Should Cars Be Sold Directly to Consumers or via Dealerships? AZ, NJ & TX say NO!!!

[kaz]

It's a win, win? Tesla still gets to **** over the tax payers too!

First, there’s the $7500 taxback bonus that every buyer gets and every taxpayer pays. Then there are generous state subsidies ($2500 in California, $4000 in Illinois—the bluer the state, the more the taxpayers get gouged), all paid to people forking out $63K (plus taxes) for the base version, to roughly $100K for the really quick one.

Tesla didn’t generate a profit by selling sexy cars, but rather by selling sleazy emissions “credits,” mandated by the state of California’s electric vehicle requirements. The competition, like Honda, doesn’t have a mass market plug-in to meet the mandate and therefore must buy the credits from Tesla, the only company that does. The bill for last quarter was $68 million. Absent this shakedown of potential car buyers, Tesla would have lost $57 million, or $11,400 per car. As the company sold 5,000 cars in the quarter, though, $13,600 per car was paid by other manufacturers, who are going to pass at least some of that cost on to buyers of their products. Folks in the new car market are likely paying a bit more than simply the direct tax subsidy.

So when you look at all the stupid market manipulations that government does, how is it that at no point does it ever dawn on you that the problem is ... government?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla?s Direct Sales Model | TechCrunch

Should cars be sold directly to consumers, cutting out the mid-man (dealerships). It sounds very anti-capitalistic to say no, but dealerships provide many many high paying jobs: Salesman, Managers, Mechanics, Finance, Brokers, Marketing Exe, Buyers etc. Cutting out them, then you lose millions upon millions of jobs. Start the trend from direct from the manufacturer sales with one auto manufacturer and see it spread like the plague.

Normally I would be against such a move, but the job and industry ramifications and lose of another industry makes me think this isn't the worst move.

Of course, I want to support anything and everything Tesla does, because I believe they are starting the wave of the future, I also see the advantage in "forcing" the OEMs to use dealerships.

You see an advantage in making cars more expensive? For who?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's going to do the warranty service repairs?

Joe's Shade Tree House Of Repairs Of Phantom Problems?

I recall a Company called "General Motors" who went bankrupt try to change the way we bought cars when they first marketed the Saturn.

But I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Generic Motors makes junk. Always have, always will.

Saturn was a good idea. Problem was, it was Generic Motors that tried it and GM could **** up a one car funeral.

My first question....."Where do I take my car for service and how do I know they know what the **** they're doing?"

And, "Who trains the mechanics?"

I'm no friend of Dealers. Bunch of ******* thieves. But I wonder if this has been thought out.

Let me guess, you actually believe that dealerships can answer those questions better than non dealerships.

 

[rightwinger]

Who's going to do the warranty service repairs?

Joe's Shade Tree House Of Repairs Of Phantom Problems?

I recall a Company called "General Motors" who went bankrupt try to change the way we bought cars when they first marketed the Saturn.

But I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Generic Motors makes junk. Always have, always will.

Saturn was a good idea. Problem was, it was Generic Motors that tried it and GM could **** up a one car funeral.

My first question....."Where do I take my car for service and how do I know they know what the **** they're doing?"

And, "Who trains the mechanics?"

I'm no friend of Dealers. Bunch of ******* thieves. But I wonder if this has been thought out.

Let me guess, you actually believe that dealerships can answer those questions better than non dealerships.

Why not separate the service departments at dealerships from the sales department? Right now I can choose whether or not I want my car serviced at the dealership. Why can't I choose for sales?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you believe in a free market then the answer is yes. If you believe in protectionism and cronyism then the answer is no.

It would be no problem for Tesla to pick up existing Dealerships -- Anywhere.

You look at some of the Dealers who sell off-brands..... I don't know.... Peugot or whatever.... Maybe some of the Porsche or Lamborghini or Ferrari or Bugati... No; VW owns Bugati, so that's out...

But there's no problem with them picking up Dealers. I bet there's hundreds of Dealers countrywide that would LOVE to have Tesla on their lots.

You sell something without the ability to service it and the consumer protection portion of the various States is going to get a little suspicious.

And I don't blame them.

Tesla needs to play by the rules. They're not selling Pet Rocks on TV, they're selling Cars. And Cars carry human beings as passengers, some of them babies.

The problem is simple... Tesla wants to keep all the profit for themselves.

Why should they?

For the idiots who think the government and big business are always right, Tesla actually provides service for their vehicles at their showrooms, just like a dealer. What they don't do is let third party idiots ruin their reputation by providing shoddy customer service. No one I know has ever had a problem with a manufacturer honoring thier warranty on anything, yet they all have had problems getting third party dealers and vendors to do so. Why the **** do you think so many states have lemon laws?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have no problem with direct sales. If the dealerships are providing something that people are willing to pay for - they'll do just fine.

Where do you go when your $7,000 transmission takes a shit 20 days after you buy it?

Or how about when that $10,000 Battery catches fire?

And who stands behind the work?

Who will do the recall work and who stands behind that?

Who services the car for you? Like a revolutionary new car might need some specialized service....? Maybe...?

**** Tesla. They can play by the same rules everybody else plays by or they can go buh-bye.

We live in a Free Market Based Capitalist Society, not the Snake Oil salesman culture of the 19th Century.

You call Tesla, and they tow your car to the nearest store with a repair facility, even if you are in a different state from where you bought it.

On the other hand, if you bought it through a dealer, and are out of state, you call the local dealer, and they tell you they don't have the contract to service cars sold by Crony Dealers R Us.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I see no value added by dealerships

They stick that little plaque on the back of your car so they can get free advertising, and your cars paint job and rust protection gets fucked.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla?s Direct Sales Model | TechCrunch

Should cars be sold directly to consumers, cutting out the mid-man (dealerships). It sounds very anti-capitalistic to say no, but dealerships provide many many high paying jobs: Salesman, Managers, Mechanics, Finance, Brokers, Marketing Exe, Buyers etc. Cutting out them, then you lose millions upon millions of jobs. Start the trend from direct from the manufacturer sales with one auto manufacturer and see it spread like the plague.

Normally I would be against such a move, but the job and industry ramifications and lose of another industry makes me think this isn't the worst move.

Of course, I want to support anything and everything Tesla does, because I believe they are starting the wave of the future, I also see the advantage in "forcing" the OEMs to use dealerships.

People paying more for the same thing improves the economy? Is that seriously what you're arguing?

It helps the rich dealers, and we know that Democrats love rich people.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

You'll like this.

If Tesla Would Stop Selling Cars, We'd All Save Some Money | Cato Institute

But not this,

Tesla and the Red-State Blues | Cato @ Liberty

We’ve seen this movie before, of course, with occupational licensure, consumer products, and so much more. And invariably it comes down to the same thing: the folks in place don’t like competition from the new kids on the block, so they run to the legislature for protection. Come on Texas (and North Carolina), practice what you preach. You’re making the blue states look good, and no self-respecting Texan wants that.

Obviously some dealership owners made some hefty campaign contributions....

It's a win, win? Tesla still gets to **** over the tax payers too!

First, there’s the $7500 taxback bonus that every buyer gets and every taxpayer pays. Then there are generous state subsidies ($2500 in California, $4000 in Illinois—the bluer the state, the more the taxpayers get gouged), all paid to people forking out $63K (plus taxes) for the base version, to roughly $100K for the really quick one.

Tesla didn’t generate a profit by selling sexy cars, but rather by selling sleazy emissions “credits,” mandated by the state of California’s electric vehicle requirements. The competition, like Honda, doesn’t have a mass market plug-in to meet the mandate and therefore must buy the credits from Tesla, the only company that does. The bill for last quarter was $68 million. Absent this shakedown of potential car buyers, Tesla would have lost $57 million, or $11,400 per car. As the company sold 5,000 cars in the quarter, though, $13,600 per car was paid by other manufacturers, who are going to pass at least some of that cost on to buyers of their products. Folks in the new car market are likely paying a bit more than simply the direct tax subsidy.

Arguments against government subsidies of business does not make a case for rent seeking.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

It's a win, win? Tesla still gets to **** over the tax payers too!

First, there’s the $7500 taxback bonus that every buyer gets and every taxpayer pays. Then there are generous state subsidies ($2500 in California, $4000 in Illinois—the bluer the state, the more the taxpayers get gouged), all paid to people forking out $63K (plus taxes) for the base version, to roughly $100K for the really quick one.

Tesla didn’t generate a profit by selling sexy cars, but rather by selling sleazy emissions “credits,” mandated by the state of California’s electric vehicle requirements. The competition, like Honda, doesn’t have a mass market plug-in to meet the mandate and therefore must buy the credits from Tesla, the only company that does. The bill for last quarter was $68 million. Absent this shakedown of potential car buyers, Tesla would have lost $57 million, or $11,400 per car. As the company sold 5,000 cars in the quarter, though, $13,600 per car was paid by other manufacturers, who are going to pass at least some of that cost on to buyers of their products. Folks in the new car market are likely paying a bit more than simply the direct tax subsidy.

So when you look at all the stupid market manipulations that government does, how is it that at no point does it ever dawn on you that the problem is ... government?

Because government is his religion.

 

[kaz]

New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla?s Direct Sales Model | TechCrunch

Should cars be sold directly to consumers, cutting out the mid-man (dealerships). It sounds very anti-capitalistic to say no, but dealerships provide many many high paying jobs: Salesman, Managers, Mechanics, Finance, Brokers, Marketing Exe, Buyers etc. Cutting out them, then you lose millions upon millions of jobs. Start the trend from direct from the manufacturer sales with one auto manufacturer and see it spread like the plague.

Normally I would be against such a move, but the job and industry ramifications and lose of another industry makes me think this isn't the worst move.

Of course, I want to support anything and everything Tesla does, because I believe they are starting the wave of the future, I also see the advantage in "forcing" the OEMs to use dealerships.

People paying more for the same thing improves the economy? Is that seriously what you're arguing?

It helps the rich dealers, and we know that Democrats love rich people.

It's nice to see the issue pushed, I've argued against government forcing people to buy from dealerships for a long time now. I hope Tesla drives other companies to fight to bypass dealers. People have no idea what politicians are doing to us. My favorite is that government has to approve someone to tell you what color to paint your walls....

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Who's going to do the warranty service repairs?

Joe's Shade Tree House Of Repairs Of Phantom Problems?

I recall a Company called "General Motors" who went bankrupt try to change the way we bought cars when they first marketed the Saturn.

But I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Generic Motors makes junk. Always have, always will.

Saturn was a good idea. Problem was, it was Generic Motors that tried it and GM could **** up a one car funeral.

My first question....."Where do I take my car for service and how do I know they know what the **** they're doing?"

And, "Who trains the mechanics?"

I'm no friend of Dealers. Bunch of ******* thieves. But I wonder if this has been thought out.

Let me guess, you actually believe that dealerships can answer those questions better than non dealerships.

Why not separate the service departments at dealerships from the sales department? Right now I can choose whether or not I want my car serviced at the dealership. Why can't I choose for sales?

Damn straight.

Keep this up and you will turn into a classical liberal.

 

[GHook93]

If you believe in a free market then the answer is yes. If you believe in protectionism and cronyism then the answer is no.

If you believe in black and white only, then you have a point, if you believe in a gray area, then you don't.

 

[kaz]

If you believe in a free market then the answer is yes. If you believe in protectionism and cronyism then the answer is no.

If you believe in black and white only, then you have a point, if you believe in a gray area, then you don't.

Some things are black and white, some things are not. For example, government using the force of guns to compel you to do what's in their own interest and not the people's is black and not gray.

 

[velvtacheeze]

Who's going to do the warranty service repairs?

Joe's Shade Tree House Of Repairs Of Phantom Problems?

I recall a Company called "General Motors" who went bankrupt try to change the way we bought cars when they first marketed the Saturn.

But I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Generic Motors makes junk. Always have, always will.

Saturn was a good idea. Problem was, it was Generic Motors that tried it and GM could **** up a one car funeral.

My first question....."Where do I take my car for service and how do I know they know what the **** they're doing?"

And, "Who trains the mechanics?"

I'm no friend of Dealers. Bunch of ******* thieves. But I wonder if this has been thought out.

I thought the free market , with its wondrous powers, would figure a way out? Not so much? We need state regulations to shape the car market, but healthcare, where life & death is on the line, should be more free market?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

People paying more for the same thing improves the economy? Is that seriously what you're arguing?

It helps the rich dealers, and we know that Democrats love rich people.

It's nice to see the issue pushed, I've argued against government forcing people to buy from dealerships for a long time now. I hope Tesla drives other companies to fight to bypass dealers. People have no idea what politicians are doing to us. My favorite is that government has to approve someone to tell you what color to paint your walls....

I predict that the entire manufacturing base is going to shift to 3D printing, and everyone will be living in Star Trek.

 

[kaz]

Who's going to do the warranty service repairs?

Joe's Shade Tree House Of Repairs Of Phantom Problems?

I recall a Company called "General Motors" who went bankrupt try to change the way we bought cars when they first marketed the Saturn.

But I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Generic Motors makes junk. Always have, always will.

Saturn was a good idea. Problem was, it was Generic Motors that tried it and GM could **** up a one car funeral.

My first question....."Where do I take my car for service and how do I know they know what the **** they're doing?"

And, "Who trains the mechanics?"

I'm no friend of Dealers. Bunch of ******* thieves. But I wonder if this has been thought out.

I thought the free market , with its wondrous powers, would figure a way out? Not so much? We need state regulations to shape the car market, but healthcare, where life & death is on the line, should be more free market?

The car market should be more free market. On the other hand, healthcare should be more free market...

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If you believe in a free market then the answer is yes. If you believe in protectionism and cronyism then the answer is no.

If you believe in black and white only, then you have a point, if you believe in a gray area, then you don't.

If you believe you are smart, you aren't.

 

[bripat9643]

I have no problem with direct sales. If the dealerships are providing something that people are willing to pay for - they'll do just fine.

There are a lot of dealers that will sell you a car online or over the phone. I don't see why you can't order one direct from the manufacturer. However, the big three won't do it because they don't want to undercut their dealers. Who would be a car from a dealer of you could order it online and avoid all the dealer costs?

 

[Howey]

New Jersey Becomes Third State To Ban Tesla?s Direct Sales Model | TechCrunch

Should cars be sold directly to consumers, cutting out the mid-man (dealerships)..

Considering the numbers Tesla sells its cars in, I have no problem with it.

Tesla, btw, has received the highest rating of any car ever from CU.

I have no problem with direct sales. If the dealerships are providing something that people are willing to pay for - they'll do just fine.

Where do you go when your $7,000 transmission takes a shit 20 days after you buy it?

Or how about when that $10,000 Battery catches fire?

And who stands behind the work?

Who will do the recall work and who stands behind that?

Who services the car for you? Like a revolutionary new car might need some specialized service....? Maybe...?

**** Tesla. They can play by the same rules everybody else plays by or they can go buh-bye.

We live in a Free Market Based Capitalist Society, not the Snake Oil salesman culture of the 19th Century.

Why from the TESLA dealership where you bought the car, of course. The only difference is the Tesla dealerships are run by Tesla rather than a 3rd party. If you are not near their service center, they make house calls!

SCHEDULE A SERVICE RANGER VISIT

No matter how far you live from a service center, be it 100 miles or 5, Tesla Rangers are always available to make a house call. Contact Tesla Service.


Springfield Township | Tesla Motors

Garden State Plaza | Tesla Store Locations | Tesla Motors

Short Hills | Tesla Store Locations | Tesla Motors

Thanks for enlightening the unenlightened. People should really use Google before they spew stupid.