want to think you’re the few smart people. But you aren’t. EVOLUTION IS PART OF IT and you’re non science buffoon if you don’t see it. No major Christian religion denys it so you have no allies there.

Oh so you are the head of the Church of climate alarmists.

 

[ding]

All of it. All of the CO2 above the preindustrial 280 ppm is from the combustion of fossil fuels. And the world was cooling before AGW began.

Why would you assume the cooling would continue when the planet is in an interglacial period which is still 2C below the projected peak temperature of the interglacial?

https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-milj...594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf

 

[Dagosa]

Oh so you are the head of the Church of climate alarmists.

Bet your bull shitting on it. You do have this dumb idea that it’s dreamed up by a few alarmist. Tell us bubba, what else has every major science research center in the world, every country and every major corporation dreamed up ?

 

[ding]

Global warming has been accelerating since 1850.

During an interglacial period that is 2C colder than previous interracial periods and is still within the normal range of temperatures.

"...Kobashi et al. (2011) have reconstructed Greenland surface snow temperature variability over the past 4,000 years (until 1993) at the GISP2 site (near the Summit of the Greenland ice sheet) with a new method that utilizes argon and nitrogen isotopic ratios from occluded air bubbles (Figure B4, Appendix B). These data indicate that warmer temperatures were the norm in the earlier part of the past 4,000 years, including century-long intervals nearly 1°C warmer than the decade (2001-2010). Therefore, it appears that the current decadal mean temperature in Greenland has not exceeded the envelope of natural variability over the past 4,000 years. Schönwiese (1995)has reconstructed temperatures from ice cores in Greenland for the last 11,000 years (Figure B5,Appendix B). These reconstructions show that during the past 10,000 years temperatures over long periods were higher than they are today. The warmest phase occurred 4,000 to 8,000 years agoand is known as the Holocene Climate Optimum or the Atlantic Period..."

https://www.ssb.no/en/natur-og-milj...594b9225f9d7dc458b0b70a646baec3339/DP1007.pdf

 

[ding]

There are a very few positives to our climate warming but even there, the excessive RATE at which it is taking place makes it very difficult to actualize any benefit. The harms are severe. The IPCC has studied both sides of that coin extensively. We have not covered it much here but we could.

That is an idiotic statement. There are very few positives from a colder planet. Warmer is just fine. Besides it's not getting any warmer than 2C because the AMOC will switch off like it has been doing for 3 million years.

 

[ding]

Sea level rise is a complex topic but it is safe to say that very close to every millimeter of rise since 1850 is due to warming and increased meltwater. If you want to suggest other causes, you are going to run into a problem that all these "doubts" run into: natural, non-anthropogenic causes do not act as quickly as the process we have been experiencing.

Sea level vs temperature and glaciation threshold temperatures are well established by the geologic record. I really do wish you would study them.

 

[ding]

Yes, it is rising.

And according to some ridiculous estimates will triple by the end of this decade. There's no chance of that happening. None at all.

 

[ding]

The world's oceans are rising due to warming, directly and indirectly. Reduced or reversed warming will reduce or reverse sea level rise, though there will be a considerable lag. No one is promising immediate results. They are promising that a failure to act will cost the species more than anyone wants to pay.

This might be the worst summary of ocean heating in the history of summaries. It is almost as bad as your vague prediction of catastrophe. It's a great bed time story for children though. All that's missing is a guy on the corner with a sign saying the end is near.

 

[ding]

It is certainly abnormal placed against all the data we possess, and that includes data extending back well before the beginning of satellite data.

Happens ever interglacial period except worse because they were 2C warmer with 120 ppm less CO2 than today.

 

[ding]

The only factor working in that direction and consistently tending towards less ice is global warming and human use of fossil fuels are the primary cause of global warming.

Only if you ASSUME almost all of the warming is from CO2 which is a ridiculous assumption given the geologic record is littered with warming and cooling trends in both glacial and interglacial periods.

 

[ding]

AGW will cause an increase in extreme weather events.

No. Warming will. And it's nothing the planet hasn't experienced in previous interglacial periods except they were worse because they were 2C warmer than today.

 

[ding]

Weather is driven by thermal energy. The more energy there is in our climate system, the more energy there will be in our weather.

No different than any other interglacial period.

 

[Mashmont]

Well, if your own Defense Department says it's an issue...it probably is.
And then..there's this.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/climate/the-planet-is-heating-up-faster-than-predicted-says-scientist-who-first-warned-the-world-about-climate-change/index.html

Yes. Government agencies can never be political or corrupt, and CNN has certainly proven to be an objective source.

 

[Robert W]

Bet your bull shitting on it. You do have this dumb idea that it’s dreamed up by a few alarmist. Tell us bubba, what else has every major science research center in the world, every country and every major corporation dreamed up ?

I have shown you scientists who call your beliefs PURE UNADULTERATED BULLSHIT. No need to listen to me, listen to all of them.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yup. And NONE of the deniers are engaged in a systematic study of climate change through experimentation and observation. None. None has passed the muster of of this system. Our system includes consensus by tens of thousands of climate science participanuts.m
Name one you are a part of. Name one that any of your frauds that support them.

You know little about science. Every effort is made to prove theories incomplete or wrong bynparticipating institutions.

Once you go ad hominem you lose the debate. Have a pleasant evening.