should the US prohibit people under the age of 21 from purchasing or owning large capacity guns ?

[Vrenn]

That's precisely not what he said.

Actually, he wasn't really precise in what he said.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Actually, he wasn't really precise in what he said.

Pretty sure I read the entire quote chain. The gun laws of countries in the eastern hemisphere are not influenced by gun violence happening at/near/across their adjacent southern borders. Australia and New Zealand most certainly don't have those. Therefore it makes it quite hard to import weapons even with such strict measures in place.

 

[Vrenn]

Perhaps, but you are also comparing apples to oranges.

What you are doing is making comparisons between near or absolute single-culture societies to ours. We are the most multi-culturial society on the planet. Without our minorities, our violent crime rate would be very comparable to the nearly all white places you speak of. In the US, 54% of our murders are committed by just 13% of our population which are blacks. Given the fact most murders are by males, most murders are committed by 7 to 8% of our population which are black males.

As we have always said, it's not the weapon, but the people.

In other words you make a law that all people in a middle-class white suburb must have a firearm in the household. Their violent crime statistics will not change. Then make a law that no guns are allowed in a high-crime minority city, their violent crime rate will not change either. They will always find a way to get guns.

In the end, by disarming law abiding citizens, what you end up with is a country where only the criminals and police have the guns.

Has it ever been tried all across the US? And then has it been enforced vigorously? Nope. But the old Western Bans were and they worked right after the shooting and killing by the Marshals and Sheriffs stopped. Well, with the exception of Deadwood Dakota Territory where no one screwed with those Sheriffs, Marshals and Deputies as they knew they would be killed dead on the spot. In Dallas TX, the Town Marshal gave you one warning. If you ignored it, he shot you down with no warning. Didn't take people very long to stop carrying short arms.

 

[Vrenn]

Pretty sure I read the entire quote chain. The gun laws of countries in the eastern hemisphere are not influenced by gun violence happening at/near/across their adjacent southern borders. Australia and New Zealand most certainly don't have those.

But they are influenced by mass shootings. In the US, we may tolerate the normal criminal on criminal shooting or even the occasional drive by but we should NOT tolerate the School Mass Shootings and we lead the world in those. The Border has zero to do with any of that.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Has it ever been tried all across the US? And then has it been enforced vigorously? Nope. But the old Western Bans were and they worked right after the shooting and killing by the Marshals and Sheriffs stopped. Well, with the exception of Deadwood Dakota Territory where no one screwed with those Sheriffs, Marshals and Deputies as they knew they would be killed dead on the spot. In Dallas TX, the Town Marshal gave you one warning. If you ignored it, he shot you down with no warning. Didn't take people very long to stop carrying short arms.

This isn't the f'ing Wild West anymore, mate. We have due process laws for this exact reason.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The Border has zero to do with any of that.

I disagree.

Our inability to regulate the flow of humanity from our southern border virtually ensures that there will be a mass murderer who gets through.

 

[Vrenn]

This isn't the f'ing Wild West anymore, mate. We have due process laws for this exact reason.

Since the beginning and middle of the 1870s, the Wild Wild West was done and over with. But it took quite a lot to get it to move on. I think AU had the same problems during it's early days but it didn't last long either.

Due Process only works on Citizens, not perpetual Criminals.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But they are influenced by mass shootings.

That happened within the confines of their own borders, yes.

In the US, we may tolerate the normal criminal on criminal shooting or even the occasional drive by

Lori Lightfoot might, but the rest of us don't.

 

[Vrenn]

I disagree.

Our inability to regulate the flow of humanity from our southern border virtually ensures that there will be a mass murderer who gets through.

One problem, it's not the illegals doing the mass murdering. It's US Citizens. You are playing the "What If" game. In reality, a White American Male has a higher chance to become a mass murderer than any other group.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Since the beginning and middle of the 1870s, the Wild Wild West was done and over with. But it took quite a lot to get it to move on. I think AU had the same problems during it's early days but it didn't last long either.

Due Process only works on Citizens, not perpetual Criminals.

So are you arguing that we suspend the writ of habeas corpus?

Do you realize what kind of legal precedent that would set for the rest of our courts?

 

[Vrenn]

That happened within the confines of their own borders, yes.


Lori Lightfoot might, but the rest of us don't.

We've hit our limits lately. Something has to be finally done.

 

[TemplarKormac]

We've hit our limits lately. Something has to be finally done.

Like suspending habeas corpus?

I don't follow you here. That's an overly emotional and reactive response.

 

[Vrenn]

So are you arguing that we suspend the writ of habeas corpus?

Do you realize what kind of legal precedent that would set for the rest of our courts?

You are playing "Gotcha". Sorry, I don't feel the need to play that game considering I am one of the ones in here that supports Due Process more than most.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In reality, a White American Male has a higher chance to become a mass murderer than any other group.

Explain that to everyone in southside Chicago.

 

[Vrenn]

Explain that to everyone in southside Chicago.

You are still playing "Gotcha".

 

[TemplarKormac]

You are playing "Gotcha". Sorry, I don't feel the need to play that game considering I am one of the ones in here that supports Due Process more than most.

I can easily say that's a lie given what you just argued for. It isn't 'gotcha' when I confront you with your own stated positions.

Don't want the conversation to degenerate to this point? Be more consistent and tell the truth.

 

[TemplarKormac]

You are still playing "Gotcha".

You are ignoring the facts and the flaws in your own premise.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Might I hazard a question here?

Do you even know what 'gotcha' means in this context? What it certainly doesn't mean is 'cover my ass when I'm wrong.'

 

[IM2]

Driving a vehicle is a privilege--gun possession is a right.

Bullshit.

 

[IM2]

You can't drink until you're 21. Don't see all the contradictions. No gun ownership until 21. That would stop a lot more than mass shooting.