Should Ukraine yield territory to Russia?

[peacefan]

Given that China has a national debt per capita (in 2020) of $7164, and that that's $84,866 per capita in the US in the same year,
given that China is on technological (near-)parity with us these days,
i believe we should let China have that seat at the head of the negotiating table over the conflict in Ukraine, and i believe that the territories in Donbass all the way into and including Crimea should for local ethnic reasons alone be yielded to Russia.
they *speak* Russian in those "occupied territories".

or we find ourselves guilty of prolonging 2 nations' suffering by many years.

 

[peacefan]

we should test the Chinese and the Russians before we judge them.
let them have their win in Ukraine,
see what they do with that win.
see how they treat us after that win.
and only then we have the idealogical upperhand if we need to go hard on them.

 

[peacefan]

having the idealogical upperhand is of vital importance.
it determines how many volunteer troops you'll have.
and only volunteer troops are any good.

 

[luiza]

Ukraine will do as it is told after Russia has taken more territory .

And there is nothing to stop Moscow dictating its own terms .

Whether people like that or approve is irrelevant .

 

[peacefan]

and if you retake Crimea, then you'll be cutting Moscow off from the Black Sea.
and that's a big no-no if you ask me.
you do not intrude into people's backyard.
what we did with Lithuania and the other Baltic countries is bad enough.

 

[peacefan]

Ukraine will do as it is told after Russia has taken more territory .

probably.

And there is nothing to stop Moscow dictating its own terms .

i beg to differ. but the casualty counts to make that happen, are not insignificant.

Whether you like that or approve is irrelevant .

to you maybe.

 

[playtime]

no.

 

[AlexanderPK]

Ukraine will do as it is told after Russia has taken more territory .

And there is nothing to stop Moscow dictating its own terms .

Whether you like that or approve is irrelevant .

Your stance on these matters reminds me that of Dmitry Medvedev's. Know the guy?

 

[Confederate Soldier]

Probably the dumbest take I've heard all day. Let's let a dictatorship decide how much an invading dictatorship gets in a war for territory!

 

[peacefan]

no.

so long as the war don't happen in your back yard eh?

 

[peacefan]

Probably the dumbest take I've heard all day. Let's let a dictatorship decide how much an invading dictatorship gets in a war for territory!

no, with 'a spot at the head of the table', i meant the newspaper headlines.
in reality, we'd have just as much say as the Ukranians, the Russians and the Europeans.
but we Westerners need to be willing to convince Ukraine to choose for peace by giving up conquered territories and encircled territories.

 

[MisterBeale]

I, personally, do not see why the world does not solve this, the same way it solved the Bosnian conflict.

According to article one of the United Nations.

Purposes and Principles of the UN (Chapter I of UN Charter) | United Nations Security Council

Back to Top Purposes and Principles of the United Nations Related Articles Article 1 (2) Article 2 (4) Article 2 (5) Article 2 (6) Article 2 (7) Articles 1 and 2 of the Charter of the United Nations outline the purposes and principles of the United Nations. The Repertoire individually covers...

www.un.org

Why not just have the people that live in the contested regions, vote which way they want to go? Sorta like the world agreed to settle the Bosnian conflict?

Oh wait, because the war is not about what the people want, it is about what corporations want, and about resources, in the end, isn't it?

Situation Ukraine Refugee Situation

data.unhcr.org

Estimated number of refugees from Ukraine recorded in Europe and Asia since February 2022 as of January 31, 2023, by selected country​

Ukrainian refugees by country 2024 | Statista

Russia, Germany, and Poland were the countries with the largest number of Ukrainian refugees as of March 2024. The UK recorded over 253,000 refugees.

www.statista.com

It seems to me, all those folks would not have fled to Russia from that area in dispute, if they did not want to be part of Russia. . . regardless of all the knuckle headed propaganda reports we are being fed here in the West . . .

And these refuge reports are from unbiased sources.


The problem is, NATO and the EU have a real problem with reality. The fact is? For the western powers? This is about the agricultural land and the natural gas that those ethnic Russian homes occupy. The neo-Nazis and western powers, just don't like reality. They are being immoral.

It is the western powers that don't desire peace.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Russia was reported to have forced people into Russia. I realize you dont care about facts or such , further since Russia controls those areas there would be no fair impartial voting taking place any where in them.

 

[playtime]

so long as the war don't happen in your back yard eh?

i would fight to the death if red dawn actually happened & not one inch of my country would yield to the rooooskies.

i say more power to the ukranians & putin can eat shit.

 

[peacefan]

it's a real shame to see such warmongering be so common in the US, on both sides of the aisle even.

 

[peacefan]

tonnes of RT.ru crap , no they dont they speak surzhik ivan. by the way why your putin´s cuckold call yourself for "

peacefan" you are putin´s cuckold and muslim lover , slave ivan​

ps you lost this war ivan

if you Americans are so war hungry, then we Europeans can go our own way.
what your dear Trump said about NATO, i'm now starting to feel as well.

i have no desire to support holding on to Ukraine or Baltic states for that matter, with European lives or money.
you wanna be the arsenal of the world, and the caretakers for democracy and capitalism, feel free to, but do it on your own from now on.

 

[Litwin]

we Europeans

you are a mongol ivan

"Let us begin with this evident fact: Muscovy does not belong at all to Europe, but to Asia. It follows that judging Muscovy and the Muscovites by our European standards is a mistake to be avoided."—gonzague de reynold, 19501 In methodological terms, one should de-Europeanise any analysis of Muscovy policy.— thomas gomart, 20062 "

THESE ARE EUROPEANS :

 

[Bleipriester]

if you Americans are so war hungry, then we Europeans can go our own way.
what your dear Trump said about NATO, i'm now starting to feel as well.

i have no desire to support holding on to Ukraine or Baltic states for that matter, with European lives or money.
you wanna be the arsenal of the world, and the caretakers for democracy and capitalism, feel free to, but do it on your own from now on.

Litwin is a deserted Ukrainian.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Given that China has a national debt per capita (in 2020) of $7164, and that that's $84,866 per capita in the US in the same year,
given that China is on technological (near-)parity with us these days,
i believe we should let China have that seat at the head of the negotiating table over the conflict in Ukraine, and i believe that the territories in Donbass all the way into and including Crimea should for local ethnic reasons alone be yielded to Russia.
they *speak* Russian in those "occupied territories".

or we find ourselves guilty of prolonging 2 nations' suffering by many years.

What we are you talking about?

 

[MisterBeale]

Russia was reported to have forced people into Russia. I realize you dont care about facts or such , further since Russia controls those areas there would be no fair impartial voting taking place any where in them.

No, I do care. There are of course, two sides to every story. I can't say, one side is any more trust worthy than the other.

If the west controlled those regions, are you saying that then, it would be impartial?

'The mouth of a bear': Ukrainian refugees sent to Russia

NARVA, Estonia (AP) — For weeks Natalya Zadoyanova had lost contact with her younger brother Dmitriy, who was trapped in the besieged Ukrainian port city of Mariupol.

apnews.com

". . Nearly 2 million Ukrainians refugees have been sent to Russia, according to both Ukrainian and Russian officials. Ukraine portrays these journeys as forced transfers to enemy soil, which is considered a war crime. Russia calls them humanitarian evacuations of war victims who already speak Russian and are grateful for a new home.. . "