should the US prohibit people under the age of 21 from purchasing or owning large capacity guns ?

[TemplarKormac]

As for me, my vote is no. One can simply peruse the gun crime statistics after setting the handgun age limit to 21 and see that it had no appreciable impact on the murder rate with said implement.

I doubt raising the limit to 21 on large capacity machine weapons would affect that of murders committed with long guns.

 

[Vrenn]

I can easily say that's a lie given what you just argued for. It isn't 'gotcha' when I confront you with your own stated positions.

Don't want the conversation to degenerate to this point? Be more consistent and tell the truth.

I was covering a different time with different people. At one time, wearing a badge was tantamount to committing suicide if you followed all the rules. During the 1870s, Due Process only applied to the Federal Government (5th Amendment). As for the States (which more Marshals, Sheriffs and Deputies operated under) that was passed as the 14th Amendment in 1868. But that had one rocky start and was thought to apply more to black ex-slaves which was it's original intent until Perry V United States (1935) where it was finally fully adopted. Funny, the 14th is still high litigated.

So what was Due Process in 1870? Drop the Gun or you get due processed to death.

 

[Vrenn]

Might I hazard a question here?

Do you even know what 'gotcha' means in this context? What it certainly doesn't mean is 'cover my ass when I'm wrong.'

But you ARE wrong the way you attempt to argue. But at least you are civil about it. That's an improvement over others I let Gracie show the door.

 

[Vrenn]

As for me, my vote is no. One can simply peruse the gun crime statistics after setting the handgun age limit to 21 and see that it had no appreciable impact on the murder rate with said implement.

I doubt raising the limit to 21 on large capacity machine weapons would affect that of murders committed with long guns.

In the day to day homicide, it won't have any real change. But the Mass School Shootings it will since almost everyone have been under 21. And the guns were gotten legally.

If you stop even one of these fruitcakes it's worth it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But you ARE wrong the way you attempt to argue.

Oh? I'm fairly certain you made this comment earlier.

Due Process only works on Citizens, not perpetual Criminals.

 

[TemplarKormac]

That's an improvement over others I let Gracie show the door.

Pardon? Gracie? What does she have to do with this, perchance?

 

[TemplarKormac]

If you stop even one of these fruitcakes it's worth it.

Until the next one slips through the cracks with an illegal weapon and mows down 19 more kids.

 

[Vrenn]

Oh? I'm fairly certain you made this comment earlier.

yuppers I did. At what point do you just blow that murderous MF away and be done with it. Do you wait until he kills his 14th or do you wait until he kills a group of 14 school children. At some point, due process becomes no longer relevant.

 

[Vrenn]

Pardon? Gracie? What does she have to do with this, perchance?

Oh, to be young again.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But the Mass School Shootings it will since almost everyone have been under 21.

True. But you are looking at a multiheaded hydra situation here. Lop off one head and two more spring up.

Stop one school shooter and two more will pop up. I just think that the frequency won't change one bit.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Oh, to be young again.

Perhaps I should not continue this line of questioning...

 

[TemplarKormac]

At what point do you just blow that murderous MF away and be done with it.

When the United States devolves into total anarchy, perhaps.

 

[Vrenn]

Until the next one slips through the cracks with an illegal weapon and mows down 19 more kids.

I think I heard a Sheriffs say that if we stop 19 out of 20 it's worth it. But we will never be able to stop all of them. We stopped a 17 year old headed for a middle school with his daddy's AR and 4 30 round mags under a rain slicker. They bagged him inside the 1000 foot safety parameter. He found himself surrounded by 5 very nervous cops with weapons drawn screaming at him. Some old lady thought the kid looked funny wearing a rain slicker on a warm sunny day and called it in.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Do you wait until he kills his 14th or do you wait until he kills a group of 14 school children. At some point, due process becomes no longer relevant.

And are you aware of what kind of precedent that sets? If we ignore due process rights for one habitual criminal, then we must for the other. We would have to given what the 14th Amendment says.

I am totally not for that. Let a jury decide if the killer is worthy of the death penalty.

 

[Vrenn]

When the United States devolves into total anarchy, perhaps.

I will admit I am slight different than most in background. And probably skill level. This is why I got rid of all my firearms. I don't even wish to think about shooting another person. My scrap book is too big already.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I think I heard a Sheriffs say that if we stop 19 out of 20 it's worth it. But we will never be able to stop all of them. We stopped a 17 year old headed for a middle school with his daddy's AR and 4 30 round mags under a rain slicker. They bagged him inside the 1000 foot safety parameter. He found himself surrounded by 5 very nervous cops with weapons drawn screaming at him. Some old lady thought the kid looked funny wearing a rain slicker on a warm sunny day and called it in.

That would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Stopping 19 of 20 isn't bad, but magnify that by how many times over months or years we fail on the 20th time.

 

[Vrenn]

And are you aware of what kind of precedent that sets? If we ignore due process rights for one habitual criminal, then we must for the other. We would have to given what the 14th Amendment says.

I am totally not for that. Let a jury decide if the killer is worthy of the death penalty.

If he is in the process the cops need to shoot to kill. If he survives then you get him. If not I get him.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I will admit I am slight different than most in background. And probably skill level. This is why I got rid of all my firearms. I don't even wish to think about shooting another person. My scrap book is too big already.

Intriguing.

 

[Vrenn]

That would be hilarious if it weren't so sad.

Stopping 19 of 20 isn't bad, but magnify that by how many times over months or years we fail on the 20th time.

We are there right now. We need to do better.

 

[TemplarKormac]

If he is in the process the cops need to shoot to kill. If he survives then you get him. If not I get him.

If he's in the process and is an active threat to the surrounding populous, then yes, cap his ass. But if he survives, he should be tried in court.