Zone1 Should The Christian Bible Be Called "The Book of Opinions?"

[theHawk]

"Witness?" Used as a metaphor?

No.

 

[Dante]

No.

Hmm...

 

[BreezeWood]

Actually, A scroll refers to Him. The Son of God text refers to the Son of God, but there is little of it that remains:
Here's some:
He will be called the Son of God, they will call Him Son of the Most High, The spirit of God will rest upon Him. Fragments contain the wrath of God and Tribulation. After much killing and slaughter a prince of nations. He will be ruler over the land. Will be subject to Him and obey Him. Will be called the Great.
^
It resembles Revelation. But, John died in the first century. And the Son of God text is from the 1st. century. So how did the 4th century forgers get ancient pen and paper to write their Bible Book on a scroll too, (to make it seem like a 1st century document) and then hide it until 1958?

The Bible is the most widely circulated book on earth. And yet the author/s remain a mystery to nonbelievers. That's weird.

- provide the archive of documents preserved by those counsels that wrote their 4th century christian bible that verify anything they included for what they wrote in writing their bible -

the 1st century events were the repudiation of judaism's false commandments and hereditary idolatry -

the scrolls are written by jews and mimic their false religion - what little in truth that was written, same as during inquisitions would be destroyed that veered from the prevailing orthodoxy - especially having just crucified their opponent. the same persona in writing their christian bible in the 4th century - the state religion of the roman empire.

your example does not mention jesus only a belief for something that never materialized at least in regards to a verified statement made by the exemplar in their own writing.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Yes the scrolls were written by Jews. That doesn't make them less accurate. In fact, archeologists rely on the Bible in determining where to dig.

If we can only rely on what is written by someone's own hand, that means only auto biographies can be legitimate, historic and reliable. I disagree.

 

[surada]

Yes the scrolls were written by Jews. That doesn't make them less accurate. In fact, archeologists rely on the Bible in determining where to dig.

If we can only rely on what is written by someone's own hand, that means only auto biographies can be legitimate, historic and reliable. I disagree.

The names of the gospels are tradition. No one knows the names of the actual authors.

 

[CosmicRocker]

No Pali Cannon like in Buddhism. ( suttas as the authentic and authoritative record of the Buddha's own words.) No "divine revelation" like in Islam, the Bible was testimony from men

 

[Ace Nova]

the scrolls are written by jews and mimic their false religion - what little in truth that was written, same as during inquisitions would be destroyed that veered from the prevailing orthodoxy - especially having just crucified their opponent. the same persona in writing their christian bible in the 4th century - the state religion of the roman empire.

your example does not mention jesus only a belief for something that never materialized at least in regards to a verified statement made by the exemplar in their own writing.

I'm not sure why you insist on always pointing the finger at Judaism. Hundreds (possibly thousands) of years prior to the ancient scrolls of Judaism - other sources of both written and spoken "spiritual/religious" doctrine existed - and from a macro perspective - have some of the same concepts as Judaism and the Abrahamic Religions.

Ancient Egyptian culture flourished through adherence to tradition and their legal system followed this same paradigm. Basic laws and legal proscriptions were in place in Egypt as early as the Predynastic Period (c. 6000- c. 3150 BCE) and would continue, and develop, until Egypt was annexed by Rome in 30 BCE. Egyptian law was based on the central cultural value of ma'at (harmony) which had been instituted at the beginning of time by the gods. In order to be at peace with oneself, one's community, and the gods, all one had to do was live a life of consideration, mindfulness, and balance in accordance with ma'at.

Humans are not always considerate or mindful, however, and history illustrates well how poorly they maintain balance; and so laws were created to encourage people on the desired path. Since the law was founded on so simple a divine principle, and since it seemed clear that adhering to that principle was beneficial to all, transgressors were often punished severely. Although there are certainly cases of leniency shown to criminal suspects, the operative legal opinion was that one was guilty until proven innocent since, otherwise, one would not have been accused in the first place.

Ancient Egyptian Law

Ancient Egyptian culture flourished through adherence to tradition and their legal system followed this same paradigm. Basic laws and legal proscriptions were in place in Egypt as early as the Predynastic...

www.worldhistory.org

Uru-ka-gina, Uru-inim-gina, or Iri-ka-gina (Sumerian: 𒌷𒅗𒄀𒈾 URU-KA-gi.na; c. 24th century BC, middle chronology) was King of the city-states of Lagash and Girsu in Mesopotamia, and the last ruler of the 1st Dynasty of Lagash.[3] He assumed the title of king, claiming to have been divinely appointed, upon the downfall of his corrupt predecessor, Lugalanda.

He is best known for his reforms to combat corruption, which are sometimes cited as the first example of a legal code in recorded history. Although the actual text has not been discovered, much of its content may be surmised from other references to it that have been found. In it, he exempted widows and orphans from taxes; compelled the city to pay funeral expenses (including the ritual food and drink libations for the journey of the dead into the lower world); and decreed that the rich must use silver when purchasing from the poor, and if the poor does not wish to sell, the powerful man (the rich man or the priest) cannot force him to do so.[4]

The Code of Ur-Nammu is the oldest known law code surviving today. It is from Mesopotamia and is written on tablets, in the Sumerian language c. 2100–2050 BCE. It contains strong statements of royal power like "I eliminated enmity, violence, and cries for justice."[1]​

The prologue, typical of Mesopotamian law codes, invokes the deities for Ur-Nammu's kingship, Nanna and Utu, and decrees "equity in the land". It was followed by 32 "surviving laws" - such as:

1. If a man commits a murder, that man must be killed.
2. If a man commits a robbery, he will be killed.
3. If a man commits a kidnapping, he is to be imprisoned and pay 15 shekels of silver.
4. If a slave marries a slave, and that slave is set free, he does not leave the household.[a]
5. If a slave marries a native [i.e. free] person, he/she is to hand the firstborn son over to his owner.
6. If a man violates the right of another and deflowers the virgin wife of a young man, they shall kill that male.
7. If the wife of a man followed after another man and he slept with her, they shall slay that woman, but that male shall be set free. [§4 in some translations]
8. If a man proceeded by force, and deflowered the virgin female slave of another man, that man must pay five shekels of silver. (5)
9. If a man divorces his first-time wife, he shall pay (her) one mina of silver. (6)
10. If it is a (former) widow whom he divorces, he shall pay (her) half a mina of silver.

(Followed by 22 other laws)

​

The Code of Lipit-Ishtar is similar in structure to the Code of Ur-Nammu, the oldest surviving law code.[4] It has a prologue, which justifies its legal authority, a main body which contains the civil and penal laws governing life and a concluding epilogue.[4]

Prologue​

[edit]
The prologue legitimatizes the legal content of the code. The gods An and Enlil are invoked and it is explained that they have invested Lipit-Ishtar as "the country’s prince" in order to "establish justice in the land, eradicate the cry for justice [...] [and] forcefully restrain crime and violence" so "that Sumer and Akkad [can] be happy".[4] The prologue further informs the reader that Lipit-Ishtar has recently freed slaves from Nippur, Ur, and Isin.[4]

The academic Martha Roth summarizes the prologue as containing self-praise of Lipit-Ishtar, listing all Lower Mesopotamian cities under his rule, and emphasizing his success as a restorer of justice.[5]

Laws​

[edit]
The existing main body consists of almost fifty legal provisions.[4] The first set of them deals with boats. They are followed by provisions on agriculture, fugitive slaves, false testimony, foster care, apprenticeship, marriage and sexual relationships as well as rented oxen.[6] The provisions are all introduced by the Sumerian tukun-be, meaning "if".[6][7] The transmitted provisions do not contain crimes which are punished by death.[7]

The code contains, for example, a provision according to which false accusers have to bear the punishment for the crimes they have alleged.[4][7] All extant provisions of the code are listed by Martha Roth[8] and Claus Wilcke [de].[9]



Judaism incorporates some of the same principles as the Egyptian principle of "Ma'at" - To live in harmony - live a life of consideration, mindfulness, and balance.

Leviticus 19: 17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord."

But as it was in ancient Egypt and Ancient Sumer - "Humans are not always considerate or mindful, however, and history illustrates well how poorly they maintain balance; and so laws were created to encourage people on the desired path."


One must also understand that those times were excessively turbulent and violent - ongoing feuds, wars between tribes, peoples, and kingdoms defined much of the region- and from that naturally came, "An Eye for An Eye, A Tooth for a Tooth" - which equates to "balance" when nations decide to "Live By The Sword."

Over the course of centuries, many laws and practices were added to it and so forth. Jesus' ministry was intended to teach people to go back to the "basics" - "Love God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul and strength - and Love Your Neighbor As Yourself" Jesus didn't make those teachings up - he took them from the books of the Old Testament - they were there the entire time but had been buried within hundreds of other laws and practices.

Why "Love God with all your heart, with all your mind, with all your soul and strength?"

Because God is:

Loving, Compassionate, Merciful - (Heart)
Intelligent, Wise, Just - (Mind)
Spiritual, Graceful, Universal - (Soul)
Powerful, Loyal, Eternal (Strength)

If you believe that - then "Loving your neighbor as yourself" should come naturally to most.

By truly following these teachings, you begin to turn a world full of laws, rituals, greed, discord and idols into what Jesus and the Prophets had described as a "New Heaven and a New Earth". You will begin to see and feel (Spiritual life/awakening) what others who do not follow these principles cannot see or feel (Those still asleep).

Luke 17:20

Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.” (Within you, around you).

 

[The Irish Ram]

The names of the gospels are tradition. No one knows the names of the actual authors.

The most widely sold book on the planet and no one knows who wrote it yet? In that case, we should assume that the authors are who the Bible says they are until the world finds that really elusive author.

 

[BreezeWood]

Jesus' ministry was intended to teach people to go back to the "basics"

really ... is that the repudiation of judaism's false commandments claimed by the liar moses, the hereditary idolatry of abraham - claims of heavenly personifications that never existed and used by the three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

those in the 1st century did return to the basics - liberation theology, self determination what jesus taught - it's just not found in the 4th century christian bible.

 

[Dante]

great opinions

 

[ding]

"Marxism is materialism. As such, it is as relentlessly hostile to religion..." Vladimir Lenin

 

[Ace Nova]

really ... is that the repudiation of judaism's false commandments claimed by the liar moses, the hereditary idolatry of abraham - claims of heavenly personifications that never existed and used by the three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

those in the 1st century did return to the basics - liberation theology, self determination what jesus taught - it's just not found in the 4th century christian bible.

Did you bother to read the rest of my post? Have you read the Old Testament? The Books of the Law? The Books of the Prophets? Jesus and his Apostles did. Jesus was called a "Rabbi" and "Teacher" by his followers.

Who exactly was persecuted and victimized, in your opinion? Were the Jews "persecuted and victimized" when Moses freed them from Egypt and spent the rest of his life leading them through the desert to their "promised land"?

Were the Israelites "persscuted and victimized" when the Commandments were established? Let's see:

• Worship/Follow one God - instead of "many gods"
• Don't create false idols
• Don't use God's name in vain, to curse people etc
• Remember the Sabbath - forced people to give their servants/workers a day off
• Honor/Respect those that came before you - (Stated as Father/Mother)
• Don't kill - self explanitory
• Don't commit adultery - don't cheat on you husband or wife
• Don't steal - self explanitory
• Don't lie, don't accuse people of things they did not do, don't judge if it's not your place to judge
• Don't obsess over things that are not yours - material objects, people etc

"Love your neighbor as yourself" (Book of Leviticus)

Deuteronomy 15:11: “There will always be poor people in the land. Therefore I command you to be openhanded toward your fellow Israelites who are poor and needy in your land.”

Proverbs 29:7: “A righteous man knows the rights of the poor; a wicked man does not understand such knowledge.”

Isaiah 25:4: “For you have been a stronghold to the poor, a stronghold to the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat; for the breath of the ruthless is like a storm against a wall.”

Isaiah 58:10: “If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.

"Self Determination" as you repeatedly preach is essentially "Free Will" here on Earth. The Abrahamic Religions obviously allow "Free Will" and it is spoken of repeatedly in the Old Testament. God simply instructs:

This is what will happen if you do this:

This is what will happen if you "don't do this" and do this instead:

It is repeated story with Israel. Israel does things in accordance to God's favor (Universal law) and things go well for Israel. Israel does things that are not in accordance with God's favor (Universal law) and things begin to go bad for Israel. It was worded differently so that people living in 1000 BC could understand but the message is the same.

 

[surada]

The most widely sold book on the planet and no one knows who wrote it yet? In that case, we should assume that the authors are who the Bible says they are until the world finds that really elusive author.

Exactly.

 

[BreezeWood]

... and used by the three desert religions to persecute and victimize the innocent.

Jesus was called a "Rabbi" and "Teacher" by his followers ... Who exactly was persecuted and victimized,

jesus was never a jew, sinner - the exemplars: mary joseph mary m - were heavenly chosen for their lack of fear of moses and judaism's false commandments, hereditary idolatry ...

do you live in a cave, the persecutions and victimization of the innocent have persisted from that time to the present, unabated by the desert and perpetrated by them.

howabout, bring the crucifiers to justice, christian. see what's left of your bible.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Breezie, you have a religion all your own.
Jesus was a Jewish Rabbi then, now and tomorrow.

 

[Dante]

I wonder why the religious can't explain like this: "But the real clincher is the simple fact that there must be a ball. Posit the existence of a ball, which for some reason the Twiloans cannot see, and suddenly everything works." With the Bible people it's all about belief and faith.

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/back-to-leon-lederman-and-the-invisible-soccer-ball.1120551/

 

[Picaro]

Every complete copy of each of the Gospels use the same names for the authors.

 

[Picaro]

"Marxism is materialism. As such, it is as relentlessly hostile to religion..." Vladimir Lenin

Yes, which is why Wall Street loves Red China as well. The 'social Darwinism' peddled by the right wing makes them a perfect love match with the Cadre.

 

[ding]

I wonder why the religious can't explain like this: "But the real clincher is the simple fact that there must be a ball. Posit the existence of a ball, which for some reason the Twiloans cannot see, and suddenly everything works." With the Bible people it's all about belief and faith.

https://www.usmessageboard.com/threads/back-to-leon-lederman-and-the-invisible-soccer-ball.1120551/

I wonder why other people's religious beliefs bother you so much.

 

[Donald H]

I wonder why other people's religious beliefs bother you so much.

Meri has just started a new thread in this section that better deals with the question. To which I've quoted you as being a questionable source of reassurance.