Should Fleeing Motorcylists in High-Speed Chases Be Shot By Police ?

[protectionist]

He is a Grade A kookburger with delusions of adequacy.

LOL! Yeah, he certainly has been busy. The list of things he bring to the table to chase a girl was funny.

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

 

[S.J.]

He is a Grade A kookburger with delusions of adequacy.

LOL! Yeah, he certainly has been busy. The list of things he bring to the table to chase a girl was funny.

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Oh yeah, they just can't wait to get their hands on your sagging flabby ass. Or maybe it's all that hair (growing out of your ears). When you wake up from your fantasy, we're still waiting for you to make your case for premeditated murder of motorcyclists for what they "might" do.

 

[protectionist]

LOL! Yeah, he certainly has been busy. The list of things he bring to the table to chase a girl was funny.

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Oh yeah, they just can't wait to get their hands on your sagging flabby ass. Or maybe it's all that hair (growing out of your ears). When you wake up from your fantasy, we're still waiting for you to make your case for premeditated murder of motorcyclists for what they "might" do.

No you're not. You couldn't be that dumb. And you couldn't be dumb enough to expect me to believe that yo think something as stupid as that. And hey, wasn't that you who was saying I couldn't be 68 ? And that I'm really just 16 or something like that ?
So now your think I'm old, huh ? One day you say one thing. Another day you say the opposite. What's the matter ? Too much weed ? Too much brush fire smoke ? Too many earthquakes ? Too much smog ?

 

[WinterBorn]

Looks like we've reached a bit of an impasse. You say I need to show that motorcycles can be dangerous to drivers of cars & trucks. I say that is idiocy, as any motorcycle driven too too fast, is reckless and OF COURSE, a danger to motorists down the road a bit. So you say no they're not. I, (and probably 90% of most people with common sense), say yes they are.

OK. We've heard from you. We've got your take on it. 10-4. Message received, dude. No need for the replays. Looks like you're not gonna to change, and there's absolutely no chance that I'm going to.

I have nothing against you wearing your hair how you wish, I just thought I'd put in a word of advice. And I think all those who call the look you have, "sexy" or positive in any way are leading you on, and are disingenous while trying to be polite, that's all.
Hey, as we used to say in the 60s, do you own thing, not anybody else's, and if you ever want to catch some good fish in numbers, come down here to Tampa (or St Pete), and fish off the piers for Spanish Mackerel and Florida Pompano, especially in April, during the middle of any tide, on the leeward side of the pier (or bridge). You fish in the middle of the water column, with ether white/red jigs or frozen shrimp on a # 2 hook, and twitch the rod tip repeatedly.
Do all that, and you'll never catch more fish in a shorter period of time (good eating too), in all your life. Just be careful extracting the hook or lure. Spanish have teeth like a hacksaw.

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z346/CALBMF/FLO2/DSC01388web.jpg

If speeding motorcycles caused the deaths of drivers of cars & trucks, you should be able to find some evidence of it. To be unable to do so means it does not happen with enough regularity to make the assumption that any speeding motorcycle is an imminent danger. Therefore you have no case for executing the bikers.

As for my hairstyle, that was obviously just an aside for you. You intentionally diverted away from the topic. No problem. I understand why. As for your proclamation that it is unsexy, I think you claiming to know what is sexy to everyone is rather ludicrous.

I have actually fished off the piers in St. Pete. I worked in Tampa and Sarasota for several years when Verizon was doing the big fiber build. While I was there I made friends with a guy in Venice who has a nice boat. That makes for great fishing.

I actually caught more fish off the piers than boats I went out in . Piers are great fish attracters at middle tides.

As for the evidence of speeding motorcycles causing the deaths of drivers of cars & trucks,....able, should, and did. ANd you're straying off topic. The TOPIC isn't a "case for executing the bikers", the topic is a case for not executing the other motorists on the road who are driving properly, which, incidentally besides car and trucks, could also be other motorcylists as well.

Straying off topic?? Really? YOu can actually post that with a straight face?

How is my cigar on topic? How is my facial hair on topic? And yet, you posted several times on them.

The topic is your question from the OP. "Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ?".

But unless you can show that speeding motorcycles are actually jeopardizing other driver's lives, the question is worthless.

 

[WinterBorn]

Just for the record >> According to the MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT CAUSE FACTORS AND
IDENTIFICATION OF COUNTERMEASURES, VOLUME I: TECHNICAL REPORT
H.H. Hurt, Jr., J.V. Ouellet, D.R. Thom

Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California, Los Angeles, California 90007

"In the single vehicle accidents, motorcycle rider error was present as the accident precipitating factor in about two-thirds of the cases, with the typical error being a slide-out and fall, due to overbraking or running wide on a curve due to excess speed or under-cornering."

"Lack of attention to the driving task is a common factor for the motorcyclist in an accident."

"The typical motorcycle accident allows the motorcyclist just less than 2 seconds to complete all collision avoidance action."

"Motorcycle modifications such as those associated with the Semi-Chopper or Cafe Racer are definitely overrepresented in accidents."

"Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed an impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection." (goggles)

http://isddc.dot.gov/OLPFiles/NHTSA/013695.pdf

Yes, riding a motorcycle can be dangerous. No one has denied that the biker is open to injury & death. But you would be hard pressed to make a case for shooting a speeding motorcyclist to save his life.

Still nothing showing it jeopardizes the lives of those in cars.

Nobody said anything about "shooting a speeding motorcyclist to save his life" until you here, now. The lives I'm interested in, are those of the innocent, and responsible other drivers on the roads. How anybody could not see how a reckless, speeding motorcyclist jeopardizes the lives of those in cars (or trucks or other motorcycles as well) is really quite amazing. Just the first one of the Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California quotes you quoted alone, sums it up.

The link to the MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT CAUSE FACTORS AND
IDENTIFICATION OF COUNTERMEASURES, VOLUME I: TECHNICAL REPORT showed me a very boring report that basically states that the main cause of motorcycle accidents is failure to yield by other motorists.

I also saw absolutely no information concerning any deaths of drivers or passengers in other vehicles.

So you will, once again, have to provide evidence of that or admit defeat. If you can produce no evidence of a serious likelihood of death to the drivers or passengers of the other vehicles, you have absolutely no justification for executing the biker.

 

[WinterBorn]

To answer the question of the OP title, perhaps we should evaluate the cost/benefit analysis of it. If cops don't shoot the jerk, rampaging through traffic at 100 MPH (or even at much lesser speeds), then a number of motorists might get killed, or badly injured. At some points in a high speed chase, the motorcylist may have full control of his vehicle (as on straightaways where traffic is absent). But as soon as he gets into traffic, everyone there is at huge risk.

Question is why ? Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ? Shouldn't we take action to protect the public, and if the motorcycle criminal fool dies, from being shot, wouldn't that cop who shot him have done us all a favor ? (other than the guy who has to come along and clean up the mess)

I say blast him.

Pre-emptive execution, without due process huh? Let me guess, you voted for Cheney.

Wrong. I voted for Virgil Goode.

EARTH TO DUNE: Law enforcement is like being in a war. In both, the # 1 issue is SELF-DEFENSE. In a war, you don't offer a soldier on a battlefield due process of law. Cops who are up against armed criminals don't say "I can't shoot you because you haven't had due process yet."

If they did say that, they'd be dead, right then and there > just like motorists sharing roads with reckless speeding motorcyclists.

YOur comparison is still lacking evidence.

You have not produced one link that shows speeding motorcyclists have killed any vehicle driver or passenger. And to allow the cops to execute the biker, it needs to be a common enough occurance to be considered an expected consequence of high speed riding. You have not shown it to happen at all, let alone be a common consequence.

 

[WinterBorn]

Sure. Here is the information >> http://www.usmessageboard.com/law-a...s-in-high-speed-chases-be-shot-by-police.html

Now you may answer this question, or CONTINUE the defeat you've BEEN accepting for days now >>

"Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ? "

Surely you realise that police are not allowed to shoot from moving vehicles right? Or are you ignorant even of that fact?

That is IRRELEVANT to the OP, which is a PROPOSAL, get it ? As in a request for legislation (if necessary)

And without evidence that the speeding motorcyclist would commonly cause death in the other vehicles, the question in the OP is irrelevant.

 

[WinterBorn]

He is a Grade A kookburger with delusions of adequacy.

LOL! Yeah, he certainly has been busy. The list of things he bring to the table to chase a girl was funny.

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Yeah, I saw all that. Rock musician, bluegrass musician, writer, poet, painter, ect ect ect. Quite smoking, gave up salt ect ect. It was amusingly complete.

And, of course, everyone believes you.

 

[WinterBorn]

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Oh yeah, they just can't wait to get their hands on your sagging flabby ass. Or maybe it's all that hair (growing out of your ears). When you wake up from your fantasy, we're still waiting for you to make your case for premeditated murder of motorcyclists for what they "might" do.

No you're not. You couldn't be that dumb. And you couldn't be dumb enough to expect me to believe that yo think something as stupid as that. And hey, wasn't that you who was saying I couldn't be 68 ? And that I'm really just 16 or something like that ?
So now your think I'm old, huh ? One day you say one thing. Another day you say the opposite. What's the matter ? Too much weed ? Too much brush fire smoke ? Too many earthquakes ? Too much smog ?

No, just too much dancing around the topic.

But until you do provide evidence that the motorcyclist is jeopardizing anyone's life but their own, your question in the OP is irrelevant.

 

[S.J.]

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Oh yeah, they just can't wait to get their hands on your sagging flabby ass. Or maybe it's all that hair (growing out of your ears). When you wake up from your fantasy, we're still waiting for you to make your case for premeditated murder of motorcyclists for what they "might" do.

No you're not. You couldn't be that dumb. And you couldn't be dumb enough to expect me to believe that yo think something as stupid as that. And hey, wasn't that you who was saying I couldn't be 68 ? And that I'm really just 16 or something like that ?
So now your think I'm old, huh ? One day you say one thing. Another day you say the opposite. What's the matter ? Too much weed ? Too much brush fire smoke ? Too many earthquakes ? Too much smog ?

Why are you afraid to address the topic of your own thread? Did you realize how stupid your idea is?

 

[protectionist]

Looks like WinterBorn still has his full time job here, so he thinks (even though the thread finished a few pages ago when he et al refused to answer the OP question, and instead keeps pretending that there's some doubt about speeding, reckless motorcyclists endangering motorists)

"Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ?"

EARTH TO ALL YOU PRETENDERS: There's no doubt about it. It doesn't need any confirmation. Only thing you need to confirm it, IS A BRAIN. LOL.

I told you all a few posts ago, the thread is over. You couldn't/wouldn't, and failed to answer the question. That's all there is to it. Bye.

 

[protectionist]

If speeding motorcycles caused the deaths of drivers of cars & trucks, you should be able to find some evidence of it. To be unable to do so means it does not happen with enough regularity to make the assumption that any speeding motorcycle is an imminent danger. Therefore you have no case for executing the bikers.

As for my hairstyle, that was obviously just an aside for you. You intentionally diverted away from the topic. No problem. I understand why. As for your proclamation that it is unsexy, I think you claiming to know what is sexy to everyone is rather ludicrous.

I have actually fished off the piers in St. Pete. I worked in Tampa and Sarasota for several years when Verizon was doing the big fiber build. While I was there I made friends with a guy in Venice who has a nice boat. That makes for great fishing.

I actually caught more fish off the piers than boats I went out in . Piers are great fish attracters at middle tides.

As for the evidence of speeding motorcycles causing the deaths of drivers of cars & trucks,....able, should, and did. ANd you're straying off topic. The TOPIC isn't a "case for executing the bikers", the topic is a case for not executing the other motorists on the road who are driving properly, which, incidentally besides car and trucks, could also be other motorcylists as well.

Straying off topic?? Really? YOu can actually post that with a straight face?

How is my cigar on topic? How is my facial hair on topic? And yet, you posted several times on them.

The topic is your question from the OP. "Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ?".

But unless you can show that speeding motorcycles are actually jeopardizing other driver's lives, the question is worthless.

YOU KNOW that they are jeopardizing other driver's lives. I mean you're not an idiot are you ? And if you can't (or won't) see ? Not My Problem.

 

[protectionist]

Yes, riding a motorcycle can be dangerous. No one has denied that the biker is open to injury & death. But you would be hard pressed to make a case for shooting a speeding motorcyclist to save his life.

Still nothing showing it jeopardizes the lives of those in cars.

Nobody said anything about "shooting a speeding motorcyclist to save his life" until you here, now. The lives I'm interested in, are those of the innocent, and responsible other drivers on the roads. How anybody could not see how a reckless, speeding motorcyclist jeopardizes the lives of those in cars (or trucks or other motorcycles as well) is really quite amazing. Just the first one of the Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California quotes you quoted alone, sums it up.

The link to the MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT CAUSE FACTORS AND
IDENTIFICATION OF COUNTERMEASURES, VOLUME I: TECHNICAL REPORT showed me a very boring report that basically states that the main cause of motorcycle accidents is failure to yield by other motorists.

That's a lie!

 

[protectionist]

Pre-emptive execution, without due process huh? Let me guess, you voted for Cheney.

Wrong. I voted for Virgil Goode.

EARTH TO DUNE: Law enforcement is like being in a war. In both, the # 1 issue is SELF-DEFENSE. In a war, you don't offer a soldier on a battlefield due process of law. Cops who are up against armed criminals don't say "I can't shoot you because you haven't had due process yet."

If they did say that, they'd be dead, right then and there > just like motorists sharing roads with reckless speeding motorcyclists.

YOur comparison is still lacking evidence.

You have not produced one link that shows speeding motorcyclists have killed any vehicle driver or passenger. And to allow the cops to execute the biker, it needs to be a common enough occurance to be considered an expected consequence of high speed riding. You have not shown it to happen at all, let alone be a common consequence.

I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW IT. It's UNDERSTOOD. If you're unable....Not My Problem.

 

[protectionist]

LOL! Yeah, he certainly has been busy. The list of things he bring to the table to chase a girl was funny.

I was a rock musician (and still am). They chase me.

Yeah, I saw all that. Rock musician, bluegrass musician, writer, poet, painter, ect ect ect. Quite smoking, gave up salt ect ect. It was amusingly complete.

And, of course, everyone believes you.

Doesn't really matter what they believe. Wanna see one of my poems ?

 

[protectionist]

Oh yeah, they just can't wait to get their hands on your sagging flabby ass. Or maybe it's all that hair (growing out of your ears). When you wake up from your fantasy, we're still waiting for you to make your case for premeditated murder of motorcyclists for what they "might" do.

No you're not. You couldn't be that dumb. And you couldn't be dumb enough to expect me to believe that yo think something as stupid as that. And hey, wasn't that you who was saying I couldn't be 68 ? And that I'm really just 16 or something like that ?
So now your think I'm old, huh ? One day you say one thing. Another day you say the opposite. What's the matter ? Too much weed ? Too much brush fire smoke ? Too many earthquakes ? Too much smog ?

Why are you afraid to address the topic of your own thread? Did you realize how stupid your idea is?

You're a motorcycle rider aren't you ? Bwa ha ha ha ha. (Burt Reynolds laugh)

http://oi44.tinypic.com/29apboi.jpg

 

[WinterBorn]

Looks like WinterBorn still has his full time job here, so he thinks (even though the thread finished a few pages ago when he et al refused to answer the OP question, and instead keeps pretending that there's some doubt about speeding, reckless motorcyclists endangering motorists)

"Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ?"

EARTH TO ALL YOU PRETENDERS: There's no doubt about it. It doesn't need any confirmation. Only thing you need to confirm it, IS A BRAIN. LOL.

I told you all a few posts ago, the thread is over. You couldn't/wouldn't, and failed to answer the question. That's all there is to it. Bye.

Yes, you have quit. We get that. You couldn't provide any evidence that any lives were actually put in danger by a speeding motorcyclist. We get that too.

And despite all your claims that it is common sense or whatever, not one of the dozen or so links you posted show speeding motorcycles being a danger to cars and trucks. Not a single one.

And yet, you still think your question is valid. lol

 

[WinterBorn]

I actually caught more fish off the piers than boats I went out in . Piers are great fish attracters at middle tides.

As for the evidence of speeding motorcycles causing the deaths of drivers of cars & trucks,....able, should, and did. ANd you're straying off topic. The TOPIC isn't a "case for executing the bikers", the topic is a case for not executing the other motorists on the road who are driving properly, which, incidentally besides car and trucks, could also be other motorcylists as well.

Straying off topic?? Really? YOu can actually post that with a straight face?

How is my cigar on topic? How is my facial hair on topic? And yet, you posted several times on them.

The topic is your question from the OP. "Why should law abiding drivers have their lives jeopardized, when they could be protected just by having the cops blast this loon right off his vehicle, when the chase encounters an open road, free of traffic ?".

But unless you can show that speeding motorcycles are actually jeopardizing other driver's lives, the question is worthless.

YOU KNOW that they are jeopardizing other driver's lives. I mean you're not an idiot are you ? And if you can't (or won't) see ? Not My Problem.

I see that you have no evidence to back your assertion. I see that when you cannot sway the argument with links showing nothing which backs your claim you want to quit the thread. And I see that you insist that everyone else quits when you do.

No, I am not stupid. But you are certainly a coward. You haven't got the balls to admit you have to case and that your question in the OP is based on nonsense.

 

[WinterBorn]

Wrong. I voted for Virgil Goode.

EARTH TO DUNE: Law enforcement is like being in a war. In both, the # 1 issue is SELF-DEFENSE. In a war, you don't offer a soldier on a battlefield due process of law. Cops who are up against armed criminals don't say "I can't shoot you because you haven't had due process yet."

If they did say that, they'd be dead, right then and there > just like motorists sharing roads with reckless speeding motorcyclists.

YOur comparison is still lacking evidence.

You have not produced one link that shows speeding motorcyclists have killed any vehicle driver or passenger. And to allow the cops to execute the biker, it needs to be a common enough occurance to be considered an expected consequence of high speed riding. You have not shown it to happen at all, let alone be a common consequence.

I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW IT. It's UNDERSTOOD. If you're unable....Not My Problem.

No, you don't have to show it. You can just quit the argument.

But if you want to have any credibility, you will show evidence to back your claim. If you cannot find any evidence, that might be because it doesn't exist. And it might not exist because, despite your insistence, it isn't true.

You have made a claim. It is up to you to provide evidence backing your claim. It is how a debate works.

 

[WinterBorn]

Nobody said anything about "shooting a speeding motorcyclist to save his life" until you here, now. The lives I'm interested in, are those of the innocent, and responsible other drivers on the roads. How anybody could not see how a reckless, speeding motorcyclist jeopardizes the lives of those in cars (or trucks or other motorcycles as well) is really quite amazing. Just the first one of the Traffic Safety Center, University of Southern California quotes you quoted alone, sums it up.

The link to the MOTORCYCLE ACCIDENT CAUSE FACTORS AND
IDENTIFICATION OF COUNTERMEASURES, VOLUME I: TECHNICAL REPORT showed me a very boring report that basically states that the main cause of motorcycle accidents is failure to yield by other motorists.

That's a lie!

Is it? I think this shows that you, once again, did not read your own links.

From page 6 of the report:

"Research Findinqs. The most common motorcycle accident involves another vehicle
causing the collision by violating the right-of-way of the motorcycle at an inter-
section, usually by turning left in front of the oncoming motorcycle because the car
driver did not see the motorcycle."


That is a direct Cut & Paste from your link. So it is not a lie. The assumption that you make to form your question in the OP is a lie. And you are, by definition, a liar for continuing to press it as legitimate.