Should doctors operate on intersex babies?

[Samuel Nixon]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

 

[September]

Androgyny and hermaphroditism should be accepted and celebrated as yet another reason why humanity can be so... beautiful. Those who possess it should embrace it as a strength... rather than a weakness, as some would have them believe it to be.​

 

[strollingbones]

they should wait and let the child decide...the criteria for it now.....will the child be able to urinate standing up....really that is how its done...if the penis is small off it goes...and the child becomes a 'girl' now a lot of times....said child develops mentally and is a boy.....people should wait...

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child. Cause the doctor is a scientist who rests on the biological facts about the physical qualities and the genes of a child. So he can choose better.
I'm sure that the humanity will realize soon that the transgenders must be healed, not accepted. Cause a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have. It's not the society, it's mother nature to decide.

What do you think about that?

First of all, how can you take the position that the surgeon should decide in light of the information in the article that you yourself posted? Did you read it? The current trend in the medical and mental health field is to NOT do surgery until puberty when the person can make an informed decision.

Surgeons are scientists but they are not infallible and we have much too still learn about gender identity. Secondly, a growing number of interesexuals are choosing NOT to have any surgery or other treatments and are content to live with not being clearly male or female. They have that right and anybody who has a problem with it is going to just have to get over it like they have to get over the gay rights issue

Secondly, your reference to transgender-saying that it must be healed and not accepted- make little sense. Acceptance is the healing, the healing for gender dysphoria, , whatever the cause being biological ( intersexuality) or psychological ( the more usual understanding of transgender)

Lastly, your statement that “a human must have that gender which his biology tells him to have” is flawed on two levels. One, all of the biological factors that relate to gender identity are not always apparent in a pre-pubescent, and two it does not take into account the psychological aspects of gender identity.

I think that you need to give this all more thought.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

they should wait and let the child decide...the criteria for it now.....will the child be able to urinate standing up....really that is how its done...if the penis is small off it goes...and the child becomes a 'girl' now a lot of times....said child develops mentally and is a boy.....people should wait...

Hmmmmm. I'm a 68 year old man.....all man all my life and I pee sitting down( Never had a good aim ) I don't think that they made a mistake in not lobbing off my dick as a child.

 

[midcan5]

People forget the sad case of David Reimer.

 

[strollingbones]

the canadian boy in the rolling stones?

 

[strollingbones]

as a Canadian man born biologically male but raised female following medical advice and intervention after his penis was accidentally destroyed during a botched circumcision in infancy.[1]

Psychologist John Money oversaw the case and reported the reassignment as successful and as evidence that gender identity is primarily learned. Academic sexologist Milton Diamond later reported that Reimer failed to identify as female since the age of 9 to 11,[2] and transitioned to living as a male at age 15. Well known in medical circles for years anonymously as the "John/Joan" case, Reimer later went public with his story to help discourage similar medical practices. He later committed suicide after suffering years of severe depression, financial instability, and a troubled marriage.[3]

David Reimer - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

that was even worse.....a doctors fuck up and then the cover up

 

[Luddly Neddite]

“You have to remember, there are things we know now in medicine that we may not have known then,” Woolwine said. “Hindsight is always 20/20.”

We're still in the Dark Ages about gender identity. People still think its a choice and all about bathrooms. The David Reimer case should make us all reconsider our opinions and, I would hope, treat each other with dignity and respect.

 

[strollingbones]

i think the problem is lack of knowing what is being dealt with...sure the parents are in turmoil..who would not be..and the doctors are all about making the parents happy....giving them a child with a known sex etc.....now parents arent as freaked out and are willing to wait...there are a lot of excuses to do it early....its a harder surgrey later in life...but you cannot change the make up of the brain...our largest sexual organ

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

It’s interesting how the issues of transgender and intersexuality seem to be coming to the forefront just as the debate on same sex marriage is winding down –at least to the extent that has been settled by the court. Or has it been? The majority opinion stated-in effect-that same sex couples have the right to marriage in accordance with the same laws and parameters as opposite sex couples. Hmmm. But where does that leave those intersexual people who refuse to clearly identify as a male or female? They are still rare but growing in numbers. The issue of marriage is sure to come up and open another whole nest of worms. Perhaps it is time to move past the concept of gender altogether when it comes to who can marry who. Here is something that I wrote a while back:

A Future History Lesson by The Progressive Patriot 5.7.14

While people continue to wring their hands and agonize over same sex marriage, I thought that I would offer some thoughts about what might lie ahead and what we might do to smooth the way. We must realize that down the road anything can happen. Any number of issues, foreseen or not can arise. I frequently rail against slippery slope predictions-such as plural marriage- that are injected into the same sex marriage debate. However, I do so not because I dismiss the possibility that a redefinition of marriage now, can lead to other changes later. Nor am I voicing a moral objection. Rather, I believe that we must deal with further change at the right time, learn from history, and be smarter going forward in order to avoid, or at least minimize the anguish that has plagued the gay marriage debate. I believe that we first have to deal with marriage equality in the here and now and new issues as they arise, spontaneously, in the future. Here is a time line of how it might all play out:

2015: While the debate over same sex marriage continues and more states allow it, intersexual people, those who are not clearly male or female are revealing themselves and begin to assert their rights. In a state that does not recognize same sex marriage, a couple applies for a marriage license. One of them, who wants to marry a male, has the biological and chromosomal characteristic of both a male and a female. This person has an androgynous name and appearance and refuses to identify as male or female. In fact many government forms that ask for “gender” have an option for “other” which this person chooses. The license request is rejected on the basis of marriage still being between a man and a woman.

2015: Later that year, SCOTUS has ruled that same sex people have the same right to marry as heterosexuals in accordance with the same laws and restrictions that govern opposite sex marriage. States that refused to legislate it are now forced by federal courts to allow it. However, there is still the matter of intersexual people. Is he/she / whatever the same or opposite sex as his/her partner. Where do they fit in? Even now that same sex marriage is legal, with the court having found that discrimination against same sex couples is unconstitutional, intersexual people may fall between the cracks. They may not be exactly the same sex, nor the opposite sex of their partner. It’s a gray area, and many jurisdictions are unsure of how to deal with it. Furthermore, while gays and same sex marriage is generally accepted, inter-sexuals are regarded as freaks and are being denied other rights as well.

2020: The concept of polyamory-or group marriage, which has been around a while, is gaining in popularity. A heterosexual couple applies for a marriage license to marry another heterosexual couple. At the same time, another couple consisting of a man and a bi sexual woman seek to marry another bi sexual woman. Both applications are rejected and a long and arduous national debate and many court cases ensues. Meanwhile the issue concerning that intersexual situation rages on with some states refusing to be more inclusive.

2025: Inter-sexual people have become rather vocal and militant in demanding rights. More and more of them are choosing to live openly rather than in the closet- pretending to be exclusively male or female. Some, including gays, are accusing them of being bullies in demanding the same rights as “normal’ people, i.e. male or female/ gay or straight. As a result of the relentless pushing of the intersexual agenda, some states are changing their laws to include them while others are seeking to ban marriages that include any person who is not clearly male or female. There are also a number of lawsuits pending in state and federal courts.

2030: Group marriage among heterosexual’s gains more popular and acceptance, and some states, through legislation or court rulings, are beginning to allow it. Courts find that there is no rational basis for states to deny these marriages. However, all of the cases to date were brought by heterosexual couples who argued that large families of men and women are in keeping with tradition and create the most efficient and efficacious environment for children . They begin to win in court but ruling were narrowly tailored to only include married heterosexual couples or singles marrying other married heterosexual couples or singles. Gays and intersexual people are left out in the cold.

Almost immediately, gay couples are taking notice. They want “equality” –the ability to marry other gay couples and gay singles. More years of debate and legal maneuvering ensue. Rulings go constantly against gay couples. The basis for these rulings is concern for children. While it has been established by this time that gay parenting by a couple does not harm children, studies have emerged-sponsored by the Family Research Council which now supports heterosexual group marriage- that show that a child’s exposure to more than two gay parent figures at a time is in fact harmful, and that is the basis for opposing group marriage for gays. Meanwhile the issue of intersexual people is still unresolved.

2035: The SCOTUS finally decides that marriage is between any two consenting adults solving the problem of what to do about intersexual people. However, group marriage involving gay married couples still is a divisive issue. Furthermore, groups of people-married and single- of different gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity are seeking the right to marry and further complicating the issue.

2040: SCOTUS determines that marriage is a universal natural right and that everyone –including intersexuals haves the right to marry as many people as they wish. There is no rational basis or compelling government reason for restricting marriage at all.

Could the road to 2040 have been less arduous? It would have helped if the issue of same sex marriage as it is before us today was resolved sooner, before other alternative lifestyles came to the fore. Even now, the waters are being muddied by those who bring up plural marriage as an invented issue. It can only get worse if it becomes a real issue before the current debate is laid to rest. I will add, that to push the envelope on issues before their time serves no one’s interest, but we must be prepared to address them at the appropriate time in history and cultural evolution. And in dealing with those future issues, it is important that we build on the lessons that were hopefully learned from the earlier matters. However, that will only happen if we can get over the moronic, puritanical and ridged positions that we hold and think more about what actually makes sense and what’s important and relevant in the current cultural and legal environment.

2045: All is well. The angst of the culture wars is a fading memory. Marital bliss for all. But wait! Farmer Brown in Montana wants to marry his flock of sheep. That same year, space aliens who have been living among us for centuries reveal themselves to us. Young people are fascinated by them and “hooking up” and marrying them becomes a fast moving fad. However, marriage is only for and among humans. The fight begins anew. Pat Robertson literally turns in his grave and Michelle Bachman, now 92, comes out of retirement and teams up with Rick Perry 95 and Rick Santorum 93, to start a clinic to cure people of wanting to have sex with aliens, legal or other wise. At the same time, congressional Republicans introduce a constitutional amendment against (space) alien marriage and adopt a party platform to encourage them to self deport. Pope Francis II says “Maybe civil unions”

2048- Republican Presidential candidate Senator William Paul, son of former Kentucky Senator Rand Paul, stated in a speech today that "If not for Republican and conservative support for gay rights, Democrats and liberals would have prevented gay couples from enjoying full rights and benefits of marriage."

 

[strollingbones]

its funny you think this is just coming about...where as the debate on intra sexed and how to deal with the children has been raging for some time...perhaps it is more an issue of your ignorance of the subject has come to the fore front....

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

its funny you think this is just coming about...where as the debate on intra sexed and how to deal with the children has been raging for some time...perhaps it is more an issue of your ignorance of the subject has come to the fore front....

Why are you attacking me as being ignorant? I didn't say that it was a whole new thing, but rather, there seems to be a lot more awareness od it, in general now.

We do not seem to be at odds on the subject so lighten up, bud.

 

[Katzndogz]

Intersex, is a birth defect and is exceedingly rare.

 

[Iceweasel]

Somebody needs to do a little research. Transgendered and hermophodites aren't the same thing.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

M.C. was born with ambiguous genitalia, a rare condition that doctors addressed with surgery. Now, in a landmark lawsuit, M.C.’s parents are challenging the medical mainstream: Why does a surgeon decide what sex a child should be?

Born In Between When A Newborn s Sex Is In Question Why Do Doctors Get To Decide

My opinion is that a surgeon has a right to decide a sex for a child.

Nonsense. And If at all possible, wait until the child decides. They'll let you know, and they may be fine the way things are.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Intersex, is a birth defect and is exceedingly rare.

Not that rare actually.

 

[strollingbones]

How common is intersex Intersex Society of North America

 

[strollingbones]

since it can range from a highly notice able condition to hidden to adult hood.....there is a wide range of this

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Intersex, is a birth defect and is exceedingly rare.

How is assigning a label to them helpful to this important discussion? We could just as well say that it is "variation" on human sexual physiology. However, these are just words. It does not change the fact that these are real people who struggles with the issue and we must be sensitive to that. We could write them off as defective freaks and marginalize them, or we can try to better understand them and learn more about how to respond to it medically , socially and psychologically so as they can become productive and well adjusted members of society. What do you honestly think that the appropriate approach and response should be in an advanced society?

As for rare. Perhaps? But it' s not really that rare and there may be many cases that go undiagnosed because there are no outward signs of intersexuality. It also is found among other species. I have an intersexual cat. Yes I do. Fortunately, she is allowed to just be a cat and does not have to deal with ignorance and bigotry like humans do. In any case, just because it may be rare, it does not mean that we do not have to deal with it.