Sharing Youtube discussion about LA homeless camps

[Andylusion]

We saw this extensively during the sub-prime crash. What was it? It was having a house, that was declining in value. You borrow $100,000 to purchase a house, and in few years, the house is worth $80,000. Now you owe more money than the house is worth

We saw an epidemic of mortgage fraud 90% of which was committed by unscrupulous lenders leading up to the sub-prime looting:

The Social Structure of Mortgage Discrimination

"Our analyses reveal specific mechanisms through which loan originators identified and gained the trust of black and Latino borrowers in order to place them into higher-cost, higher-risk loans than similarly situated white borrowers.

"Loan originators sought out lists of individuals already borrowing money to buy consumer goods in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods to find potential borrowers, and exploited intermediaries within local social networks, such as community or religious leaders, to gain those borrowers’ trust."

Actually that doesn't mean much. When you want to sell a Chevy, you tend to call people who own Chevys. When you want to sell any production, you market to people who have already bought that product.

Just like if you want to market loans, you market to people who have loans.

But again, you stood against redlining. So what did you expect?

"I want them to make loans to poor minorities, but I don't want them making loans to poor minorities if it isn't a good idea"... well that's why they were not making loans to them to begin with.

 

[georgephillip]

Sure. Economic choices.

Drastic differences in wealth and income between White and Black families today started with state sponsored racial segregation in the early 20th century (if you don't count hundreds of years of chattel slavery and Jim Crow)

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a "state-sponsored system of segregation."


RACE
Historian Says Don't 'Sanitize' How Our Government Created Ghettos
"The government's efforts were "primarily designed to provide housing to white, middle-class, lower-middle-class families," he says. African-Americans and other people of color were left out of the new suburban communities — and pushed instead into urban housing projects."

 

[Andylusion]

Sure. Economic choices.

Drastic differences in wealth and income between White and Black families today started with state sponsored racial segregation in the early 20th century (if you don't count hundreds of years of chattel slavery and Jim Crow)

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a "state-sponsored system of segregation."


RACE
Historian Says Don't 'Sanitize' How Our Government Created Ghettos
"The government's efforts were "primarily designed to provide housing to white, middle-class, lower-middle-class families," he says. African-Americans and other people of color were left out of the new suburban communities — and pushed instead into urban housing projects."

But that doesn't matter today. We know this because in the 1960s to 1970s, they moved blacks into new homes free of charge, and in a matter of years they were ghettos again.

Property values go up and down with crime and drugs.

You put people who engage in crime and drug use, into expensive homes, and in a few years, those homes will be garbage.

This is why wealth redistribution never works. You take a middle class house, give it to a ghetto dweller, and in a few years, it will be a ghetto house.

Was what happened in the 1940s bad? Sure. We know that.

But that doesn't make excuses for today. Most people start off with nothing. Most people don't get money from their parents. Most people have to get a job, and start working for what they want.

So when you see that black people per captia are poor TODAY... and far fewer whites per capita are poor TODAY... the reasons are because white people on average are getting jobs, and earning what they want.

More black people on average are not working, engaging in crime, living off the government.

My parents didn't get a house from their parents. They didn't get a free education either. Both my parents worked every single year they were in college. Both parents worked full time jobs. Both parents worked consistently 60 years. And yes I said 60 years. Not only were they work during the years they were in college, they also got jobs after they retired.

All the wealth my parents have, is because they earned it, invested it, and saved it.

Similarly, the tiny bit of wealth I have, is because I earned it, invested it, and saved it. None of it came from my parents.

Nor my sister, and her husband, who own a house. He worked full time for the past 20 years. That's why he has a house. He doesn't smoke, or drink, or gamble, or engage in crime, and he has never been on government assistance. That's why he has wealth now.

Pointing to something that happened almost 80 years ago, is a waste of time, and simply a toddler looking for someone to point a finger at.

The reason poor people are poor today, is because they made poor choices. It's that simple.

BY THE WAY... do you know why there was a housing shortage? Because the government put in place price controls, to help..... the poor. They attempted to stop the evil rich people from charging whatever the market price was for housing, and the result was.... no housing.

When you try and stop people from making a profit, there is no incentive to create new housing. Why would I invest $100,000 in a house, when I can't rent the house or sell it for a huge profit? So.... I don't build the house. Thus you have a housing shortage.

Just like Cuba, just like Venezuela, just like every anti-profit socialized system ever created.

The anti-black policies they created, were a failed attempt to fix the housing shortage for returning military men that were all coming back from war. And I should mention it didn't work.

The only solution to a problem caused by socialism, is to end the socialism. As soon as they eliminated price controls, house building boomed, and the shortage disappeared.

 

[georgephillip]

" Camps" is a polite term for degenerate druggies and alcoholics to invade areas that used to be considered parks. Years ago I visited Seattle and was shocked to see permanent tents set up in parks that were once set aside for the enjoyment of people. Citizens didn't seem to mind the likelyhood of their kids witnessing some creep shitting or pissing in public or the waste associated with permanent camps.

By some accounts one in every thirty children in the US is homeless at some point during the year.

MAGA?

National Center on Family Homelessness.

 

[georgephillip]

But that doesn't matter today. We know this because in the 1960s to 1970s, they moved blacks into new homes free of charge, and in a matter of years they were ghettos again.

Where did that happen?

 

[georgephillip]

And why would you not have an address?

Why is it that Somalis can come here from the other side of the planet, can find a place to live, but a born bred American can not?

Homeless individuals often have no physical address; although, they may have a mailing address or a non-profit center where they receive employment opportunities. Forty years ago I could find work through daily hiring halls with or without a physical address, bur those days disappeared with Reagan and Clinton.

Somali migrants fled a country deeply de-stabilized by US aggression; they are absolutely entitled to receive benefits from the country that destroyed their homeland.

 

[badger2]

One reason for b.l.m.-a.n.t.i.f.a destruction and violence is to decrease the value of real estate. Venezuela? Socialism or not, housing has become unaffordable across the planet. Home ownership is a profoundly American concept.

 

[badger2]

We note houseless U.S. Army vets living in their vans in Eugene, Oregon, who could not vote.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

So I watched a video about the fight between people who live there, verses the city allowing homeless people just destroy their property and ruin their lives. I got into a discussion with some apparent homeless supporter. My first thought was "Ok, let's dump them on your property and see how you like walking out your front door to step in human poop every day." But I decided to go a different direction. Thought I'd open my comment for response.



Richard K
This is disgusting. The city officials should be ashamed.

DiscordedBraeburn
I hope to god you are homeless one day so you learn a little humility. May the next time you say “i help those who need or want it” or allude to being that type of person, be your last.

@DiscordedBraeburn See that's the problem. I've worked at the homeless shelters. The people who don't want to be there, get a job. They find work, they earn a living, and then they move out of the shelter. We provide free job training. We provide free job placement. We provide free health clinic services. Free food. Free clothing. Even a free package bundle for moving into your apartment, with bed sheets, towels and other things you need when you start with nothing.

And yet we have people that lay in the cot, do nothing, go no where, and refuse to even attempt to better their lives.

My church has what is called the a Samartian offering. A special officer to help people in dire need within the church. Plus I have family, and extended family, all which would be willing to help me, and I them, if needed. Then I even have friends who would put me up for a short time until I could find work and my own place. On top of that, I am extremely conservative in my spending. I have no less than $5,000 in my bank account at all times, and no bills.

Before you end up homeless... where is your money that you saved, by spending less than you make? Where is your savings you have for a rainy day? Where is your family that you have maintained good relations with? Where is your extended family? Where is your church that you have been faithful to? Where are your close friends?

This is my problem with people today. You cuss out your family and tell them to get lost. You make no attempt save money. You have no close friends. You swear off the church. You cut all ties, cut friendships, have a trail of broken relationships behind you, and then.... you turn around when your life implodes, and pretend as if society itself owes you for your irresponsible behavior.

No. You dug your hole, and now you get to dig yourself out. Learn to take responsibility for your choices. Join a church, and be part of it. Get with your family, and apologize for your actions. Get friends, and treat them like they are worth knowing. Find a spouse, and treat someone as being more important than yourself. And save your money, and stop blowing it on things you don't need, so that when bad things happen... AND THEY WILL... you will have money to deal with it.

Progressive culture is very dysfunctional, primitive and backwards

 

[georgephillip]

No it has nothing to do with that.

If it did, then how do you explain wealthy and successful blacks, that started off in poverty?

There are thousands of examples.

There are tens of millions of counter-examples.
Try considering facts for once instead of your personal life experiences or statistical anomalies.
In the real world of 2020 US African Americans have a 60% income ratio with white Americans and a 5% wealth ratio. This did not happen because most Blacks are lazy; it happened as a consequence of official government policies:

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"On the FHA manual that explicitly laid out segregationist policies



"THE TWO-WAY
Interactive Redlining Map Zooms In On America's History Of Discrimination

"It was in something called the Underwriting Manual of the Federal Housing Administration, which said that 'incompatible racial groups should not be permitted to live in the same communities.'

"Meaning that loans to African-Americans could not be insured.

"In one development ... in Detroit ... the FHA would not go ahead, during World War II, with this development unless the developer built a 6-foot-high wall, cement wall, separating his development from a nearby African-American neighborhood to make sure that no African-Americans could even walk into that neighborhood."

 

[22lcidw]

No it has nothing to do with that.

If it did, then how do you explain wealthy and successful blacks, that started off in poverty?

There are thousands of examples.

There are tens of millions of counter-examples.
Try considering facts for once instead of your personal life experiences or statistical anomalies.
In the real world of 2020 US African Americans have a 60% income ratio with white Americans and a 5% wealth ratio. This did not happen because most Blacks are lazy; it happened as a consequence of official government policies:

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"On the FHA manual that explicitly laid out segregationist policies



"THE TWO-WAY
Interactive Redlining Map Zooms In On America's History Of Discrimination

"It was in something called the Underwriting Manual of the Federal Housing Administration, which said that 'incompatible racial groups should not be permitted to live in the same communities.'

"Meaning that loans to African-Americans could not be insured.

"In one development ... in Detroit ... the FHA would not go ahead, during World War II, with this development unless the developer built a 6-foot-high wall, cement wall, separating his development from a nearby African-American neighborhood to make sure that no African-Americans could even walk into that neighborhood."

If you look, you will find things. The point is that for a system that has been in a war with poverty and hunger since at least the 1960's and longer, there seems to be poverty and hunger with the added cost of tens of trillions of dollars spent on it.

 

[georgephillip]

No one was "prohibited" from buying homes. Further, if they had bought homes in the suburbs... the whites would have left the suburbs, and they would have lost value there too.

Blacks were prohibited from buying houses in white neighborhood and whites were not legally allowed to sell their house to Black families. As far as property rights vs human rights goes, you conservatives have been wrong about that choice for centuries.

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"At the same time, the FHA was subsidizing builders who were mass-producing entire subdivisions for whites — with the requirement that none of the homes be sold to African-Americans."

 

[georgephillip]

So no, the reason for black poverty is not that they were prevented from moving to the suburbs or something. They would have just made the suburbs ghettos too. The problem is crime and drugs.

Can you wrap your mind around the possibility that one major reason we see high levels of crime today in Black communities is the fact the last several generations of African Americans have been denied the right to accumulate wealth through homeownership, and that example of racism was official government policy?

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"Today African-American incomes on average are about 60 percent of average white incomes.

"But African-American wealth is about 5 percent of white wealth.

"Most middle-class families in this country gain their wealth from the equity they have in their homes.

"So this enormous difference between a 60 percent income ratio and a 5 percent wealth ratio is almost entirely attributable to federal housing policy implemented through the 20th century.

"African-American families that were prohibited from buying homes in the suburbs in the 1940s and '50s and even into the '60s, by the Federal Housing Administration, gained none of the equity appreciation that whites gained."

 

[georgephillip]

There are billionaires in EVERY SOCIALIST ECONOMY.

Name *ONE* that doesn't have billionaires? Name one. ONE!

Socialist economies have nationalized their banks.
That's not the case in Venezuela where Chavez's billionaire daughter keeps her looted money in US banks denominated in US dollars.

How does the number of billionaires in Russia today compare with USSR days?

No economic system in history has created as many billionaires as capitalism.

 

[badger2]

#53 decides to split the concept of home ownership in America with the concept of time, although the concept was growing well before the introduction of slavery, which is the bias in the argument.

 

[AZrailwhale]

So I watched a video about the fight between people who live there, verses the city allowing homeless people just destroy their property and ruin their lives. I got into a discussion with some apparent homeless supporter. My first thought was "Ok, let's dump them on your property and see how you like walking out your front door to step in human poop every day." But I decided to go a different direction. Thought I'd open my comment for response.



Richard K
This is disgusting. The city officials should be ashamed.

DiscordedBraeburn
I hope to god you are homeless one day so you learn a little humility. May the next time you say “i help those who need or want it” or allude to being that type of person, be your last.

@DiscordedBraeburn See that's the problem. I've worked at the homeless shelters. The people who don't want to be there, get a job. They find work, they earn a living, and then they move out of the shelter. We provide free job training. We provide free job placement. We provide free health clinic services. Free food. Free clothing. Even a free package bundle for moving into your apartment, with bed sheets, towels and other things you need when you start with nothing.

And yet we have people that lay in the cot, do nothing, go no where, and refuse to even attempt to better their lives.

My church has what is called the a Samartian offering. A special officer to help people in dire need within the church. Plus I have family, and extended family, all which would be willing to help me, and I them, if needed. Then I even have friends who would put me up for a short time until I could find work and my own place. On top of that, I am extremely conservative in my spending. I have no less than $5,000 in my bank account at all times, and no bills.

Before you end up homeless... where is your money that you saved, by spending less than you make? Where is your savings you have for a rainy day? Where is your family that you have maintained good relations with? Where is your extended family? Where is your church that you have been faithful to? Where are your close friends?

This is my problem with people today. You cuss out your family and tell them to get lost. You make no attempt save money. You have no close friends. You swear off the church. You cut all ties, cut friendships, have a trail of broken relationships behind you, and then.... you turn around when your life implodes, and pretend as if society itself owes you for your irresponsible behavior.

No. You dug your hole, and now you get to dig yourself out. Learn to take responsibility for your choices. Join a church, and be part of it. Get with your family, and apologize for your actions. Get friends, and treat them like they are worth knowing. Find a spouse, and treat someone as being more important than yourself. And save your money, and stop blowing it on things you don't need, so that when bad things happen... AND THEY WILL... you will have money to deal with it.

I worked as a telco technician on Los Angeles's skid row in the eighties. I got to know a lot of the homeless because I saw them every day. The ones who didn't want to be homeless got back on their feet very quickly and were gone. There are a lot of resources to help people like that. The mentally ill, alcoholics and druggies don't want help and they are there forever.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Why is it the most socialized cities in America, that spend the most on social programs, even for the homeless, have the highest rates of homeless?

I suspect the answer to that question requires looking at the relationship between homelessness and intergenerational poverty.

I come in contact with the homeless every day in my neighborhood, and I've experienced the condition a number of times during my lifetime.

Blacks are far more likely to find themselves on the streets than Whites, and you can't separate that from official US governmental policies over that past century, at least:

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"Today African-American incomes on average are about 60 percent of average white incomes.

"But African-American wealth is about 5 percent of white wealth. Most middle-class families in this country gain their wealth from the equity they have in their homes.

"So this enormous difference between a 60 percent income ratio and a 5 percent wealth ratio is almost entirely attributable to federal housing policy implemented through the 20th century.

"African-American families that were prohibited from buying homes in the suburbs in the 1940s and '50s and even into the '60s, by the Federal Housing Administration, gained none of the equity appreciation that whites gained."

No it has nothing to do with that.

If it did, then how do you explain wealthy and successful blacks, that started off in poverty?

There are thousands of examples.

No one was "prohibited" from buying homes. Further, if they had bought homes in the suburbs... the whites would have left the suburbs, and they would have lost value there too.

The problem with blaming 'white flight' is that you forget the whole reason for white flight.

It's same reason we have today in fact. Crime, drugs, domestic disturbances. Which we are now seeing crime drastically increasing in black areas, because the police are accused of racism and leaving those areas.

If you put those same black people in the suburbs, the suburbs would end up crime infested and drug infested, and end up ghettos.

I know this specifically, because we had it happen here in Hilliard Ohio where I live. The government (foolishly) allowed a Section 8 housing project in the middle of a middle class neighborhood.

That housing project decline in value like a rock, as people fled the area, because of break ins, vandalism, and drugs spread throughout the complex. The police are called there every single week for problems.

So no, the reason for black poverty is not that they were prevented from moving to the suburbs or something. They would have just made the suburbs ghettos too. The problem is crime and drugs.

Even in the ghettos today, if you eliminate all the crime, and eliminate all the drugs... those property values would start going up. It's not going to happen, because you call the police racists every time a black criminal gets an owwy.

That process happens all the time, It's even got a name. It's called "gentrification" where craphole neighborhoods get rehabilitated by affluent young people who like the ambiance or the history and push the "disadvantaged" residents out and taking financial risks that they redeem when the neighborhood becomes trendy and expensive. The liberals complain about that to because it displaces the existing residents.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Go watch this guy in Cuba, and see where he lives. And compare that to the absolute worst off, poorest, full time working people in the US.

I've lived under a bridge in this country without any access to medical care; how does that compare to the homeless in Cuba who would not be homeless absent US economic sanctions.

The US is the only country in the world with sanctions against Cuba. Cuba has free trade with every other country in the world. Cuba is a major draw for tourism. Cuba's problem is it's government and has been ever since Castro overthrew Batista.

 

[AZrailwhale]

We saw this extensively during the sub-prime crash. What was it? It was having a house, that was declining in value. You borrow $100,000 to purchase a house, and in few years, the house is worth $80,000. Now you owe more money than the house is worth

We saw an epidemic of mortgage fraud 90% of which was committed by unscrupulous lenders leading up to the sub-prime looting:

The Social Structure of Mortgage Discrimination

"Our analyses reveal specific mechanisms through which loan originators identified and gained the trust of black and Latino borrowers in order to place them into higher-cost, higher-risk loans than similarly situated white borrowers.

"Loan originators sought out lists of individuals already borrowing money to buy consumer goods in predominantly black and Latino neighborhoods to find potential borrowers, and exploited intermediaries within local social networks, such as community or religious leaders, to gain those borrowers’ trust."

A lot of that was driven by democratic processes designed to force lenders to lend to the "poor". When lenders realized that was the game they were being forced to play, they devised ways to profit from it by what the liberals now call "predatory lending". Essentially lenders would lend to anyone with a heartbeat regardless of the creditworthiness; writing off their losses on their taxes and maximizing their profits on repossessions where the borrower losses everything.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Sure. Economic choices.

Drastic differences in wealth and income between White and Black families today started with state sponsored racial segregation in the early 20th century (if you don't count hundreds of years of chattel slavery and Jim Crow)

A 'Forgotten History' Of How The U.S. Government Segregated America

"In 1933, faced with a housing shortage, the federal government began a program explicitly designed to increase — and segregate — America's housing stock. Author Richard Rothstein says the housing programs begun under the New Deal were tantamount to a "state-sponsored system of segregation."


RACE
Historian Says Don't 'Sanitize' How Our Government Created Ghettos
"The government's efforts were "primarily designed to provide housing to white, middle-class, lower-middle-class families," he says. African-Americans and other people of color were left out of the new suburban communities — and pushed instead into urban housing projects."

But that doesn't matter today. We know this because in the 1960s to 1970s, they moved blacks into new homes free of charge, and in a matter of years they were ghettos again.

Property values go up and down with crime and drugs.

You put people who engage in crime and drug use, into expensive homes, and in a few years, those homes will be garbage.

This is why wealth redistribution never works. You take a middle class house, give it to a ghetto dweller, and in a few years, it will be a ghetto house.

Was what happened in the 1940s bad? Sure. We know that.

But that doesn't make excuses for today. Most people start off with nothing. Most people don't get money from their parents. Most people have to get a job, and start working for what they want.

So when you see that black people per captia are poor TODAY... and far fewer whites per capita are poor TODAY... the reasons are because white people on average are getting jobs, and earning what they want.

More black people on average are not working, engaging in crime, living off the government.

My parents didn't get a house from their parents. They didn't get a free education either. Both my parents worked every single year they were in college. Both parents worked full time jobs. Both parents worked consistently 60 years. And yes I said 60 years. Not only were they work during the years they were in college, they also got jobs after they retired.

All the wealth my parents have, is because they earned it, invested it, and saved it.

Similarly, the tiny bit of wealth I have, is because I earned it, invested it, and saved it. None of it came from my parents.

Nor my sister, and her husband, who own a house. He worked full time for the past 20 years. That's why he has a house. He doesn't smoke, or drink, or gamble, or engage in crime, and he has never been on government assistance. That's why he has wealth now.

Pointing to something that happened almost 80 years ago, is a waste of time, and simply a toddler looking for someone to point a finger at.

The reason poor people are poor today, is because they made poor choices. It's that simple.

BY THE WAY... do you know why there was a housing shortage? Because the government put in place price controls, to help..... the poor. They attempted to stop the evil rich people from charging whatever the market price was for housing, and the result was.... no housing.

When you try and stop people from making a profit, there is no incentive to create new housing. Why would I invest $100,000 in a house, when I can't rent the house or sell it for a huge profit? So.... I don't build the house. Thus you have a housing shortage.

Just like Cuba, just like Venezuela, just like every anti-profit socialized system ever created.

The anti-black policies they created, were a failed attempt to fix the housing shortage for returning military men that were all coming back from war. And I should mention it didn't work.

The only solution to a problem caused by socialism, is to end the socialism. As soon as they eliminated price controls, house building boomed, and the shortage disappeared.

I saw that process happened in the Antelope Valley of California. I lived ina semi-rural neighborhood (lots with a minimum size of one half acre). Most of my neighbors were aerospace workers in Palmdale. When the Clinton "peace dividend" came along, they all lost their houses. Those hundred thousand plus dollar nice houses were resold to people who could barely qualify for a thirty thousand dollar mortgage and knew nothing about homeownership. Within a year a once thriving middle class neighborhood had turned into a slum of houses with broken windows and un kempt lawns. I bought my home for ninety thousand dollars, put thirty thousand into it in improvements and had to sell it for thirty thousand dollars.