Shootings in Britain

[2aguy]

Yep....British gun control is working as expected.....if criminals want guns, they get guns. Normal, law abiding British citizens.....they obey those gun control laws...too bad they aren't the ones that need to be stopped....

It used to be that British criminals would use their guns to wound, not kill.....that may be changing...as crime changes over time...becoming more violent when the police can't, or won't do their jobs...

A father in his 20s was shot dead just yards from his doorstep in a leafy London suburb in the early hours of this morning, leaving his family 'devastated'.

Shocked neighbours say they heard a 'single gunshot,' followed by the 'screeching of tyres' just after 1am in a residential road in North Cheam, South West London today.

Horror in leafy London suburb as man in his 20s is shot dead

Armed police were called to a residential road in North Cheam, South West London, at about 1.10am this morning after the victim, a father in his 20s was found with a gunshot wound.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[bluzman61]

Yep....British gun control is working as expected.....if criminals want guns, they get guns. Normal, law abiding British citizens.....they obey those gun control laws...too bad they aren't the ones that need to be stopped....

It used to be that British criminals would use their guns to wound, not kill.....that may be changing...as crime changes over time...becoming more violent when the police can't, or won't do their jobs...

A father in his 20s was shot dead just yards from his doorstep in a leafy London suburb in the early hours of this morning, leaving his family 'devastated'.

Shocked neighbours say they heard a 'single gunshot,' followed by the 'screeching of tyres' just after 1am in a residential road in North Cheam, South West London today.

Horror in leafy London suburb as man in his 20s is shot dead

Armed police were called to a residential road in North Cheam, South West London, at about 1.10am this morning after the victim, a father in his 20s was found with a gunshot wound.

www.dailymail.co.uk

So sad to see this.

 

[Vagabond63]

Here....again...and nice dodge.......you guys say that gun control works, this article from the British police say that the supply of illegal guns is rising.....

That means there are more guns entering the country.......

So if every British citizen owned a gun, this would prevent criminals obtaining guns how?

If anything it would make it easier for criminal to arm themselves. At no point has anyone ever claimed that gun control works perfectly. Every time any government anywhere makes a commodity Illegal, there will be those who will smuggle that commodity if there is a market for it. Once upon a time, America banned alcohol, that worked out well for you didn't it?

Gun control works. Our gun death rate is a tiny fraction of yours, however you chose to measure it; so is Australia's and New Zealand's where they have comparable controls.

 

[Vagabond63]

The problem you guys have is you seem to think that your gun crime rates are always going to be static

Who says we do? Gun crime rates fluctuate over time, but overall, gun crime in the UK has been declining for decades as trends go. Drug gangs use guns against each other, not their potential "customers"; either to deter or eliminate their rivals. A cynic might argue, let them get on with it, they might kill each other off and solve the problem that way.

 

[Vagabond63]

We have guns...... and criminals have guns and leave them lying around and their children take them.........

Are you seriously suggesting only criminals leave guns lying aroung for their children to take? Seriously?

 

[Vagabond63]

your criminals are becoming more violent, using guns more often and they don't care who they kill now....

Mmm, not so much when looked at over time. The recent rise has many causes, largely as a result of successive Conservative government policies.

Crime figures: Violent crime recorded by police rises by 19%

The number of homicides - including murder and manslaughter - also rose by 14%.

www.bbc.co.uk

Arming the general population, however, is not the answer and would only make matters worse.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

But....But.....they have gun control in Britain......right? Then how did this baby get shot in the head in a country that banned handguns?

4 people shot in the middle of a street in Britain..........in gun controlled Britain....

A two-year-old boy who was shot in the head survived after the bullet missed a crucial artery by 1mm, his family have revealed, as they appealed for anyone with information on the shooting to come forward.

The toddler was one of four people, including his mother, who were shot in Energen Close, Harlesden, north-west London, on 3 June.

London family appeals for information after toddler shot in head

Two-year-old survived shooting in Harlesden after bullet missed artery by 1mm

www.theguardian.com

The UK actually has one of the lowest rates of murder committed by firearms in the entire world.
Which Guns are Legal in the UK? - Southdown Gun Club

In the United Kingdom, access by the general public to firearms is subject to some of the strictest control measures in the world.
Wikipedia.

Practically all gun crime is committed by criminals with illegal weapons either re-calibrated or smuggled in.

 

[Captain Caveman]

So....gun crime in Britain is getting worse....with shooters opening fire, hitting children and their mothers and shooting up parties....but...they have gun control....right?

A man and two women have sustained gunshot wounds after attackers opened fire on people attending a party in Harlow, Essex.

Essex police said the man, who is in his 50s and from nearby Grays, was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries early on Saturday.

Two women in their 20s were taken to hospital with single gunshot wounds, which are not considered to be life-threatening.

Three people shot at party in Essex, say police

Man suffered life-threatening injuries and two women also shot in early hours of Saturday

www.theguardian.com

It's because we have guns. Rather than write a novel to explain which types of guns we have, here's a 5 minute video to explain all, you might be surprised!!

The problem you guys have is you seem to think that your gun crime rates are always going to be static ......... the immigrant gangs controlling the drug trade in Britain are going to show you how you really don't understand crime and illegal activity.

No, crime is getting worse, never denied that, but, some 75% of crime is committed by immigrants (scum from Europe) and alot of crime is between these immigrants.

 

[2aguy]

The problem you guys have is you seem to think that your gun crime rates are always going to be static

Who says we do? Gun crime rates fluctuate over time, but overall, gun crime in the UK has been declining for decades as trends go. Drug gangs use guns against each other, not their potential "customers"; either to deter or eliminate their rivals. A cynic might argue, let them get on with it, they might kill each other off and solve the problem that way.

And that is the same here.......our criminals murder other criminals......meanwhile, 18.2 million Americans own and carry guns for self defense and our gun murder rate did not go up, it went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%......so normal people who not only own guns but carry them do not create more gun crime or more crime in general......

 

[EvilCat Breath]

So....gun crime in Britain is getting worse....with shooters opening fire, hitting children and their mothers and shooting up parties....but...they have gun control....right?

A man and two women have sustained gunshot wounds after attackers opened fire on people attending a party in Harlow, Essex.

Essex police said the man, who is in his 50s and from nearby Grays, was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries early on Saturday.

Two women in their 20s were taken to hospital with single gunshot wounds, which are not considered to be life-threatening.

Three people shot at party in Essex, say police

Man suffered life-threatening injuries and two women also shot in early hours of Saturday

www.theguardian.com

Why don't you start doing a thread on every gun shot incident in this country, 2AGuy. This is your country after all. Why do you think we care if there was a shooting in England? Or France?
Let's start hearing about every one of them in this country.
What? Impossible? That's because there are tens of thousands of them a year. You couldn't type fast enough.
And it's because every Tom, Dick and Harriett has a gun for no good reason.

If the decent people of Seattle all had guns, chop would have had a different outcome.

 

[2aguy]

Here....again...and nice dodge.......you guys say that gun control works, this article from the British police say that the supply of illegal guns is rising.....

That means there are more guns entering the country.......

So if every British citizen owned a gun, this would prevent criminals obtaining guns how?

If anything it would make it easier for criminal to arm themselves. At no point has anyone ever claimed that gun control works perfectly. Every time any government anywhere makes a commodity Illegal, there will be those who will smuggle that commodity if there is a market for it. Once upon a time, America banned alcohol, that worked out well for you didn't it?

Gun control works. Our gun death rate is a tiny fraction of yours, however you chose to measure it; so is Australia's and New Zealand's where they have comparable controls.

And as America shows......more people owning and even carrying guns does not increase the gun murder or gun crime rate.....so what you feel about the issue is just wrong.

In the United States....as more Americans own and carry guns, our gun crime rate went down 75%.....75% can you understand that number? Our gun murder rate went down 49%....our violent crime rate went down 72%....so guns do not cause more crime....more guns do not cause more gun crime...you just don't understand what you are talking about.


What drives crime rates up? Political policies that put violent, repeat gun offenders back on the street with reduced sentences, short sentences, no bail release.....that drives the crime rate. And when politicians focus on guns instead of criminals, the crime rates go up, not down.......

Gun control doesn't work.....you have simply been living in a homogenous society with a culture that has deeply ingrained respect for your betters........namely government and its institutions.....but you have imported immigrants who do not share your values and who don't care about your history, so they are the ones murdering each other in your streets over drug turf.....

 

[2aguy]

your criminals are becoming more violent, using guns more often and they don't care who they kill now....

Mmm, not so much when looked at over time. The recent rise has many causes, largely as a result of successive Conservative government policies.

Crime figures: Violent crime recorded by police rises by 19%

The number of homicides - including murder and manslaughter - also rose by 14%.

www.bbc.co.uk

Arming the general population, however, is not the answer and would only make matters worse.

Except the United States proves you wrong....and you are going to find out how wrong you are as your criminals become more violent...

Again....as more Americans own and carry guns our gun crime rate went down 75%......

How do you explain that with your theory?

Our gun murder rate went down 49%....you can't explain that with your theory....

Our violent crime rate went down 72%...... your can't explain that with your theory.....

Your theory falls apart as more people own and carry guns....

Over the last 27 years, we went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 18.6 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2018...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.
-----

Maine tops ‘safest states’ rankings four years after removing major gun restriction

When Maine passed a “Constitutional Carry” law allowing Maine residents to carry a concealed firearm without any special permit in 2015, opponents of the law forecast a dangerous future for the state. They said the new law would hurt public safety and put Maine kids at risk.



One state representative who opposed the bill went so far as to say it would give Mainers a reason to be afraid every time they went out in public or to work.

Another state representative suggested the law would lead to violent criminals with recent arrests and convictions legally carrying handguns.


-----

Now four years later, Maine has been named the safest state in the nation according to US News and World Report’s public safety rankings, which measures the fifty states based on crime data.



Ranking as the top safest state for violent crime and fourth for property crime, Maine edges out another New England state, Vermont, for the top spot. Of note, Vermont also is a “Constitutional Carry” state. New Hampshire ranks third in the national rankings, giving New England all three of the top spots in the nation.

In 2018, Maine was edged out by Vermont in the same “safest states” ranking, but declared the best state overall in the broader “Crime and Corrections” category.

In 2017, using a different methodology, Maine was ranked second among the fifty states in the “Crime and Corrections” category and also second in the categories used to rank the “safest states.”

The U.S. News and World Report “Best States” rankings are built in partnership with McKinsey & Company, a firm that works closely with state leaders around the nation.

Maine has also ranked at the top of other state rankings. WalletHub.com recently ranked Maine second in “Personal and Residential Safety” among the fifty states, and third overall.
=============

Bolsonaro's Brazil, More Legal Guns, Homicide Rates Down Precipitously

In December, 2018, in an article published by the Wall Street Journal, this pronouncement was made. From the wsj.com:

Now, Brazil is set to embark on an experiment that will determine what happens when you loosen gun restrictions in a country battling an overpowering wave of gun crime.

Homicides in Brazil were at historic highs in 2017. They dropped a bit in 2018, as candidate Bolsonaro ran on reform of the gun laws to allow self defense, and reform of the law to get tough on crime. The homicide numbers dropped from 59,000 in 2017, to 51,000 in 2018. President Bolsonaro was elected in October of 2018.

After taking office on 1 January, 2019, President Bolsonaro issued his first decree reforming some of Brazil's extreme gun laws on 15 January, 2019. The drop in Brazil's homicide rate accelerated.
-------

Early in the Bolsonaro presidency, a Brazilian lawyer prediceted the homicide rate would drop. From ammoland.com:

César Mello, asked that I include information that early reports are showing a 25% drop in Brazil's homicide rate, in the first quarter of 2019. If this trend continues, 16,000 lives will have been saved in the first year of President Bolsonaro's time in office.

The rate reduction was not quite that high. Only 10,000 lives were saved. From wtop.com:

Brazil had 41,635 killings in 2019, down 19% from the prior year and the least number of homicides since 2007, when the so-called Violence Monitor index was launched. It is a partnership between the non-profit Brazilian Forum of Public Security, the University of Sao Paulo’s Center for the Study of Violence, and news website G1, which published the data Friday.

When translated to homicide rates, the rate dropped 17% in 2018, then 23% more in 2019. The population of Brazil in 2019 was 210 million. The rate of homicides per 100,000 was 19.83. That is less than 2/3 of the homicide rate in 2017, which was 30.8.

 

[2aguy]

We have guns...... and criminals have guns and leave them lying around and their children take them.........

Are you seriously suggesting only criminals leave guns lying aroung for their children to take? Seriously?

The vast majority of accidental gun deaths among children happen in the homes of criminals, not law abiding gun owners.

A total of 54 children were accidentally killed by guns in 2018......out of over 70 million children........and the majority of those killed lived with criminals, alcoholics or drug users.

By year...from the Centers for Disease Control...

WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports

Kids <1-14...

2018....54
2017...62
2016...74
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

 

[Coyote]

Gun violence death rates:
US 4.43
UK 0.06

Seems the U.K. is doing something right.

 

[2aguy]

Gun violence death rates:
US 4.43
UK 0.06

Seems the U.K. is doing something right.

And you guys never address the truth......Britain had low gun death rates before they banned their guns....so the gun ban did nothing to their gun crime rates....except now they are going up...after the ban...


Meanwhile, you can't and won't explain how it is, under your theory.....that as more Americans own and carry guns our gun murder rate went down 49%, our gun crime rate went down 75%......

Both points show that gun ownership by normal people does not increase the gun crime rate..........you can't explain that.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Gun violence death rates:
US 4.43
UK 0.06

Seems the U.K. is doing something right.

What is the U.S if you take out black on black ?

 

[Vagabond63]

The vast majority of accidental gun deaths among children happen in the homes of criminals, not law abiding gun owners.

A total of 54 children were accidentally killed by guns in 2018......out of over 70 million children........and the majority of those killed lived with criminals, alcoholics or drug users.

By year...from the Centers for Disease Control...

WISQARS Leading Causes of Death Reports

Kids <1-14...

2018....54
2017...62
2016...74
2015...48
2014...50
2013...69
2012...58
2011...74
2010...62
2009...48
2008...62
2007...65
2006...54
2005...75
2004...63
2003...56
2002...60
2001...72
2000...86
1999...88

Wow.
That's 54 children that would still be alive if there were no guns left lying around, 54 famillies would not be grieving over the loss of a loved one. What I find disturbing is that you seem to believe that 54 dead children is acceptable for a so called, "civilised" society. It's interesting reading when you look at child homicides involving firearms; in 2018 from your source, 57 5-9 year old children were murdered with guns. Fat lot of use your "good guy with a gun" theory was there.

 

[harmonica]

leafy??? leafy?? hahahahhahahahahahahah

 

[harmonica]

Gun violence death rates:
US 4.43
UK 0.06

Seems the U.K. is doing something right.

ditto

 

[2aguy]

Wow.
That's 54 children that would still be alive if there were no guns left lying around, 54 famillies would not be grieving over the loss of a loved one. What I find disturbing is that you seem to believe that 54 dead children is acceptable for a so called, "civilised" society. It's interesting reading when you look at child homicides involving firearms; in 2018 from your source, 57 5-9 year old children were murdered with guns. Fat lot of use your "good guy with a gun" theory was there.

Who said it was acceptable. you dumb ass.......

There are 600 million guns in private hands, over 18.2 million people carry guns for self defense.........and 70 million children in the United States....

Meanwhile, 1.2 million Americans use their legal guns to save lives, and to stop violent rapes, robberies and murders....you doofus....

And here is the actual perspective....and instead of using your emotional black mail, we will look at truth, facts and reality...

1.2 million Americans use their legal guns to save lives....

Meanwhile....from the CDC accidental deaths of children....


Fatal Injury Data | WISQARS | Injury Center | CDC

2018......

Guns......54

Motor vehicle..... 2,456

Suffocation: 1,162

Drowning: 698

Poisoning: 66

Guns: 54



Under age drinking:

Underage Drinking-Why Do Adolescents Drink, What Are the Risks, and How Can Underage Drinking Be Prevented?

Each year, approximately 5,000 young people under the age of 21 die as a result of underage drinking; this includes about 1,900 deaths from motor vehicle crashes, 1,600 as a result of homicides, 300 from suicide, as well as hundreds from other injuries such as falls, burns, and drownings (1–5).

So.....before you start trying to say you care about children, how about caring about all the other ways children die in accidents......in vastly greater numbers than by gun accident...you doofus.....

Meanwhile, think about all the lives saved by normal people who own and carry guns......1.2 million defensive gun uses on average every year, where lives are saved from rape, robbery and murder.........lives you would sacrifice by banning guns for normal people...