Should deported veterans be allowed to return to US?

[Ray From Cleveland]

Of course it does, you think someone who has sacrificed their life in war is not more Patriotic than someone who has never served. Because you don't adhere to the premises of white supremacy doesn't mean you are anti-American.

Not everybody in the military sees any war. In fact a lot do not. My neighbor signed up during the Vietnam war because he wanted to fight. Never seen any action. He spent most of his four years in Europe. You don't think I have family that were in the military? The only one who came close to being in a war was my cousins son. They armed him with a camera when he went to Iraq. He was a photographer.

It is irrelevant why the joined, the fact is they made the sacrifice that you didn't and yes that makes them a Patriot over someone who just hugs a flag and claims they are a Patriot. Action speaks louder than words.

So you think Timothy McVehigh is a patriot instead of a domestic terrorist that plotted against our country and killed fellow innocent Americans, huh?

Saying that somebody who joined the military for the benefits only is like saying the gay guy who married the old rich widow did so out of his dire love.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Of course it does, you think someone who has sacrificed their life in war is not more Patriotic than someone who has never served. Because you don't adhere to the premises of white supremacy doesn't mean you are anti-American.

Not everybody in the military sees any war. In fact a lot do not. My neighbor signed up during the Vietnam war because he wanted to fight. Never seen any action. He spent most of his four years in Europe.

Irrelevant because anything can pop off at anytime. I remember during the first Gulf War all of the National Guard folks who were activated and sent to war.

You don't think I have family that were in the military? The only one who came close to being in a war was my cousins son. They armed him with a camera when he went to Iraq. He was a photographer.

Irrelevant, he also carried a weapon. What does that have to do with you..

irrelevant why the joined, the fact is they made the sacrifice that you didn't and yes that makes them a Patriot over someone who just hugs a flag and claims they are a Patriot. Action speaks louder than words.

So you think Timothy McVehigh is a patriot instead of a domestic terrorist that plotted against our country and killed fellow innocent Americans, huh?

I think.he was a terrorist and lost the label of a Patriot when he committed a terrorist act.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Irrelevant, he also carried a weapon. What does that have to do with you..

It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with your false notion that everybody who joins the military went to war thus making them more of a patriot than those who didn't.

I think.he was a terrorist and lost the label of a Patriot when he committed a terrorist act.

In other words most Americans who did not join the military were more of patriots than he was.

 

[Superbadbrutha]

Irrelevant, he also carried a weapon. What does that have to do with you..

[Quoye]It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with your false notion that everybody who joins the military went to war thus making them more of a patriot than those who didn't.

[/QUOTE]

Where did I claim everyone in the military went to war? They have made a sacrifice that you were not willing to make.

I think.he was a terrorist and lost the label of a Patriot when he committed a terrorist act.

In other words most Americans who did not join the military were more of patriots than he was.

Unless they have acted in a terrorist act, but most folks in the military or who have served don't commit terrorist acts. So yes they are more Patriotic than you.

 

[badger2]

The definition calls for the person to defend their country. To defend the country one must join the Military. So how Patriotic can you be having never served?

Another part is defending their nations interests. Those are determined by the will of the people. The people give their voice to the interests.

Their voice is used to choose a Political Leader. That leader decides what those interests are. If the people disagree a new leader is chosen.

A Patriot accepts that. A Patriot defends the rights of the people to make that choice. A Patriot knows it is our freedom to choose that makes us special.

From your link:

a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

Yes, defending the country which is done in more ways than one. In fact we have people in USMB that defend this country all the time when outsiders lay criticism on us. So I stand by my earlier statement, just because one served in the military does not make them anymore of a patriot than somebody that didn't serve.

Yes. You are just as much of a hero as those who were wounded in the military. I mean don’t they understand how courageous you are risking Carpel Tunnel? I mean sure they risked life and limb. But Carpel Tunnel is really painful.

View attachment 509496

You’re an arrogant cocksucker, and not that bright. Theologians and politicians, along with god, hover over the battle field and masturbate watching the carnage with impunity. Your definition of patriot is warped, because it requires the more libidinal types to prove their manhood in a particular way, while the puppetmasters controlling the war-as-racket show slip the noose.

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

The Biden administration on Friday announced it is formalizing a new process to allow immigrants who served in the U.S. military and were later deported to return to the country legally.

Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas ordered the nation's immigration agencies to craft a "rigorous, systematic approach" to review the cases of immigrants whose deportations "failed to live up to our highest values."

"Together with our partner the Department of Veterans Affairs, we are committed to bringing back military service members, veterans, and their immediate family members who were unjustly removed and ensuring they receive the benefits to which they may be entitled," Mayorkas said in a statement. "Today we are taking important steps to make that a reality."

Biden administration unveils process to allow deported veterans to return to the U.S.

The Department of Homeland Security said it would review cases of immigrants whose deportations "failed to live up to our highest values."

www.cbsnews.com

So not only did these people illegally get into the country, they also illegally got into our military as well. Not only does Dementia want to bring them back into the country, but restore all their military benefits.

I'm all behind our veterans and any benefits they can get, but I'm against veterans who weren't supposed to be here in the first place. The people they deport are usually illegals that got involved in some sort of criminal activity, and shouldn't be getting a free pass simply because also illegally served.

Serving in the military is a legal path to becoming a citizen. They know about your status when you go through the process of joining. I have no issue with this as long as they separated from the military under honorable conditions and haven't committed a felony, but the government needs to take care of the 100,000's of backlogged claims first before dealing with this issue.

 

[badger2]

The Biden administration on Friday announced it is formalizing a new process to allow immigrants who served in the U.S. military and were later deported to return to the country legally.

Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas ordered the nation's immigration agencies to craft a "rigorous, systematic approach" to review the cases of immigrants whose deportations "failed to live up to our highest values."

"Together with our partner the Department of Veterans Affairs, we are committed to bringing back military service members, veterans, and their immediate family members who were unjustly removed and ensuring they receive the benefits to which they may be entitled," Mayorkas said in a statement. "Today we are taking important steps to make that a reality."

Biden administration unveils process to allow deported veterans to return to the U.S.

The Department of Homeland Security said it would review cases of immigrants whose deportations "failed to live up to our highest values."

www.cbsnews.com

So not only did these people illegally get into the country, they also illegally got into our military as well. Not only does Dementia want to bring them back into the country, but restore all their military benefits.

I'm all behind our veterans and any benefits they can get, but I'm against veterans who weren't supposed to be here in the first place. The people they deport are usually illegals that got involved in some sort of criminal activity, and shouldn't be getting a free pass simply because also illegally served.

Serving in the military is a legal path to becoming a citizen. They know about your status when you go through the process of joining. I have no issue with this as long as they separated from the military under honorable conditions and haven't committed a felony, but the government needs to take care of the 100,000's of backlogged claims first before dealing with this issue.

Dig deeper, Dipshit. There have been U.S. Army veterans who cannot vote because they have no address. States require (all states?) proof of residence before obtaining an ID. Tell us all about the pathology, Einstein. Are you or are you not American-born? Well, are you, Cocksucker?

 

[SavannahMann]

McVeigh was a Patriot because he served. McVeigh was a mass murdering idiot because he saw his government as the enemy.

The question is what are you willing to risk for your beliefs? What are you willing to risk to defend your nation? McVeigh at least was willing to risk his life to defend this nation. That is true if everyone who signed the dotted line and swore the oath

What do you risk? Hiding behind a user name and blathering on about how you know what patriotism is? The people who signed the Declaration of Independence risked their lives. They ended up broke or dead for the most part to buy your freedom.

Friends of mine died in Iraq in 91. They put their lives on the line. The people who didn’t die endured discomfort that would have you screaming in fury.

Families endured fear that their loved ones wouldn’t come home. Their nightmare was a car pulling up outside to tell them their Patriot was dead. Or if they were lucky maimed for the rest of their lives.

You whip out McVeigh the Mass Murdering idiot. He was willing to risk death to stroke a blow at his Government for murdering people at Waco and Ruby Ridge. He went to his death unrepentant.

Now. I think he was a Mass Murdering idiot. But I respect his dedication to his beliefs.

What do you risk? A sore back sitting and tapping on your keyboard? Carpel Tunnel?

I love you guys. The kind who would have joined except. You guys are willing to sacrifice as many other people as needed to get what you want.

Patrick Tillman left the cushy life and put it on the line. What did you do? Paul Smith put himself between the enemy and his fellow soldiers. What did you do?

Jose Jimenez, you can find his name in Washington. On the Vietnam Memorial. He put it on the line so you could blather about whatever you wanted to.

You have never felt the shadow of a patriotic urge in your life. You have never loved your fellow Countrymen so much you were willing to risk your own life snd limb to protect them.

Then you denigrate and insult those who do. When are you going to the airport to spit on the troops? The minorities. The Liberals. The subhumans you detest.

You have the right of freedom of speech and I will always argue that you have the right. You can even call yourself a Patriot. But you aren’t one. Watch your war movies and laugh as the minorities are killed. Watch your documentaries and tell yourself that you could have done better. You would have made Audie Murphy look like a sissy. Tell yourself that you had better things to do. Or you had flat feet.

But you didn’t risk. You never put your life on the line. Tim McVeigh was willing to die for his beliefs. Dorner was willing to die for his beliefs. What are you risking? Or is risk for suckers?

Make sure you stretch your back. We wouldn’t want you to get a cramp while denouncing the troops who served.

McVeigh was not a patriot. How is one a patriot when he attacked a government building, killing innocent people and children for his radical views? I don't care if he served in the military. He was a criminal and was properly executed for plotting against the US government. He was a certified terrorist, and just about any American who didn't serve was more of a patriot than he was.

He was a criminal. You could say he was a Terrorist. He was executed. And I have no heartburn with any of that. The execution was well earned.

But McVeigh and millions more like him did more than you ever will. They placed their own bodies between the danger. And you.

You wouldn’t risk a broken nail for anyone. Especially not minorities. Whereas they risked their lives for you. That makes them better than you.

In fact. The Government had to pass a special law to prevent McVeigh’s family from getting a flag. He was otherwise entitled to a military funeral.

Fellow Veterans got a flag and sent it to McVeigh’s father on their own. In their opinion. His crime was horrendous. But he served and left the Military with honor. What he did later should not have any bearing on his service.

It didn’t cost much. But the symbol was important to them.

Think about that for a moment. The worst terrorist attack by an American Citizen and Vets still stood by him for his service. You see they believe McVeigh earned his death. He earned the execution he received. But he also earned the honors that went with his service.

A young woman died a couple months ago at Fort Bragg. She died in training. An accident.

Fort Bragg IDs Paratrooper Who Died During Static-Line Jump

A Fort Bragg soldier who died during airborne training Monday has been identified as 21-year-old Spc. Abigail Jenks.

www.military.com

It isn’t the first training accident. And it won’t be the last. But here is the thing that you will never get. She was more of a man than you were. She loved this nation. Her nation. More than you will ever imagine experiencing. She was more of a man than you will ever be.

A friend of mine survived the war and got a medical discharge for injuries received in a jump accident. He bought a piece of the farm. He is in pain every day.

Every single person who signed up knew that was a possibility. They accepted the risks. Death. Disability. Pain. We all knew it was possible. We all wrote letters and set them aside. To comfort our families in case the worst happened.

You didn’t. You didn’t sign on and accept the danger. No you were focused on making money. That was important.

McVeigh is a mass murdering asshole. He is also a Vet who risked his life. Neither one cancels out the other. Just as you might be good at something. But it doesn’t cancel out that you are a loud mouthed bigot. Just as your bigotry doesn’t cancel out whatever you are good at.

You have the right under the constitution to be an opinionated asshole. And you exercise that right with vigor. But that right was purchased. Purchased by the Veterans who you disrespect. Purchased by the men and women you disdain. The minorities you despise. The non citizens who still signed up to defend their new nation. They love America more than you ever have or will.

You are no Patriot.

 

[SavannahMann]

The definition calls for the person to defend their country. To defend the country one must join the Military. So how Patriotic can you be having never served?

Another part is defending their nations interests. Those are determined by the will of the people. The people give their voice to the interests.

Their voice is used to choose a Political Leader. That leader decides what those interests are. If the people disagree a new leader is chosen.

A Patriot accepts that. A Patriot defends the rights of the people to make that choice. A Patriot knows it is our freedom to choose that makes us special.

From your link:

a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.

Yes, defending the country which is done in more ways than one. In fact we have people in USMB that defend this country all the time when outsiders lay criticism on us. So I stand by my earlier statement, just because one served in the military does not make them anymore of a patriot than somebody that didn't serve.

Yes. You are just as much of a hero as those who were wounded in the military. I mean don’t they understand how courageous you are risking Carpel Tunnel? I mean sure they risked life and limb. But Carpel Tunnel is really painful.

View attachment 509496

You’re an arrogant cocksucker, and not that bright. Theologians and politicians, along with god, hover over the battle field and masturbate watching the carnage with impunity. Your definition of patriot is warped, because it requires the more libidinal types to prove their manhood in a particular way, while the puppetmasters controlling the war-as-racket show slip the noose.

Not at all. For every Infantryman there are ten people in support. You don’t have to go slug it out with the enemy as an infantryman to be a Patriot. But you have to be willing to put yourself on the line.

Supply trucks driven by people who are Army Truck Drivers are in danger. They serve. Enduring that which most of you call intolerable.

Warehouse people are in supply. Driving forklifts and loading trucks. They are way more patriotic than Ray.

The Chaplains Assistant is a Patriot.

The clerk who typed up admin information is a Patriot. Way more of one than Ray.

Ray believes he is more patriotic than any of those people. Especially the minorities.

Such beliefs are not patriotic. Such beliefs are an abomination in our country. A Patriot defends the Constitution. And that means the Amendments that all our citizens will have rights equally.

Search for it. You can’t find that from Ray. He has lots of examples about how some Americans are better. And they are all Whites. The Minorities are always inferior.

Ray is no Patriot. He is barely a man. And certainly unworthy to compare himself to those who served.

 

[DigitalDrifter]

NO!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Ray believes he is more patriotic than any of those people. Especially the minorities.

If that's what I believe, you will have no problem with quoting my post saying that and provide the post number you liar.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

But McVeigh and millions more like him did more than you ever will. They placed their own bodies between the danger. And you.

You wouldn’t risk a broken nail for anyone. Especially not minorities. Whereas they risked their lives for you. That makes them better than you.

In fact. The Government had to pass a special law to prevent McVeigh’s family from getting a flag. He was otherwise entitled to a military funeral.

Fellow Veterans got a flag and sent it to McVeigh’s father on their own. In their opinion. His crime was horrendous. But he served and left the Military with honor. What he did later should not have any bearing on his service.

So when did the conversation switch from people doing more than I did because they joined the military? I guess when you decided to, huh? My only point is that by joining the military does not make you any more or lesss of a patriot that somebody who did not, especially when you joined for personal benefit instead of love for the country. You posted the definition of patriotism, and nowhere did it say anything about joining the military, or degrees of patriotism. It described what a patriot is.

 

[Unkotare]

... joining the military does not make you any more or lesss of a patriot that somebody who did not,....

It's a pretty good indicator.

 

[Rigby5]

I don't often agree with the Biden administration but in this case the deported immigrants should be awarded citizenship if they served honorably in the U.S. armed forces.

Yes, then we will have ten million more people sneaking in to join the military to become automatic citizens after getting out. I thought the idea to stop illegal immigration was to put up a deterrent--not an invitation.

Again, you can not "sneak in" and then join the military. You have to come in legally somehow, like a green card.

 

[Rigby5]

But McVeigh and millions more like him did more than you ever will. They placed their own bodies between the danger. And you.

You wouldn’t risk a broken nail for anyone. Especially not minorities. Whereas they risked their lives for you. That makes them better than you.

In fact. The Government had to pass a special law to prevent McVeigh’s family from getting a flag. He was otherwise entitled to a military funeral.

Fellow Veterans got a flag and sent it to McVeigh’s father on their own. In their opinion. His crime was horrendous. But he served and left the Military with honor. What he did later should not have any bearing on his service.

So when did the conversation switch from people doing more than I did because they joined the military? I guess when you decided to, huh? My only point is that by joining the military does not make you any more or lesss of a patriot that somebody who did not, especially when you joined for personal benefit instead of love for the country. You posted the definition of patriotism, and nowhere did it say anything about joining the military, or degrees of patriotism. It described what a patriot is.

But the point is not about patriotism, whatever that is.
The point is that there is a contractual agreement that if you serve and follow the rules, you are supposed to be rewarded with citizenship. And the military is screwing up and deporting them anyway, in violation of the agreement. And the deported vet has no way to fight it.

{...
Q: Your report, “Immigrant Veterans: Deported by the Same Nation They Sacrificed to Defend,” cited Government Accountability Office data that showed at least 92 veterans were deported from 2013 to 2018, though the number could be much higher, and that Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials frequently did not follow their own policies when deporting veterans, including failing to review military service when initiating deportation proceedings. What stands out to you from your staff’s research?

A: People don’t even know that we are deporting veterans. I think most Americans assume that when somebody serves, they gain American citizenship. They don’t realize that we are actually deporting people who served honorably.

The other important thing is that there are executive orders, laws and policies on the books to give veterans their citizenship, but the [Department of Defense] and [U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services] have not been processing the paperwork. We have cases where veterans submitted paperwork with their unit thinking everything was done, and it was not. And they only find out about it when they’re being handed over to ICE.

Q: Your report puts blame on former President Donald Trump’s administration. Doesn’t this issue predate him? Did his administration make changes that exacerbated the problem?

A: One of the things President Trump did was starting to shut down the immigration stations [at military bases] that made it easier for people to process their citizenship status there. They also stopped honoring private bills. Senators used to be able to do a private bill that named one individual that prevented them from being deported. They stopped honoring those. And they stopped honoring the deal that DOD and [the Department of Homeland Security] had to not deport the family members of servicemen and women who were deployed overseas. They didn’t even know about that until I told them about it.

I asked DOD leadership, ‘Did you know ICE has stopped honoring this agreement?’ They had no idea. During the Trump administration, we had actually had folks who were in Iraq and Afghanistan whose spouse was detained by ICE and deported, and their kids were put into government care. Can you imagine being overseas and finding out your spouse has been picked up by ICE and now your children are being handed over to social services?
...}

Read about Tammy Duckworth and her goal.

Tammy Duckworth on Her Fight to Shield Veterans From Deportation

WASHINGTON — Sen. Tammy Duckworth, D-Ill., an Army veteran who lost her legs in the Iraq War, has been pushing hard in Congress in recent weeks to try to end the federal government’s practice of deporting undocumented immigrants who served honorably in the military. Duckworth, who was among the...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Serving in the military is a legal path to becoming a citizen. They know about your status when you go through the process of joining. I have no issue with this as long as they separated from the military under honorable conditions and haven't committed a felony, but the government needs to take care of the 100,000's of backlogged claims first before dealing with this issue.

The question is does serving in the military give you immunity from laws broken or crimes committed. At least according to Dementia, it does. If you are illegal or a green card holder and commit a crime, the punishment is deportation. Not only does Dementia want to stop that, he wants to summon all the veterans who paid for their crimes and bring them back to the US.

 

[Rigby5]

Irrelevant, he also carried a weapon. What does that have to do with you..

It has nothing to do with me. It has to do with your false notion that everybody who joins the military went to war thus making them more of a patriot than those who didn't.

I think.he was a terrorist and lost the label of a Patriot when he committed a terrorist act.

In other words most Americans who did not join the military were more of patriots than he was.

I disagree about McVeigh.
I think he was stupid and a screw up, but he sacrificed himself for what he believed in, and there is some truth to his point of view, which is that the federal government has illegally grown into a monster.
The BATF, DEA, TSA, and many federal government departments are totally illegal and should not exist at all.
If he could have found symbolic ways of drawing attention to that without harming innocent people, then he would have been a patriot.

Nor does the word "terrorist" mean anything anymore, since anyone who intimidates with forces is actually a terrorist.
That include the police when whey incarcerate bank robbers for 20 years in order to deter others from robbing banks.
The reality is that if we want the word to have a negative connotation, then we have to only use the word when the victims are innocent. And then the US military becomes the greatest terrorists in the world, since most of the people they attack are innocent, like Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Grenada, Panama, Vietnam, etc.

 

[Rigby5]

Serving in the military is a legal path to becoming a citizen. They know about your status when you go through the process of joining. I have no issue with this as long as they separated from the military under honorable conditions and haven't committed a felony, but the government needs to take care of the 100,000's of backlogged claims first before dealing with this issue.

The question is does serving in the military give you immunity from laws broken or crimes committed. At least according to Dementia, it does. If you are illegal or a green card holder and commit a crime, the punishment is deportation. Not only does Dementia want to stop that, he wants to summon all the veterans who paid for their crimes and bring them back to the US.

From what I read, it sounds different.
Duckworth cited an example where a veteran serving in Afghanistan had his family deported while he was in active duty. And no crimes were committed.
But of course I have no way of knowing if she is telling it right?

 

[Rigby5]

... joining the military does not make you any more or lesss of a patriot that somebody who did not,....

It's a pretty good indicator.

I don't know about that.
Most of the people I know who joined did so simply because they did not know what they wanted, and thought the military would give them either experience or training that would help them.
The only people who not come back disliking the military were those who never saw combat.
Since we have never been attacked since 1812, the US military is not set up along defensive goals, and instead uses brutal strategies, like forcibly relocating civilians to "strategic hamlet" and murdering civilians who refuse, with "free fire zones".
I don't see how a patriot could participate in the abuse of civilians like that?
To me a patriot is one who believes in ideals about individual rights, and you can't believe in that is you abuse the right of civilians in another country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

From what I read, it sounds different.
Duckworth cited an example where a veteran serving in Afghanistan had his family deported while he was in active duty. And no crimes were committed.
But of course I have no way of knowing if she is telling it right?

The last I read is our deportation policies were criminals and law breakers are first. We don't pick illegals out of a magic hat and deport them for no reason. Therefore it's only reasonable to assume these vets were deported because they committed some kind of infraction.