"Utterly Insane"....Says Elon Musk About The "Big, Beautiful Bill" Gutting All Clean Energy Incentives. And He Is Correct.

[Rigby5]

Climate Change is a science. Global Warming is a hoax. CO2 is not the cause of Earth climate change...

Thread 'Since Co2 does nothing, what does cause Earth climate change?'

Jun 11, 2023

The first part is understanding what is climate and what is weather. Climate is the parameters of Earth that allow certain ranges of weather. We don't get Cat 10 canes now, but we would if Earth had no ice.

What are the parameters of climate that can change?

Ocean levels
Atmospheric thickness
Temperature
Humidity


What controls those?

The amount of ice on the planet. Period. Ocean level is 100% inversely correlated to Earth ice content (on land, not sea ice, which is pathetically small) - duh. Trapped in ice age glacier is compressed gas. When it snows 10 feet, you can compress...

• EMH
• Replies: 544
• Forum: Environment

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• 
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CO2 is the ONLY possible cause of climate change.
The graph of CO2 and temperature are pretty much identical.

What causes it is that since the earth is in the vacuum of space, no heat can leave by conduction.
That means solar heat would continue to collect until the earth was over 400 degrees like Venus is.
So the reason the earth is not 400 degrees like Venus is that the earth radiates out infrared energy as photonic light.

But if all solar energy left, the planet would be over 40 degrees colder.

So it is the amount of CO2 at the upper atmosphere, boundary to space, that controls how much heat is retained or radiated out into space.

{...
CO2 retains planetary heat by absorbing infrared energy and re-emitting it back in all directions. About half of this energy goes out into space, and about half returns to Earth as heat, contributing to the greenhouse effect
...}

 

[Rigby5]

Doing business environmentally friendly adds zero costs. We need more watchdogs.

That is true if we use some alternative like hydrogen, ethanol, bio diesel, etc.
But EVs with batteries actually use more energy because the batteries add half a ton of weight.
EVs also are very inefficient since the generators, batteries, and motors each are very inefficient.

 

[Rigby5]

They don’t get any.

There are huge subsidies for gas and oil
There are 2 main ways it is done.
One is a huge tax write off for oil and gas exploration.
And the other is cheap federal leases that charge only pennies on the dollar worth of fossil fuels extracted.

{...
Oil companies receive various subsidies, including:

• Tax Subsidies: These are expected to reduce federal revenue by $12.9 billion from 2022 to 2026. The largest subsidies include:
• Excess of percentage over cost depletion: $3.3 billion
• Exceptions for publicly-traded partnerships with qualified income: $2.7 billion
• Pollution control: $2.5 billion.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=447a...W5lcmd5LXByb2R1Y3Rpb24tZm9zc2lsLWZ1ZWxz&ntb=1
• Total Subsidies: From 2010 to 2015, oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion, respectively, with oil benefiting significantly from percentage depletion allowances and other tax-based subsidies.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=901f...1YnNpZGllc19pbl90aGVfVW5pdGVkX1N0YXRlcw&ntb=1
• Consumption Incentives: In addition to direct subsidies, there are also consumption incentives that amount to about $16 billion for the oil and gas industry.

...}

 

[BluesLegend]

It pains me to say this, but Elon Musk is 100% correct. This bill is a ******* disaster for the environment

Democrats are to blame, go ***** up that tree. CORRUPT Dem assholes have CRAMMED so much 'climate' BS down everyone's throats people are sick of it. They are also sick of watching CORRUPT Dem assholes SCAM money from these schemes. So you screwed the pooch, deal with it.

 

[Rigby5]

Since the axis of the earth wobbles, the Artic points towards the sun, but the Antarctic never does.

Liar.

You don't know shit about uranium either.

Here is an article that gives other reasons for the colder Antarctic.
{...

1. The Arctic is an ocean surrounded by land. The Antarctic is land surrounded by ocean.​

2. Antarctica’s High Altitude​

3. Antarctica’s Massive Ice Sheet​

4. Isolation by Winds and Currents: Why Antarctica Stays Colder​

5. Antarctica is windier than the Arctic​

...}
Why Is Antarctica Colder than the Arctic? Here's the Science Explained. - Our Planet

 

[BluesLegend]

Easy...I paid $30,000 for my solar panels. You will pay A LOT more than that during your worthless MAGA lifetime for your dirty fossil fuel energy.

Riiiight recycled plants and animals vs your toxic EV cocktail of heavy metals and stuff so nasty it can't be mined in the U.S.

 

[Rigby5]

Democrats are to blame, go ***** up that tree. CORRUPT Dem assholes have CRAMMED so much 'climate' BS down everyone's throats people are sick of it. They are also sick of watching CORRUPT Dem assholes SCAM money from these schemes. So you screwed the pooch, deal with it.

My opinion is that military spending has always been the biggest deficit problem.
Reagan did it with SDI, Bush did it with Shock and Awe, Biden did it with the Ukraine and Israel, etc.

 

[BluesLegend]

My opinion is that military spending has always been the biggest deficit problem.
Reagan did it with SDI, Bush did it with Shock and Awe, Biden did it with the Ukraine and Israel, etc.

We would likely agree on military spending and stupid shit politicians' wielding of the military.

My problem with Ukraine is, those dumb F's in Europe have been killing each other now for over 2,000 years. Now they are at it again FFS. Why is that MY problem? We are already $36 trillion in debt it's not like we are sitting on a pile of cash and don't know what to spend it on.

Our politicians are even stupider. Europe laughs while the stupid Americans volunteer to borrow all the money to fund the war while getting nothing in return.

I'm convinced the U.S. will suffer the same fate of every apex empire in the entirety of human history, we'll crash and burn due to the stupidity of our leaders.

 

[Modern Messiah]

It's not "scare tactics"....that is literally what your hopelessly stupid MAGA sucker ass is voting for.

You love Trump so much that you are willing to shorten your lifespan over it. Sad, but true.

So apparently you still can't answer any of the specific questions posed to you.
Then you resort to scare tactic platitudes.
Then you enter stage three where you just call people who disagree with you names like "MAGA sucker ass" or "nazi"
Quite Lame

 

[EMH]

Since the axis of the earth wobbles, the Artic points towards the sun, but the Antarctic never does. So the Antarctic has way more ice.

LOL!!!

from goog

Yes, the South Pole does receive sunlight, but not year-round. Due to the Earth's tilt, the South Pole experiences 24 hours of sunlight during its summer (approximately from late September to late March)
The CO2 FRAUD and the ABSOLUTE MORONS who believe it....

But the reason Greenland has much thicker ice sheet, is that there is more precipitation due to weather patterns

LIE

. Precipitation in Greenland averaged 443.52 mm from 1901 until 2023

Average Yearly Precipitation for Alaska - Current Results

List of total annual rainfall plus snowfall at cities, towns and parks in Alaska, including average yearly precipitation and days of wet weather for places throughout the state.

www.currentresults.com

Juneau gets 1700 mm

There is no doubt oceans are warming

Hurricane data refutes that completely...

U.S. Hurricane Strikes by Decade

Seriously, you got a ZERO, go back to 2nd grade and try to pass this time...

 

[EMH]

Sorry, but global warming is true.

The normal climate cycle comes from plants using up so much CO2 that it the infrared heat is allowed to escape out to space at the upper atmosphere.
That makes the planet colder until it gets so cold the plants die.
That makes the plants rot and release their CO2 again, making the planet warming again, because CO2 is opaque to infrared and does not let it escape the earth to space as easily.
That normal cooling and heating cycle is about 110k years long.
There have been over 12 of these natural global warming cycles.

However, the last natural warming peak was only about 15k years ago, and now we are supposed to start cooling.
But by artificially doubling the CO2 concentration, we are essentially adding an artificial global warming on top of the warmest part of the natural global warming.
That is a double warming that has never happened before.
The risk is that even though it may take hundreds or even a thousand years, the temperatures reached could kill all life on the planet?

We don't know for sure how hot it is going to get from this double CO2?
There is a possibility that warming will evaporate more ocean, and that will cause cloud cover to increase albedo reflection, and prevent horrendous warming.
But who would want to take that risk?

Greenland froze while North America thawed, eliminating Sun and CO2 as suspects.

Earth climate data continues to read precisely

NO WARMING in the ATMOSPHERE
NO WARMING in the OCEANS
NO ONGOING NET ICE MELT
NO BREAKOUT in CANE ACTIVITY
NO OCEAN RISE

 

[EMH]

CO2 is the ONLY possible cause of climate change

CO2 does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING,

sincerely

highly correlated satellite and balloon data

Key claim against global warming evaporates

Satellite and weather balloon data used to argue that climate models were wrong and that global warming isn't really happening turns out to be based on faulty analyses, according to three new studies.

www.nbcnews.com

There is NO ACTUAL DATA showing atmospheric warming, just FUDGE. The atmosphere is not warming while CO2 increases.

THEORY REJECTED

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

There are huge subsidies for gas and oil
There are 2 main ways it is done.
One is a huge tax write off for oil and gas exploration.
And the other is cheap federal leases that charge only pennies on the dollar worth of fossil fuels extracted.

{...
Oil companies receive various subsidies, including:

• Tax Subsidies: These are expected to reduce federal revenue by $12.9 billion from 2022 to 2026. The largest subsidies include:
• Excess of percentage over cost depletion: $3.3 billion
• Exceptions for publicly-traded partnerships with qualified income: $2.7 billion
• Pollution control: $2.5 billion.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=447a...W5lcmd5LXByb2R1Y3Rpb24tZm9zc2lsLWZ1ZWxz&ntb=1
• Total Subsidies: From 2010 to 2015, oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion, respectively, with oil benefiting significantly from percentage depletion allowances and other tax-based subsidies.
  https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=901f...1YnNpZGllc19pbl90aGVfVW5pdGVkX1N0YXRlcw&ntb=1
• Consumption Incentives: In addition to direct subsidies, there are also consumption incentives that amount to about $16 billion for the oil and gas industry.

...}

And the other is cheap federal leases that charge only pennies on the dollar worth of fossil fuels extracted.

How many pennies?

• Excess of percentage over cost depletion: $3.3 billion

Only small producers can use this. Other natural resources also qualify.

• Exceptions for publicly-traded partnerships with qualified income: $2.7 billion

Like all partnerships, tax is only charged at the partner level, not twice.

From 2010 to 2015, The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion

years 1950–2016.

DURR

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Here is an article that gives other reasons for the colder Antarctic.
{...

1. The Arctic is an ocean surrounded by land. The Antarctic is land surrounded by ocean.​

2. Antarctica’s High Altitude​

3. Antarctica’s Massive Ice Sheet​

4. Isolation by Winds and Currents: Why Antarctica Stays Colder​

5. Antarctica is windier than the Arctic​

...}
Why Is Antarctica Colder than the Arctic? Here's the Science Explained. - Our Planet

Here is an article that gives other reasons for the colder Antarctic.

Other reasons? Because your reason was wrong? DURR

 

[Frankenstein]

It pains me to say this, but Elon Musk is 100% correct. This bill is a ******* disaster for the environment, our economy, and for our country.

Trump and the Republican Party are literally destroying this country.

This is one of the biggest reasons Senator Thom Tillis (R-NC) is going to vote against the bill -- it kills good-paying, green energy manufacturing jobs in North Carolina and throughout the country.

Trump wants to bring back 1970s factories from China with his stupid ******* tariffs making cheap ass shirts, shorts, toys, pots, and pans.

But good paying, high tech green energy factory jobs? Nah.....just give all those good green energy manufacturing jobs to China!!

Total insanity.


From the Washington Post. --

Congressional Republicans are poised to reverse course on U.S. energy policy by wiping out hundreds of billions of dollars in incentives for solar and wind projects as well as for consumers seeking to purchase everything from energy-saving appliances to electric cars.

The Senate’s tax bill, which cleared a key procedural hurdle Saturday, contains strict green energy cutbacks that disappointed lobbyists for solar, wind and battery companies, who hoped senators would temper some of the House’s most draconian cuts. It also imposes a new tax on existing wind and solar farms if they include materials from a foreign entity like China — a huge blow for the renewables industry, which incorporates many materials from China across its supply chain.

“They’re proposing an outright massacre with punishing new taxes on these industries,” Sen. Ron Wyden (D-Oregon) wrote in a statement on Saturday. He said Republicans added what amounts to a “death sentence” for green energy, with provisions added “in the middle of the night” Friday before voting started in the Senate.

The bill, which still must be passed by both the Senate and the House, would fulfill a major campaign pledge of President Donald Trump, who favors coal mining and oil drilling and has railed against federal green energy spending. With the reversal, executives and climate experts are expecting a sharp retreat in U.S. manufacturing and continued Chinese domination of the industry.

“The latest Senate draft bill will destroy millions of jobs in America and cause immense strategic harm to our country!” Tesla founder Elon Musk posted on X on Saturday, extending his split with the administration he served as leader of the U.S. DOGE Service. “Utterly insane and destructive. It gives handouts to industries of the past while severely damaging industries of the future.”

The new bill also eliminates consumer subsidies for rooftop solar, electric vehicles, heat pumps and other energy-efficient technologies. Homeowners will have just a few months (for electric vehicles) or until the end of the year (for heat pumps and rooftop solar) to take advantage of the credits before they expire.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2025/06/28/solar-green-energy-tax-bill-trump/

The new green deal was a grift to make Democrats rich in kickbacks! Or like one of my favorite movie titles it's Better off Dead

 

[drudge X]

Are leftists buying Tesla again?

 

[ColonelAngus]

I will be damned if I am going to listen to a NAZI who got rid of USAID….because he wants BILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO DIE!

Teslas are NAZI CARS!

ELON IS A NAZI! EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS A LIE!

NAZI!

 

[AntonToo]

You obviously didn't read the articles I posted.
DO ev batteries pose a harmful threat to the environment?
Do solar panels pose a harmful threat to the environment?
I'm not anti ev and I'm not anti solar panel.
But they do create harmful affects for the environment.
Along with wind turbines as well.
Especially when it comes time to dispose them.

Your questions are half-baked.

The question is NOT if EVs and Solar panels have any harmful effect.

The correct question is ARE THEY LESS HARMFUL than the fossil burning alternatives and the answer to that question is OF COURSE they are less harmful.

Are electric vehicles definitely better for the climate than gas-powered cars?

Yes: although electric cars' batteries make them more carbon-intensive to manufacture than gas cars, they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions.

climate.mit.edu

 

[YoursTruly]

Elon wants to see all government subsidies end.

I agree. The government picking winners and losers shouldn't be allowed.

 

[Modern Messiah]

Your questions are half-baked.

The question is NOT if EVs and Solar panels have any harmful effect.

The correct question is ARE THEY LESS HARMFUL than the fossil burning alternatives and the answer to that question is OF COURSE they are less harmful.

Are electric vehicles definitely better for the climate than gas-powered cars?

Yes: although electric cars' batteries make them more carbon-intensive to manufacture than gas cars, they more than make up for it by driving much cleaner under nearly any conditions.

climate.mit.edu

Again, I can tell you didn't read the articles that I posted.
Your conclusions are misguided because you have no real information to back them up.
You can get emotional all you want.
ev batteries, solar panels, and wind turbines pose significant threats to our environment.