Should Billionaires Even Exist?

[Ray From Cleveland]

What bad things did Democrats cast upon you?

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Got a solution?

I don't know if there is a solution, but there are a lot of things that could bring costs down, and some of them not costing us a dime.

I think the first thing we need is a mandatory health savings account. 1% deduction from your paycheck just like SS and Medicare. That way when you see a doctor or need an ER visit, the cost comes out of the savings account first.

If you read articles by insurance company CEO's, their claim is that what drives the cost are these nickel and dime bills. You go to your doctor for about $80.00, and then that charge goes to the insurance company. From there, they have to calculate what their portion of the payment is and what your portion is. Their claim is that the amount of people it takes to process all these bills drives their operating costs up. Then they have to remit their part of the claim back to the doctor's office or clinic. Then the doctors office or clinic sends you a bill for the amount you owe, and sometimes they need to send several as many people just throw them away.

With a medical savings account, it leaves the insurance company out of the picture unless the cost is so high that they need to step in. Less staff needed in the doctors office, and less at the insurance company.

 

[Brain357]

What bad things did Democrats cast upon you?

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Comparing this to the 1960s is absolute idiocy. Do you know what the treatment for a heart attack was in the 1960s?

Aspirin. It wasn't even until the 1970s that they even used a stint, to prop open a blocked artery. In the 1960s, it was common, even normal, for people to simply die if they had a heart attack.

Left-winger "we have treatments now that work, and now health care costs more than when we had no treatments! That's unfair!"

Think. Use your brain.

Treatment costs money. Regulations cost money too. Your article fails to admit that. High regulations on health care, has clearly been a contributing factor on the higher cost of care.

Lastly, Medicare and Medicaid itself, have dramatically driven up costs.

It shows it's been increasing drastically for a very long time.

 

[Brain357]

What bad things did Democrats cast upon you?

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

 

[San Souci]

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

and why do you think that happened? any idea?

it started when people assumed that their insurance should pay for all medical expenses. So the medical providers could raise prices since the insurers would just pay up and raise premiums on the people.

same reason that college tuition went up when the government started guaranteeing student loans of any amount.

Its not complicated if you actually think about it for a few seconds.

Actually, the government underpays doctors and hospitals for their patients. Some are actually refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. The increases by the providers are because of government. If the government only pays 2/3 of the bill for a doctors visit, no big deal, but on a 500K surgery? That's a problem. They have to recoup that money somehow.

That's why when a provider closes down, it's usually in lower income areas where there are few private and insurance paying customers. It's mostly government covered customers.

Since insurance companies own or derive profit from 95% of providers and hospitals in the US, isn't it the insurance companies themselves refusing to accept government assignment?

I don't understand the question. If you are on Medicare or Medicaid, those are government programs and have nothing to do with insurance companies, although, when I was working in medical, the government did hire Prudential to do some of their billing for them.

Medicare pays insurance companies, but according to insurance companies they don't pay enough, so insurance companies have products that you can buy. Pretty sweet for the insurance companies.

Anything is better than Gov't control.

 

[San Souci]

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Got a solution?

I don't know if there is a solution, but there are a lot of things that could bring costs down, and some of them not costing us a dime.

I think the first thing we need is a mandatory health savings account. 1% deduction from your paycheck just like SS and Medicare. That way when you see a doctor or need an ER visit, the cost comes out of the savings account first.

If you read articles by insurance company CEO's, their claim is that what drives the cost are these nickel and dime bills. You go to your doctor for about $80.00, and then that charge goes to the insurance company. From there, they have to calculate what their portion of the payment is and what your portion is. Their claim is that the amount of people it takes to process all these bills drives their operating costs up. Then they have to remit their part of the claim back to the doctor's office or clinic. Then the doctors office or clinic sends you a bill for the amount you owe, and sometimes they need to send several as many people just throw them away.

With a medical savings account, it leaves the insurance company out of the picture unless the cost is so high that they need to step in. Less staff needed in the doctors office, and less at the insurance company.

Tort Reform. Make Mal-Practice a CRIMINAL offense. End Mal-Practice Insurance.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Got a solution?

I don't know if there is a solution, but there are a lot of things that could bring costs down, and some of them not costing us a dime.

I think the first thing we need is a mandatory health savings account. 1% deduction from your paycheck just like SS and Medicare. That way when you see a doctor or need an ER visit, the cost comes out of the savings account first.

If you read articles by insurance company CEO's, their claim is that what drives the cost are these nickel and dime bills. You go to your doctor for about $80.00, and then that charge goes to the insurance company. From there, they have to calculate what their portion of the payment is and what your portion is. Their claim is that the amount of people it takes to process all these bills drives their operating costs up. Then they have to remit their part of the claim back to the doctor's office or clinic. Then the doctors office or clinic sends you a bill for the amount you owe, and sometimes they need to send several as many people just throw them away.

With a medical savings account, it leaves the insurance company out of the picture unless the cost is so high that they need to step in. Less staff needed in the doctors office, and less at the insurance company.

Tort Reform. Make Mal-Practice a CRIMINAL offense. End Mal-Practice Insurance.

Tort reform is great, but you can never end malpractice insurance. Without a doubt, there are some medical professionals who have been careless in the past, and their former clients deserve restitution. But instead of tort reform or the elimination of malpractice insurance, I say we adopt a system similar to Britain; loser pays all. Sue anybody you like, but if you lose your suit, you are financially responsible for the losses of the party you accused of wrongdoing. This would not only help in medical suits, but all lawsuits in general. It would insure that the complainant has a solid case before they move forward instead of ambulance chasers hoping to strike it rich not costing the accuser a dime.

So why haven't we done that? Most of our representatives are former attorneys.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

Longevity is not a direct result of our healthcare system. We have drugs killing over 90,000 Americans a year now, and that's not including the thousands of murders that take place over drug sales in the streets. We drive more than most other people around the world, and we lose a lot of people in traffic accidents; 27,000 last year alone. Professional women have children much later in life than women in other countries. The later a woman gets pregnant, the more likely she is to lose the child after birth.

 

[Brain357]

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

Longevity is not a direct result of our healthcare system. We have drugs killing over 90,000 Americans a year now, and that's not including the thousands of murders that take place over drug sales in the streets. We drive more than most other people around the world, and we lose a lot of people in traffic accidents; 27,000 last year alone. Professional women have children much later in life than women in other countries. The later a woman gets pregnant, the more likely she is to lose the child after birth.

Not gonna dispute it's the most expensive eh? Pretty sure other countries have drugs and cars and all manner of ways to die too.

 

[Andylusion]

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

Longevity is not a direct result of our healthcare system. We have drugs killing over 90,000 Americans a year now, and that's not including the thousands of murders that take place over drug sales in the streets. We drive more than most other people around the world, and we lose a lot of people in traffic accidents; 27,000 last year alone. Professional women have children much later in life than women in other countries. The later a woman gets pregnant, the more likely she is to lose the child after birth.

Not gonna dispute it's the most expensive eh? Pretty sure other countries have drugs and cars and all manner of ways to die too.

That's true, for a number of reasons.

1. The bleeding edge technology is always the most expensive.

Take France. France usually does not get the same medications that we do in the US, for usually several years. Why? too expensive. If it costs too much, then they simply don't let their citizens have those medications.

You want to reduce the cost of medications in the US? Simply let people die, and don't let them have expensive medications, just like France.

2. For smaller markets, companies are willing to cut prices.

As has been posted a number of times, the cost to bring a single medication to market, is upward of a billion to two billion dollars, or even more. How can you spend billions of dollars, and sell a pill for $1 each? You can't. You'd end up bankrupt. Again, basic math comes into effect.

So the companies absolutely must charge enough in their main market, in order to recover their investment. To not do this, means closing the company.

However, once you have that cost recovered.... then you can make whatever deal you want. So you have the US, and lets say, Taiwan. Taiwan only has 20 million people or so. It's a small market. Once you have the US market covering the cost of R&D.... then selling the same medication to Taiwan, is just gravy. Even selling it for $1 a pill, is still worth it.

But you can't sell that pill in the US for $1 each, because someone has to cover that billion+ investment you spent to create the pill.

Someone has to pay the bill. Or you don't have any medication at all. And by the way... why does it cost over a billion dollars to bring a pill to market? Government controls and regulations. Just like I said before.... all costs and taxes, all end up being passed onto the consumer.

3. and lastly but likely more important than even the first two, the research and design.

Medical breakthroughs are costly It can take decades of endless testing, to even come up with one single valid treatment on anything.

You realize that France was the mother country of the modern pharmaceutical revolution. We all learned that in history class (or at least I did).

Did you know that today, France is one of the least innovative countries in the field of medicine? Why do you think that is? Why do most of the medical innovations in the whole world, happen in the US?

Because the profits, fuel innovation. France killed the profits, thus there is little innovation.

 

[Andylusion]

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Comparing this to the 1960s is absolute idiocy. Do you know what the treatment for a heart attack was in the 1960s?

Aspirin. It wasn't even until the 1970s that they even used a stint, to prop open a blocked artery. In the 1960s, it was common, even normal, for people to simply die if they had a heart attack.

Left-winger "we have treatments now that work, and now health care costs more than when we had no treatments! That's unfair!"

Think. Use your brain.

Treatment costs money. Regulations cost money too. Your article fails to admit that. High regulations on health care, has clearly been a contributing factor on the higher cost of care.

Lastly, Medicare and Medicaid itself, have dramatically driven up costs.

It shows it's been increasing drastically for a very long time.

Yes, since Medicare. Government involvement in health care, has drastically increased cost. Yes. you are right.

 

[San Souci]

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Got a solution?

I don't know if there is a solution, but there are a lot of things that could bring costs down, and some of them not costing us a dime.

I think the first thing we need is a mandatory health savings account. 1% deduction from your paycheck just like SS and Medicare. That way when you see a doctor or need an ER visit, the cost comes out of the savings account first.

If you read articles by insurance company CEO's, their claim is that what drives the cost are these nickel and dime bills. You go to your doctor for about $80.00, and then that charge goes to the insurance company. From there, they have to calculate what their portion of the payment is and what your portion is. Their claim is that the amount of people it takes to process all these bills drives their operating costs up. Then they have to remit their part of the claim back to the doctor's office or clinic. Then the doctors office or clinic sends you a bill for the amount you owe, and sometimes they need to send several as many people just throw them away.

With a medical savings account, it leaves the insurance company out of the picture unless the cost is so high that they need to step in. Less staff needed in the doctors office, and less at the insurance company.

Tort Reform. Make Mal-Practice a CRIMINAL offense. End Mal-Practice Insurance.

Tort reform is great, but you can never end malpractice insurance. Without a doubt, there are some medical professionals who have been careless in the past, and their former clients deserve restitution. But instead of tort reform or the elimination of malpractice insurance, I say we adopt a system similar to Britain; loser pays all. Sue anybody you like, but if you lose your suit, you are financially responsible for the losses of the party you accused of wrongdoing. This would not only help in medical suits, but all lawsuits in general. It would insure that the complainant has a solid case before they move forward instead of ambulance chasers hoping to strike it rich not costing the accuser a dime.

So why haven't we done that? Most of our representatives are former attorneys.

Why should a Hospital pay Damages if a Doctor makes a mistake? It should be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt. By a Jury of 12.

 

[Ken Mac]

So in 2006, I had a great private insurance policy, that was $67 a month, and covered everything I needed.

By 2010, to this day, no such plans exist. The cheapest plan that is available at all, is $350/month, and that's with a lower max cap, and a higher deductible, than my $67/month plan back in 2006. Obama wrecked all of it.

Healthcare costs started skyrocketing long before 2010. Increases were inevitable.

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

Shit. I forgot. We are supposed to have the best of everything! We suck don't we. I'm going to go find another country to live in.

 

[Redfish]

and why do you think that happened? any idea?

it started when people assumed that their insurance should pay for all medical expenses. So the medical providers could raise prices since the insurers would just pay up and raise premiums on the people.

same reason that college tuition went up when the government started guaranteeing student loans of any amount.

Its not complicated if you actually think about it for a few seconds.

Actually, the government underpays doctors and hospitals for their patients. Some are actually refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. The increases by the providers are because of government. If the government only pays 2/3 of the bill for a doctors visit, no big deal, but on a 500K surgery? That's a problem. They have to recoup that money somehow.

That's why when a provider closes down, it's usually in lower income areas where there are few private and insurance paying customers. It's mostly government covered customers.

partially correct, but its a tax game being played by medical providers. They create a bill of 250K for a surgery, accept a medicare or insurance payment of 80K and then claim a tax loss for the other 170K. that's why you see a charge of $5 for one aspirin on your hospital bill. Its a game.

They create a bill of 250K for a surgery, accept a medicare or insurance payment of 80K and then claim a tax loss for the other 170K.

You can't claim a tax loss based on an imaginary price.
If the depreciation expense on the surgery equipment and operating room, doctor's and nurse's salaries, blood, oxygen, anesthesia, insurance, recovery room, etc., etc., etc., comes to $60,000...they have a net profit of $20,000, whether they billed $80,000.....$250,000 or $1 million.

Look at any hospital's balance sheet, you will see that I am correct. None of them shows a profit for tax purposes. Now, you are correct that they actually make a profit, but they pay no corporate taxes because of the way they account for costs and revenue.

Look at any hospital's balance sheet, you will see that I am correct

A balance sheet shows assets and liabilities. Not cash flow or income.

None of them shows a profit for tax purposes.

Most are non-profit. But if your tax claim was true, it would still have nothing to do with imaginary prices.

but they pay no corporate taxes because of the way they account for costs and revenue.

Again, nothing to do with accepting an $80,000 payment for a $60,000 expense originally billed at $250,000.

not sure what you are arguing about. we are in agreement that medical facilities overcharge. That is a different topic from how they avoid federal taxes.

 

[Redfish]

I don't necessarily believe that being a billionaire should be illegal but I personally would not be comfortable having that much money and I also personally believe that simple living is more in line with my own moral, ethical, and religious beliefs than having all the money in the world.

It is not HAVING the money. It is the EARNING that is fun. If one is the type able to do it in the first place.

Yes, people who end up being millionaires and billionaires have a different mindset that's for sure.

Yes. Some people forget that they create JOBS.

They do but I guess my personal opinion is that you would think that their company and especially their employees would be better off if the multi-millionaire or billionaire founder or owner didn’t allow themselves to get to that level because they gave more money back into the company and it’s employees beyond simple employment.

its up to the individual rich person what they do with their money. If you don't like how a CEO acts boycott his business. The government should never tell any person what they must do with their money.

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

You know what’s not cool anymore? Billionaires.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Elizabeth Warren believe some Americans have too much money, and they’re not alone.

Their very existence is now the subject of political debate, sparked most recently by tax-the-rich proposals from two prominent politicians.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) proposed placing a 2 percent tax on wealth over $50 million and 3 percent on assets over $1 billion. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) said she wants to increase the marginal tax rate on those earning more than $10 million a year.

Their ideas went viral, starting a mainstream conversation about inequality and wealth.

This kind of talk has always existed among a certain group of hard-core progressives and left-leaning economists, but heading into next year’s presidential election, the idea that the super-rich should pay their fair share is gaining real momentum.

Marshall Steinbaum, a research director at the left-leaning Roosevelt Institute, has advocated taxing the rich at higher rates for years. “We do not need billionaires,” Steinbaum told HuffPost. “The economy’s done better without billionaires in the past.”

For Steinbaum, higher taxes on the wealthy would mean freeing up more money for everyone else. If you think of the economy as a pie, right now, billionaires are getting just about all of it, while we’re all left splitting just one slice.

If you raise taxes on the richest, their incentive to grab at every morsel declines. The theory is they’ll fight a little less hard to depress everyone else’s wages if they know that every extra million is going to get taxed away. A high-paid CEO has less incentive to keep workers’ wages low so he can get a bigger payday.

Billionaires were once a rare breed. In the past few decades, as the U.S. has slashed tax rates, their numbers have exploded, far outpacing inflation.

Since 2008, the number of billionaires in the world has doubled, according to a report published last week by the anti-poverty nonprofit Oxfam. In just the last year, billionaires raked in an astonishing $2.5 billion each day.

In 1982, the first year Forbes debuted its list of the 400 richest Americans, there were about a dozen billionaires. The richest man in the U.S. back then was an 85-year-old shipping magnate with an estimated worth of $2 billion, or $5.2 billion in today’s dollars.

"We do not need billionaires. The economy’s done better without billionaires in the past."
--Marshall Steinbaum, Roosevelt Institute​

Nowadays, Forbes’ list is entirely billionaires. The richest is Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, worth $160 billion.

More: Should Billionaires Even Exist?

I agree! Billionaires aren't cool anymore! The playing field is tilted like the Titanic before it went down. There is no logical reason for so few to have so much. What do you think?

HMMMM....1% pay 35% of all income taxes..................What do you think the total tax rate should be?

 

[Persistence Of Memory]

I don't necessarily believe that being a billionaire should be illegal but I personally would not be comfortable having that much money and I also personally believe that simple living is more in line with my own moral, ethical, and religious beliefs than having all the money in the world.

It is not HAVING the money. It is the EARNING that is fun. If one is the type able to do it in the first place.

Yes, people who end up being millionaires and billionaires have a different mindset that's for sure.

Yes. Some people forget that they create JOBS.

They do but I guess my personal opinion is that you would think that their company and especially their employees would be better off if the multi-millionaire or billionaire founder or owner didn’t allow themselves to get to that level because they gave more money back into the company and it’s employees beyond simple employment.

its up to the individual rich person what they do with their money. If you don't like how a CEO acts boycott his business. The government should never tell any person what they must do with their money.

What do you think the board libs would say if they were lucky enough to be that rich? Never get an answer to that one.

 

[Redfish]

Actually, the government underpays doctors and hospitals for their patients. Some are actually refusing new Medicare and Medicaid patients. The increases by the providers are because of government. If the government only pays 2/3 of the bill for a doctors visit, no big deal, but on a 500K surgery? That's a problem. They have to recoup that money somehow.

That's why when a provider closes down, it's usually in lower income areas where there are few private and insurance paying customers. It's mostly government covered customers.

Since insurance companies own or derive profit from 95% of providers and hospitals in the US, isn't it the insurance companies themselves refusing to accept government assignment?

I don't understand the question. If you are on Medicare or Medicaid, those are government programs and have nothing to do with insurance companies, although, when I was working in medical, the government did hire Prudential to do some of their billing for them.

Medicare pays insurance companies, but according to insurance companies they don't pay enough, so insurance companies have products that you can buy. Pretty sweet for the insurance companies.

No, Medicare pays the provider just like the insurance companies do. Why would Medicare pay an insurance company--for what?

I think medicare is processed through insurance companies. I believe they are paid a processing fee. I can only assume that is what he means..... or he's nuts... not sure.

medicare advantage is processed through insurance companies, original medicare (which pays 80% of the bill) is processed directly through the government.

under medicare advantage the government gives the insurance company a fixed amount per year for each policy holder, then the company pays the bills and there is usually zero or a very small premium to the policy holder, its a good deal for everyone.

 

[Redfish]

So lets review. I paid $67 a month, for a very good insurance policy. It had lower deductibles, and higher max lifetime cap.

Saying that healthcare cost were skyrocketing before hand, doesn't mean much, if they were still dramatically cheaper than today. And the research shows this.

See the problem? The cost of healthcare by most estimates quadrupled in 10 years.

The average individual insurance premium went from $160 to $400 in 10 years.

Would you claim the that in 1998 that the premium was barely $50? Of course not.

The average insurance deductible $2084 to $4328 in 10 years.

Do you think that the average deductible in 1998 was under $1,000?

By that logic, in the 1980s, health insurance should have been barely $20 a month for a $200 deductible.

Of course not. Insurance costs have dramatically increased under Obama care.

Insurance costs were not going insane prior to Obama care. They simply were not. It was fabricated by the left, as an excuse to socialize the system, and make people dependent on government. And it worked.

But it did not make anything any better. It made every aspect of the system worse.

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

We're living a lot longer. And I don't mean like 2-3 years since 1960. More like 15 years. And the boomer generation which is huge is aging and it is a huge generation of people. So yeah, more health care is needed. That doesn't mean these are the only reasons for it going up and being a greater portion of the GDP but it's a very large chunk of it.

It's the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and we don't live the longest....

Longevity is not a direct result of our healthcare system. We have drugs killing over 90,000 Americans a year now, and that's not including the thousands of murders that take place over drug sales in the streets. We drive more than most other people around the world, and we lose a lot of people in traffic accidents; 27,000 last year alone. Professional women have children much later in life than women in other countries. The later a woman gets pregnant, the more likely she is to lose the child after birth.

Not gonna dispute it's the most expensive eh? Pretty sure other countries have drugs and cars and all manner of ways to die too.

we are not the most expensive and we are the best. Would you rather pay 55% of your income to the government and have to wait months for routine care? Thats what they have in countries with socialized medicine, ask any Brit, Swede, or Canadian how the government run medicine works for them. It sucks.

 

[Redfish]

It is not HAVING the money. It is the EARNING that is fun. If one is the type able to do it in the first place.

Yes, people who end up being millionaires and billionaires have a different mindset that's for sure.

Yes. Some people forget that they create JOBS.

They do but I guess my personal opinion is that you would think that their company and especially their employees would be better off if the multi-millionaire or billionaire founder or owner didn’t allow themselves to get to that level because they gave more money back into the company and it’s employees beyond simple employment.

its up to the individual rich person what they do with their money. If you don't like how a CEO acts boycott his business. The government should never tell any person what they must do with their money.

What do you think the board libs would say if they were lucky enough to be that rich? Never get an answer to that one.

its also funny that they never criticize what the idiot millionaires in hollywood do with their money, or the rich liberals in congress do with theirs.

hypocrites, every one of them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It has been increasing for a very long time, sorry to burst your bubble.

See for Yourself If Obamacare Increased Health Care Costs
In 2017, U.S. health care costs were $3.5 trillion. That makes health care one of the country's largest industries. It equals 17.9% of gross domestic product. In comparison, health care cost $27.2 billion in 1960, just 5% of GDP. That translates to an annual health care cost of $10,739 per person in 2017 versus just $146 per person in 1960. Health care costs have risen faster than the average annual income.1 Health care consumed 4% of income in 1960 compared to 6% in 2013.

Got a solution?

I don't know if there is a solution, but there are a lot of things that could bring costs down, and some of them not costing us a dime.

I think the first thing we need is a mandatory health savings account. 1% deduction from your paycheck just like SS and Medicare. That way when you see a doctor or need an ER visit, the cost comes out of the savings account first.

If you read articles by insurance company CEO's, their claim is that what drives the cost are these nickel and dime bills. You go to your doctor for about $80.00, and then that charge goes to the insurance company. From there, they have to calculate what their portion of the payment is and what your portion is. Their claim is that the amount of people it takes to process all these bills drives their operating costs up. Then they have to remit their part of the claim back to the doctor's office or clinic. Then the doctors office or clinic sends you a bill for the amount you owe, and sometimes they need to send several as many people just throw them away.

With a medical savings account, it leaves the insurance company out of the picture unless the cost is so high that they need to step in. Less staff needed in the doctors office, and less at the insurance company.

Tort Reform. Make Mal-Practice a CRIMINAL offense. End Mal-Practice Insurance.

Tort reform is great, but you can never end malpractice insurance. Without a doubt, there are some medical professionals who have been careless in the past, and their former clients deserve restitution. But instead of tort reform or the elimination of malpractice insurance, I say we adopt a system similar to Britain; loser pays all. Sue anybody you like, but if you lose your suit, you are financially responsible for the losses of the party you accused of wrongdoing. This would not only help in medical suits, but all lawsuits in general. It would insure that the complainant has a solid case before they move forward instead of ambulance chasers hoping to strike it rich not costing the accuser a dime.

So why haven't we done that? Most of our representatives are former attorneys.

Why should a Hospital pay Damages if a Doctor makes a mistake? It should be PROVEN beyond a reasonable doubt. By a Jury of 12.

If you do the research on it, very few claims are ever settled in lawsuits. The cost is not the settlement itself, the cost is litigating it for years and years.

If persistent enough, the lawyers settle out of court because it's cheaper to do it that way than fight the issue in court for extended periods of time. These ambulance chasers many times only get paid when their client is successful in a settlement, so they will keep taking it to court forever in order to get paid.

Hospitals seldom get dragged into a suit. It's the malpractice insurance the doctor carries for protection against lawsuits. Depending on where they practice, malpractice insurance rates can be very expensive. For instance, general surgery can range from 41K a year to 190K a year. Internal medicine from 8K a year to 47K. Gynecology from 49K a year to 215K.

How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020? | LeverageRx

Remember that's just the doctors. Nurses also need to carry malpractice insurance. A doctor or nurse practicing without malpractice insurance is like driving your car without insurance, or owning a house. Chances are nothing will happen, but all it takes is one time, and it ruins the rest of your life.