Shootings in Britain

[2aguy]

I post facts, and research, you post feelings and emotions.

Now, since you can't touch the facts, the truth and reality.......you try the "you are posting propaganda," crap.

You are weak, lame and have nothing on your side to support what you believe.

More projection.

Since you love research so much....

I just averaged the studies at the bottom......I took only studies that exluded military and police gun use.....notice, theses studies which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

I post facts, and research, you post feelings and emotions.

Now, since you can't touch the facts, the truth and reality.......you try the "you are posting propaganda," crap.

You are weak, lame and have nothing on your side to support what you believe.

More projection.

Let me help you with the questions....since you refuse to answer them....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

A woman using a gun is less likely to be raped and more likely to not be injured during the attack....

Guns Effective Defense Against Rape


However, most recent studies with improved methodology are consistently showing that the more forceful the resistance, the lower the risk of a completed rape, with no increase in physical injury. Sarah Ullman's original research (Journal of Interpersonal Violence, 1998) and critical review of past studies (Criminal Justice and Behavior, 1997) are especially valuable in solidifying this conclusion.

I wish to single out one particular subtype of physical resistance: Use of a weapon, and especially a firearm, is statistically a woman's best means of resistance, greatly enhancing her odds of escaping both rape and injury, compared to any other strategy of physical or verbal resistance. This conclusion is drawn from four types of information.

First, a 1989 study (Furby, Journal of Interpersonal Violence) found that both male and female survey respondents judged a gun to be the most effective means that a potential rape victim could use to fend off the assault. Rape "experts" considered it a close second, after eye-gouging.

Second, raw data from the 1979-1985 installments of the Justice Department's annual National Crime Victim Survey show that when a woman resists a stranger rape with a gun, the probability of completion was 0.1 percent and of victim injury 0.0 percent, compared to 31 percent and 40 percent, respectively, for all stranger rapes (Kleck, Social Problems, 1990).

Third, a recent paper (Southwick, Journal of Criminal Justice, 2000) analyzed victim resistance to violent crimes generally, with robbery, aggravated assault and rape considered together. Women who resisted with a gun were 2.5 times more likely to escape without injury than those who did not resist and 4 times more likely to escape uninjured than those who resisted with any means other than a gun. Similarly, their property losses in a robbery were reduced more than six-fold and almost three-fold, respectively, compared to the other categories of resistance strategy.

Fourth, we have two studies in the last 20 years that directly address the outcomes of women who resist attempted rape with a weapon. (Lizotte, Journal of Quantitative Criminology, 1986; Kleck, Social Problems, 1990.) The former concludes,"Further, women who resist rape with a gun or knife dramatically decrease their probability of completion." (Lizotte did not analyze victim injuries apart from the rape itself.) The latter concludes that "resistance with a gun or knife is the most effective form of resistance for preventing completion of a rape"; this is accomplished "without creating any significant additional risk of other injury."

The best conclusion from available scientific data, then, is when avoidance of rape has failed and one must choose between being raped and resisting, a woman's best option is to resist with a gun in her hands.

 

[2aguy]

Here’s a problem we don’t have in the UK compared to America, an interesting article from your favourite source, Mother Jones Gun violence costs America $229 billion a year—more than $700 for every man, woman, and child an article from 2015, granted, but arguably more relevant today.

And 27 years of experience in the U.S......as global crime rates went down around the world.......here in the U.S. as more people own and carry guns, our violent crime rates fell more....

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 19.4 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2019...guess what happened...

New Concealed Carry Report For 2020: 19.48 Million Permit Holders, 820,000 More Than Last Year despite many states shutting down issuing permits because of the Coronavirus - Crime Prevention Research Center


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[2aguy]

Yeah...this isn't England....but it is still and Island

Man shot through front door of his home in Northern Ireland

Incident took place at around 10.30pm on Tuesday

www.independent.co.uk

 

[2aguy]

You stated that crime rates around the world, including the U.S. were all going down.

No, I didn’t. I even copied the original post in case you miss read it. Here I’ll post it again until it finally penetrates your consciousness.

“And again we have a fine example of the “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” fallacy. No social survey or academic research has ever mentioned gun ownership as a factor in the decline in gun murder rates or crime rates. This is further illustrated that the same rates declined throughout the Western world over the same period in countries with gun control laws. “ Post #493 (my emphasis)

Yes...actually, you did. I posted that the crime rates in the U.S. went down as more AMerican own and carry guns, you then went on to say that that didn't prove that gun ownership caused the drop, since crime rates were falling around the world....

1) I did not use the fact that as crime rates fell gun ownership was increasing in the U.S. to say that gun ownership lowered the crime rate.....that is a separate argument.......I point out that as gun murder fell 40%, gun crime fell 75%, and violent crime fell 72%, this showed that gun ownership does not increase the crime rates ........and this is demonstrated over 27 years of actual experience in this country.

2)I make a separate case that concealed carry helps to lower the crime rate and I listed studies that showed this result.

You deny all of it, then deny making the claims you made........you are weak.

Seems reading and comprehension are not your strong points.

Some more information on the shooting that left a 32 year old woman shot ........caught in the crossfire between two rival gangs...........in Britain....

Tell us, oh genius......if these criminals have guns, illegal guns since they can't own them as British citizens and can't have them since they are criminals....

Which British gun control law kept these guys from walking into a mall, a school, a theater and shooting random people? Please, explain....

This is the moment a crowd of people rushed into a shop in panic to flee a shooting between rival gangs which left an innocent woman fighting for her life.

Security cameras show terror-stricken passers-by running into Sultan Food and Wine in Hackney, East London, to escape three shots fired by a gunman just yards away.

A 32-year-old woman is in a critical condition in hospital after being shot just below her neck on Sunday evening.

Dramatic moment terrified crowd rushes into a shop to flee gunshots

Security cameras show terror-stricken passers-by running into Sultan Food and Wine in Hackney, East London, to escape three shots fired by a gunman just yards away.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Vagabond63]

Since you love research so much...

Actual research based on objective facts, certainly.

However the drivel you keep regurgitating time after time after time after time is hardly research, I believe it’s generally called “junk science.” Every one of those figures you quote is based on subjective opinions from surveys carried out decades ago and used by the “gun guru” Gary Gleck and co. Even the data itself admits these are ESTIMATES and IMPLIED numbers. There is no objective factual data in any of these “studies”.

 

[Vagabond63]

Let me help you with the questions....since you refuse to answer them.... Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

Oh god grief! Yet more regurgitated BS from your firehose of falsehood. An article by Robert J. Wooley, who was fired from his job, for sexual assault! Still, I suppose that makes him an “expert” on the subject.

From your article, “The available scientific literature on this question is divided, with some studies concluding physical resistance — with all types considered together — increases a woman's chance of the rape being completed and/or that she will be seriously injured. (This wording is unavoidable but is not meant to imply that the rape itself is not a grave injury.) Others find the opposite, again with all forms of physical resistance analyzed as one.”

Even then, your article states that the overwhelming majority of cases, the victim was intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, this would make having a gun, useless.

 

[Vagabond63]

As to the cost.....you don't look at the savings when Americans stop rape, robberies and murders with their legal guns... But we have....

Oh, so you admit you work for “The truth about Guns”, I always suspected you were a shill for some gun nut group.

As to your article, it takes made up numbers based on opinion polls, multiplies them by 100, adds a monetary value and voilà actual facts are suddenly disproved!

Yeah, right, only in your dream world.

 

[Vagabond63]

Facts, truth and reality are not your strong points.........

Projecting again, I see. No surprise there.

 

[Vagabond63]

You refuse to answer the questions....

Nope, answered them twice now. Remember, you’re supposed to hold your breath if you want a different answer.

 

[Vagabond63]

Meanwhile in an America awash with easily obtained guns, (roughly two for every man, woman and child in the country), this goes on, on a daily basis.

Two killed in double shooting near Jeffersontown

Two people killed yesterday in Louisville, Kentucky. No sign of any good guy with a gun.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article247495910.html

On Sunday, “Witnesses told investigators that the man driving the vehicle that crashed got out with a handgun and ran inside a nearby Speedway gas station before running out into the middle of the intersection and firing multiple shots, Truex said.”

Meanwhile in Baltimore… Four Shot In Early Morning Shootings, One In Critical Condition

…and no good guys with guns again.

Sunday seems to be a busy day for shootings in America.

UPDATE: BCA investigating officer involved shooting in Albert Lea

I could go on and on and on, but then I'd be channelling 2guy.

 

[2aguy]

Since you love research so much...

Actual research based on objective facts, certainly.

However the drivel you keep regurgitating time after time after time after time is hardly research, I believe it’s generally called “junk science.” Every one of those figures you quote is based on subjective opinions from surveys carried out decades ago and used by the “gun guru” Gary Gleck and co. Even the data itself admits these are ESTIMATES and IMPLIED numbers. There is no objective factual data in any of these “studies”.

Again......research done by the Centers for Disease Control and the Department of Justice....you twit. Using actual research methods. And those are only two out of about 17 studies on the subject.........

And you can bet that the researchers at the CDC and DOJ were anti-gun researchers as were Lott and Kleck when they did their research....

I just averaged the studies at the bottom......I took only studies that exluded military and police gun use.....notice, theses studies which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

Let me help you with the questions....since you refuse to answer them.... Guns Effective Defense Against Rape

Oh god grief! Yet more regurgitated BS from your firehose of falsehood. An article by Robert J. Wooley, who was fired from his job, for sexual assault! Still, I suppose that makes him an “expert” on the subject.

From your article, “The available scientific literature on this question is divided, with some studies concluding physical resistance — with all types considered together — increases a woman's chance of the rape being completed and/or that she will be seriously injured. (This wording is unavoidable but is not meant to imply that the rape itself is not a grave injury.) Others find the opposite, again with all forms of physical resistance analyzed as one.”

Even then, your article states that the overwhelming majority of cases, the victim was intoxicated by alcohol or drugs, this would make having a gun, useless.

Moron....for the cases where the woman was attacked when she wasn't drunk or on drugs....guns save her from the rape.....and is the most effective method to do so......over any other option......

 

[2aguy]

As to the cost.....you don't look at the savings when Americans stop rape, robberies and murders with their legal guns... But we have....

Oh, so you admit you work for “The truth about Guns”, I always suspected you were a shill for some gun nut group.

As to your article, it takes made up numbers based on opinion polls, multiplies them by 100, adds a monetary value and voilà actual facts are suddenly disproved!

Yeah, right, only in your dream world.

Wow...you really are stupid.......I don't work for any group....you twit.

Any facts or statistics that show you are wrong you simply dismiss.....must be nice for your side, never having to prove your case......you twit.

 

[2aguy]

Meanwhile in an America awash with easily obtained guns, (roughly two for every man, woman and child in the country), this goes on, on a daily basis.

Two killed in double shooting near Jeffersontown

Two people killed yesterday in Louisville, Kentucky. No sign of any good guy with a gun.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article247495910.html

On Sunday, “Witnesses told investigators that the man driving the vehicle that crashed got out with a handgun and ran inside a nearby Speedway gas station before running out into the middle of the intersection and firing multiple shots, Truex said.”

Meanwhile in Baltimore… Four Shot In Early Morning Shootings, One In Critical Condition

…and no good guys with guns again.

Sunday seems to be a busy day for shootings in America.

UPDATE: BCA investigating officer involved shooting in Albert Lea

I could go on and on and on, but then I'd be channelling 2guy.

And again...

1.1 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, robberies and murders........from the CDC....

1.5 million times a year Americans use their legal guns to stop rapes, robberies and murders......from the Department of Justice.....

I just averaged the studies at the bottom......I took only studies that exluded military and police gun use.....notice, theses studies which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

Meanwhile in an America awash with easily obtained guns, (roughly two for every man, woman and child in the country), this goes on, on a daily basis.

Two killed in double shooting near Jeffersontown

Two people killed yesterday in Louisville, Kentucky. No sign of any good guy with a gun.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article247495910.html

On Sunday, “Witnesses told investigators that the man driving the vehicle that crashed got out with a handgun and ran inside a nearby Speedway gas station before running out into the middle of the intersection and firing multiple shots, Truex said.”

Meanwhile in Baltimore… Four Shot In Early Morning Shootings, One In Critical Condition

…and no good guys with guns again.

Sunday seems to be a busy day for shootings in America.

UPDATE: BCA investigating officer involved shooting in Albert Lea

I could go on and on and on, but then I'd be channelling 2guy.

Hey....doofus.......there are 330 million people in the United States in a land mass the size of Europe.....

only 19.4 million Americans, plus.......have the ability to legally carry their guns in public.....and even then...if they aren't the actual victim, there is no reason for them to intervene....you doofus........that is what police are for.......

 

[2aguy]

An update to the list of research on carry laws lowering the crime rate....

Original Post November 2, 2014: A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the peer-reviewed research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here. For those interested in seeing our debate with Scientific American over whether some of the studies listed below should be included in our list, please see the discussion available here. This list includes papers involve US data (whether broken down at the city, county or state level), which is preferable over arbitrarily picking some small portion of the country.

UPDATED List:

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns, John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Lott-Mustard-JLS.pdf

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

The Concealed‐Handgun Debate, John R. Lott, Jr., Journal of Legal Studies, January 1998

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Bronars_Lott_AER_1998.pdf

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Mustard-JLE-Polic-Deaths-Gun-Control.pdf

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Benson-Mast-JLE.pdf

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/tideman.pdf

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Moody_JLE.pdf

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Maltz.pdf

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001 — see Table 3 on page 679

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/whitney.pdf

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=320102

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Helland-Tabarrok-Placebo-Laws.pdf

Abortion and Crime: Unwanted children and out-of-wedlock births, John R. Lott, Jr and John Whitley, October 2006.– page 14, Table 2.

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001 — page 707, fn. 29

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Marvell.pdf

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=161637

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr. — many places in the text.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=320107

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1EVK7W2Y6MDD1DBWR57G

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

https://crimeresearch.org/wp-conten...An-Exercise-in-Replication.proof_.revised.pdf

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13504851.2013.854294#.UsruMfvF2uP

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008 It is also available here..

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

http://econjwatch.org/articles/the-debate-on-shall-issue-laws-continued

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

http://econjwatch.org/articles/did-...-to-the-nrc-a-note-on-aneja-donohue-and-zhang

“On the Choice of Control Variables in the Crime Equation” by Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Oxford Bulletin of Economics and Statistics, Volume 72, Issue 5, pages 696–715, October 2010.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1468-0084.2010.00602.x/abstract

“The Impact of Right-to-Carry Laws: A Critique of the 2014 Version of Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang,” Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Econ Journal Watch, January 2018: 51-66.

https://search.proquest.com/openvie...dd6f396754f/1?pq-origsite=gscholar&cbl=696386

“Do Right to Carry Laws Increase Violent Crime? A Comment on Donohue, Aneja, and Weber,” Carlisle E. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, Econ Journal Watch, Volume 16, Number 1, March 2019: 84-96.

https://econjwatch.org/File+download/1104/MoodyMarvellMar2019.pdf?mimetype=pdf

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.
Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

A detailed discussion of the National Research Council report is available here. We have reservations for many research papers on both sides of this debate, so inclusion here doesn’t mean that we think that the estimates were done correctly, but to give you information on the number of peer-reviewed academic papers t

 

[2aguy]

Meanwhile in an America awash with easily obtained guns, (roughly two for every man, woman and child in the country), this goes on, on a daily basis.

Two killed in double shooting near Jeffersontown

Two people killed yesterday in Louisville, Kentucky. No sign of any good guy with a gun.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article247495910.html

On Sunday, “Witnesses told investigators that the man driving the vehicle that crashed got out with a handgun and ran inside a nearby Speedway gas station before running out into the middle of the intersection and firing multiple shots, Truex said.”

Meanwhile in Baltimore… Four Shot In Early Morning Shootings, One In Critical Condition

…and no good guys with guns again.

Sunday seems to be a busy day for shootings in America.

UPDATE: BCA investigating officer involved shooting in Albert Lea

I could go on and on and on, but then I'd be channelling 2guy.

And another thing, you ignorant twit.........

Even when people have their legal guns with them, there is no reason in most of your examples for someone to use that gun to intervene.........legally they risk prosecution even if they are in the right.......as the two two people in Missouri who kept blm morons off of their property are experiencing right now........

And another thing, you doofus........95% of our gun crime is a direct result of the policies of the democrat party here in the U.S.....in the cities they completely control, top to bottom, they release violent, repeat gun offenders over and over again....it is these individuals who do the majority of all gun crime...not normal gun owners...

That you can't understand that shows you have no capacity for understanding the actual issues involved....but you sure can emote, and prattle on....

 

[2aguy]

Meanwhile in an America awash with easily obtained guns, (roughly two for every man, woman and child in the country), this goes on, on a daily basis.

Two killed in double shooting near Jeffersontown

Two people killed yesterday in Louisville, Kentucky. No sign of any good guy with a gun.

https://www.kentucky.com/news/local/counties/fayette-county/article247495910.html

On Sunday, “Witnesses told investigators that the man driving the vehicle that crashed got out with a handgun and ran inside a nearby Speedway gas station before running out into the middle of the intersection and firing multiple shots, Truex said.”

Meanwhile in Baltimore… Four Shot In Early Morning Shootings, One In Critical Condition

…and no good guys with guns again.

Sunday seems to be a busy day for shootings in America.

UPDATE: BCA investigating officer involved shooting in Albert Lea

I could go on and on and on, but then I'd be channelling 2guy.

This is a good one...

Confirming ìMore Guns, Less Crimeî

Florenz Plassmann*& John Whitley**

Analyzing county-level data for the entire United States from 1977 to 2000, we find annual reductions in murder rates between 1.5% and 2.3% for each additional year that a right-to-carry law is in effect. For the first five years that such a law is in effect, the total benefit from reduced crimes usually ranges between approximately $2 billion and $3 billion per year.

Ayres and Donohue have simply misread their own results. Their own most general specification that breaks down the impact of the law on a year-byyear basis shows large crime-reducing benefits. Virtually none of their claims that their county-level hybrid model implies initial significant increases in crime are correct. Overall, the vast majority of their estimatesóbased on data up to 1997óactually demonstrate that right-to-carry laws produce substantial crime-reducing benefits. We show that their models also do an extremely poor job of predicting the changes in crime rates after 1997.

http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

 

[2aguy]

When good people have guns and have a need, they stop violent criminals...even mass public shooters...

Dallas, Texas, July 25, 2020, Fox 4 News (Dallas)

Dallas police said three men were shot and a woman was hit by shrapnel when someone opened fire outside a sports bar in North Oak Cliff Saturday night.
The shooter was reportedly among three men who were turned away from Harris House of Heroes II sports bar, just before midnight, because the establishment was at full capacity. . . .
Police said the shooter went to the back of the sports bar, where he was “confronted by armed partrons,” and they exchanged gunfire.
The shooter fled before police arrived, and remains at-large.
David Sentendrey, “4 injured in shooting at Dallas sports bar after men not allowed in due to COVID-19 restrictions,” Fox 4 News (Dallas), July 26, 2020.

Brownsburg, Indiana, July 16, 2020, WISHTV (Indianapolis, Indiana)

Fortunately, one of the people wounded in this shooting had a permitted concealed handgun and was able to then get out of his car and shoot the attacker. Indiana has 18.5% of the adult population with concealed handgun permits.

22-year-old Joshua Christopher Hayes launched an unprovoked attack against two men working in Brownsburg Cemetery Tuesday around 1:15 p.m. Hayes first chased 36-year-old Seth Robertson to a nearby intersection before he fatally shot Robertson.

Hayes then chased after the second man and shot a third man who was stopped at a traffic light nearby. The third man was legally armed and fatally shot Hayes.
“This tragic event could have been much more disastrous. So, victim three not only saved victim two’s life, but he saved potentially the lives of many others,” BPD Capt. Jennifer Barrett. “Victim three did exactly what anybody would have wanted him to do at that scene that day.”
Travis Robinson, “Mental health issues contributed to fatal Brownsburg shooting,” WISHTV (Indianapolis), July 16, 2020.

Kwethluk, Alaska, May 16, 2020, multiple sources.

This attack appears to have been a well-planned mass public shooting where the attacker had brought multiple guns and a bullet-resistant vest and helmet. The fact that the attacker was charged with four counts of attempted murder shows what might have happened if the armed civilian who stopped the attack hadn’t been present.

According to state troopers, a 19-year-old man, Brian Nicolai, broke into the village public safety building dressed for combat. He staged rifles inside, and activated the fire alert system. When village police officers responded, the officers say that Nicolai shot at them. But no one was hurt, largely thanks to an armed resident who got Nicolai to give up his weapon and lie on the ground. . . .
Kwethluk’s Public Safety Administrative Chief, Nicolai Joseph, said that a potential mass shooting was avoided on May 16. According to state troopers, Brian Nicolai was wearing a bullet-proof vest and helmet when he activated the village fire alert system. Village Police Officer Tiger Lee was the first to respond to the fire alarm. When he arrived, he said that Nicolai pointed a rifle at him and pulled the trigger. . . .
That resident was Casey Thompson, according to the trooper’s report. Thompson, armed with a rifle, was able to get the shooter to drop his weapon, the report said. Thompson declined to talk with KYUK about the incident.
Lee said that he’s glad Thompson had a gun . . . .
Greg Kim, “After armed resident thwarts shooting, Kwethluk VPOs consider carrying guns,” KYUK, May 22, 2020.

Brian Nicolai, of Kwethluk, is charged with four counts of attempted first-degree murder, third-degree assault, first-degree burglary, third-degree criminal mischief and first-degree criminal trespass. He was arraigned Saturday in Bethel court. . . .
A Kwethluk resident who saw what was happening left the scene, returned with a rifle and talked Nicolai into lowering his weapon. Nicolai lay down on the floor and was quickly subdued by village police officers.
Bethel-based troopers in Kwethluk responded to a report of an active shooter inside the public safety building at 5:18 p.m . . .
Dorothy Chomicz, “Man in Southwest Alaska charged with shooting at police officer,” Fairbanks Daily News, May 18, 2020.

Tulsa, Oklahoma, March 27, 2020, Channel 6

A woman named Ashley Porter started firing at a group of people who were standing in a parking lot outside a marijuana dispensary in Tulsa, Oklahoma.

Detectives say Porter got into an argument with someone near a convenience store over a parking spot.
They say surveillance video from the marijuana dispensary next door shows the argument, then Porter leaving in her car.
They say the video shows Porter coming back minutes later and firing shots toward the crowd of people in front of the store.
Detectives say an armed citizen pulled out a gun and fired back, killing porter. . . .
Detectives say the armed citizen was questioned and released. . . .
Reagan Ledbetter, “Family Devastated After Woman Killed In Tulsa,” NewsOn6, March 30th 2020.

Additional stories are available here and here.

Near Fort Worth, Texas, December 29, 2019.


Note: The above video puts up some options in the top left hand corner that block seeing one of the parishioners who shot the murderer.

Three people, including the shooter, were shot in attack just before 10 a.m. at the West Freeway Church of Christ at 1900 south Las Vegas Trail in White Settlement, which is near Fort Worth. The attacker died at the scene after being shot by two of the parishioners. Four other parishioners also drew their permitted concealed handguns.

The Tarrant county sheriff at press conference after the shooting: “Good people stepped up and stopped it before it got worse.”
“The citizens who were inside that church undoubtedly saved 242 other parishioners, and that might get swept aside,” Texas DPS Director Jeoff Williams said. “It was miraculous. The true heroes in all this are the people who were sitting in those pews today and responded, the immediate responders … it was truly heroic.”

Duncan, Oklahoma, November 18, 2019

There was a shooting at a Walmart parking lot in Duncan, Oklahoma that left two people murdered.

From USA Today (though it is buried in the story): “Aaron Helton, an Army veteran, said he was at the Walmart around 9:45 a.m. when he heard nine shots and saw the gunman, weapon in hand. According to Helton, another man walked up, put a pistol to the gunman’s head and told him to stop shooting. Helton said he saw the shooter was turning the gun on himself and looked away.”

From CNN, after killing two people in the parking lot, “the shooter shot himself after a bystander confronted him with a firearm.“

From KSWO ABC Channel 7 in Oklahoma: “Multiple witnesses have said the gunman shot two people in a vehicle and a civilian with a gun confronted him, causing the gunman to turn the gun on himself. We are working to confirm that story with Duncan police.“

Newnan, Georgia, August 13, 2019

This is an amazing story that was caught on video. An employee who wasn’t even scheduled to work that day, but was simply hanging around the bar outside in the parking lot, stopped an attack that the police say would have likely resulted in multiple deaths. Note in the cover picture for this video that the bar has multiple gun free zone signs. From Fox 5 in Atlanta:

Deputies in Coweta County say an armed off-duty employee may have stopped a mass shooting at a crowded bar in Newnan Saturday morning.
FOX 5 News has the exclusive surveillance video of the shooting outside Fat Boys Bar and Grill on Highway 16. Deputies say that video shows Kevintez Mathewis on his way into the bar with a handgun when Ben McCoy confronts him and is shot multiple times. He drew the gunman’s attention and then drew his fire. . . .

From Channel 11 News in Atlanta:

McCoy heard the shots and grabbed his gun. Investigators reportedly said that Matthewis fired several rounds at McCoy. “He put his life on the line to try and protect the bar that he loves,” bar manager Emily McGhin said. . .

Colonial Heights, Tennessee, February 13, 2019
A shooting at a dentist office in Colonial Heights, Tennessee was stopped by Larry Seagroves, a concealed handgun permit holder. After the killer, Harry Weaver, fatally shot one person, Kelly Weaver, his wife, he turned his gun on other people in the office. One of them, a dental hygienist, Sabrina Steal, said: “then he raised a gun to shoot me” (see video). Larry Seagroves shot the killer, wounding him before he could shoot these other people. After the attack, Harry Weaver told the police: “You all wouldn’t be dealing with me right now if the hero hadn’t stepped in.”

WJHL TV Channel 11 in Johnson City, Tennessee reports: “It was just a horrific situation that police said could have possibly been even worse if a patient at that dentist office didn’t take action. We are talking about a man identified as Larry Seagroves, a man with a carry permit.”

Sullivan County Sheriff Jeff Cassidy said: “He was a concealed carry permit holder and I’m going to call him a hero today.”

The court hearing reported in the video took place on March 22, 2019. More information is available here.

Birmingham, Alabama, October 27, 2018
A masked man entered a McDonald’s restaurant and immediately started firing his gun. A concealed handgun permit holder returned firing killing the attacker.

“He’s my hero,” he said. “Because I can only imagine how it would’ve went if he wasn’t armed. We might not be here having this interview.” . . .
He said he heard more than 15 shots fired. . . .
— Markus Washington, an employee at the McDonalds’, to WAFF Channel 48 News

From WBRC Channel 6 in Birmingham, Alabama has this note:

A masked man entered the restaurant when an employee opened the door for a father and his sons to leave. The masked man then opened fire in the restaurant. At that point, the father began shooting at the masked man. Both the father and the masked man were struck along with one of the children. Police later confirmed that the masked man is now deceased, and the father had non-life threatening injuries. A minor had non-life-threatening injuries.

The motive of the attacker isn’t clear. While it is possible that robbery was the motive, the fact that the attacker immediately began firing his gun as soon as he entered the restaurant means it is very likely that his goal was most likely just to kill people.
Louisville, Kentucky, Wednesday, October 24, 2018
The national media has picked up on this story because of the killer, Gregory Bush, is racist, but they are ignoring the fact that a white civilian with a concealed handgun permit stopped the attack. Both the people murdered at the Koger — Maurice Stallard, 69, and Vickie Jones, 67 — were black. Bush had apparently tried to do an attack at a black church before shooting blacks at the Kroger indicates he was trying to kill as many blacks as possible and that the number of blacks killed could have been much worse if it wasn’t for the concealed handgun permit holder.

The Louisville Courier Journal reports that after Bush had visited the church:

The first call came into MetroSafe at 2:54 p.m. reporting that shots were fired inside the store. There were reports of “multiple injuries.” . . .
According to the Jeffersontown police, the suspect, Gregory Alan Bush, entered the grocery store and “gunned down” the first victim, and then exited the store where he killed the second victim.
While in the parking lot, a citizen who possessed a concealed carry permit engaged with the suspect, according to Jeffersontown police.
“Multiple rounds were fired by both the suspect and the intervening citizen,” Jeffersontown police wrote in a statement. “Neither the suspect nor the involved citizen, nor any other bystanders were injured with this exchange of gunfire.”
Bush fled the scene in his vehicle. Police located Bush and his vehicle on Hurstbourne Parkway, next to the Stony Brook Center, where he was taken into custody. . . .

Another story on the case notes: “The police chief clarified that . . . the woman killed in the parking lot was shot by the suspect before the exchange [with the permit holder] began . . . .”

Titusville, Florida, August 4, 2018
A shooting at a back to school event for children and their families had a shooting that was quickly stopped by a concealed handgun permit holder. Something between 150 and 200 people (video here puts it at over 200), primarily children, were present at the event.

From Fox 32 WOFL in Orlando, Florida.

Titusville Police still have not released the name of the man who stopped the shooter at a park on Saturday, but they are calling him a hero.
The gunshots still echo across social media, after the emcee at Titusville’s Peace in the City event posted a Facebook live video of the shooting. When a good Samaritan carrying a licensed concealed weapon shot the attacker, police say he did the right thing.
“Based on the information that we’ve gathered,” said Titusville Police Sgt. William Amos. “This person stepped in and saved a lot of people’s lives.” . . .

Here is another statement from the Titusville Police via the Orlando Sentinel on the evening of August 6th, 2018.

Titusville Police are calling the bystander who shot a gunman who opened fire at a park full of kids on Saturday a “hero.” On Monday, police said they aren’t releasing the names of those involved and said the citizen who returned fire on the suspect won’t be facing charges.
“He’s a hero,” Titusville Police Sgt. Bill Amos said. “This park was filled with families and children and, at that time, it was an active shooter situation for him and he was trained enough to deal with it and he did.” . . .

Tumwater, Washington, June 18, 2018

“He is a hero,” Adams said. “He took action. I really think more people could have been shot… he saved us all.”
A wild rampage at a Walmart in Tumwater, Washington was stopped when three concealed handgun permit holders confronted and killed the attacker. The attacker had carjacked a vehicle that he drove to the Walmart. Once there, the attacker stole ammunition and then went out of the store, continuing to shoot at people. He unsuccessfully tried to carjack another vehicle, seriously wounding the driver. When he attempted to carjack a second car, two armed customers shot dead the attacker.
According to the local Fox affiliate and Fox News, the man who killed the attacker is a pastor with five kids who was out with his family.
More details are available at KOMO News here.

Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Thursday, May 24, 2018
Two men who had handguns in their cars, Juan Carlos Nazario, 35, and Bryan Whittle, 39, stopped what likely would have been a mass shooting at Louie’s Grill & Bar in Oklahoma City. Police Capt. Bo Matthews said: “You can say they’re heroes, which is a very good thing to say.” Nazario is a security guard, and Whittle was able to legally carry a gun openly without a permit (it is unknown whether he had a concealed handgun permit, though it wasn’t necessary for this case). The shooter, Alexander Tilghman, shot at people “from a position outside the front door” of the restaurant. It was from that position that he was stopped by these two heroes. It turns out that Whittle’s shot killed the gunman.

From USA Today:

The two, police say, prevented what could have been a deadly attack Thursday night after they armed themselves and took down the shooter, Alexander Tilghman. Both say they don’t feel like heroes. . . .

The police captain also said this:

“They were able to shoot the suspect and put an end to a very dangerous situation,” Mathews said.

The way that the attack was stopped was described this way:

“Drop the gun!” [Nazario] yelled repeatedly. Tilghman didn’t respond. He raised the gun again and fired a round in the parking lot.
Nazario fired two shots. “He just fell to the ground.”
Despite a restaurant full of innocent lives potentially saved, Nazario said he doesn’t feel like a hero.

“I just can’t understand being called a hero when someone’s life was taken,” he said. “I just did what I had to do. I’m very glad no innocent lives were taken but ultimately, there was a life taken.” . . .

Both Alexander Tilghman, the killer, and Juan Carlos Nazario were security guards. We will continue to check whether Whittle had a concealed handgun permit.

The District Attorney issued this statement: “The two civilians who engaged, and ultimately neutralized the threat posed by Tilghman, were justified and compliant with the law when they employed deadly force.“

San Antonio, Texas, December 7, 2017 (ABC 13 in San Antonio, Time Magazine)
This case is an exception to all the other cases shown here in that it received national coverage on Time magazine’s website. A man with a gun was about to start shooting a father’s children as they were walking out of a restroom when the father killed the attacker. This case was also unusual from the other cases above is that the attack was part of some other crime, a robbery. Police stated that the permit holder saved at least several lives. From ABC 13:

. . . Police say the robber approached the father around 8:30 Wednesday night while he was waiting for his kids to leave the bathroom.
That’s when the robber pointed his gun at the family.
The father pulled out his own gun and killed the robber in the middle of the dining area.
Police say the father is a licensed carrier. He is not facing any charges.
Officials also say the father saved several lives. . . .

Rockledge, Florida, November 17, 2017 (Florida Today, WFTV.com in Orlando)
Two concealed handgun permit holders stopped an attack at Schlenker Automotive repair shop at 4:30 PM on the Friday after Thanksgiving. The attacker, Robert Bailey, was armed with a .45-caliber handgun and “multiple magazines” and killed one person and severely wounded another in the business’ parking lot. Bailey continued shooting inside the shop. From Florida Today:

Two other workers — both concealed weapons permit holders — confronted the gunman and engaged in a shootout that left the suspect wounded. Bailey continues to recover at Holmes Regional Medical Center in Melbourne. . . .

Video here from WFTV stated: “The police say this could have been even worse.” “This business was packed today with customers and employees,” noted Karen Parks, a reporter at the scene. Parks also reported that the police referred to the permit holder as a “good samaritan.”

According to news reports, Bailey had no connection to the auto shop. Indeed, he didn’t even own a car. It appears as if Bailey had selected this target simply to kill people.

Clearlake Oaks, California, October 23, 2017 (FBI report on active shooter incidents for 2016-17)
From the FBI report on page 5. At the first target, the killer was forced to stop his attack because of police arriving at the scene. At the second target, a concealed handgun permit holder forced the attacker to break off his attack.

On October 23, 2017, at 11:23 a.m., Alan Ashmore, 61, armed with a shotgun and a handgun, allegedly began firing into several homes and a vehicle in Clearlake Oaks, California, killing two people, includ-ing his father, and wounding one. Another person was wounded while fleeing out of a residence window. The shooter then shot and wounded a responding law enforcement officer before fleeing in his vehicle. The shooter drove to a nearby gas station and exchanged gunfire with the vendor, who possessed a valid firearms permit. The shooter fled the scene in his vehicle and drove to another gas station where he firedmore shots.

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