“serious stain on Israel law books, because it authorises theft and robbery“

[Humanity]

The whole world will take US policy very seriously because there is no other country that carries the clout of the US.

That's the funniest thing I have read since some crazies in America, I guess that includes you, voted for a narcissistic racist Nazi bigot to become commander in chief

You are seriously delusional if you think that America has carried ANY real clout for decades! Now America is the laughing stock of the world, clout? No clout...

Oh, and I didn't say the same about Reagan...

Trump making a move to recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, against international policy, is doomed to fail, in a BIG way!

 

[toomuchtime_]

The whole world will take US policy very seriously because there is no other country that carries the clout of the US.

That's the funniest thing I have read since some crazies in America, I guess that includes you, voted for a narcissistic racist Nazi bigot to become commander in chief

You are seriously delusional if you think that America has carried ANY real clout for decades! Now America is the laughing stock of the world, clout? No clout...

Oh, and I didn't say the same about Reagan...

Trump making a move to recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, against international policy, is doomed to fail, in a BIG way!

Were you better informed you wouldn't post such stupid things. Congress has already passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act with near unanimous bipartisan support, so America is united on this issue. Other countries can either follow or become irrelevant.

 

[Phoenall]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

And reported by the LYING LEFT WING RAG that see's its circulation numbers drop every week. It has never posted a truthful article yet in regards to Israel

So disprove it.

Disprove what that the rag is a LYING POS that has seen its circulation fall in recent years

Guardian’s catastrophism leads circulation to plummet ?

Apparently, crazy non-factual opinion just doesn’t sell all that well. Kind of reminds me of the doomed “Air America” radio network.

This, is really quite something. We know the Guardian has lost just about all journalistic standards, but this one really takes the cake, especially from somebody who should know better. See the screen cap below.

 

[Phoenall]

So, who holds what deeds to this "private property" Israel is stealing?

I believe the courts have settled this issue and not in favor of the settlers. Sounds like they aren't the ones who hold the deeds.

Do you support the claims being made in regards to ownership of the land on the west bank using post 1950 land titles issued by Jordan then. Or do you accept the land titles issued by the Ottomans and British pre 1949 before the palestinians stole Jewish property and lands and passed laws to allow them to do so

 

[Phoenall]

And the ridiculous continues...

Even Netanyahu 'opposes' the bill...

Israeli ministers vote in favour of legalising outposts

,, what is ridiculous is continuing to claim that Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria are an obstacle to peace or a final status agreement. US policy under President Trump no longer considers them so.

President-Elect considers a lot of things but that hardly makes those considerations legalistic, informed or even doable.

Actually, it does. Trump will set a new US policy that will recognize the undivided city of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, move the US embassy there and dismiss the notion there is anything illegitimate about Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria and the notion such communities are obstacles to a final agreement.

Trump has come up with a lot of crazy ideas, MOST will never be implemented!

Fortunately the rest of the world has more sense than 50% of Americans and would not accept Jerusalem as an undivided capital of Israel...

Even if Trump DID set a US policy, the president elect is a laughing stock in politics and has weakened the US position in the world... The rest of the world would just point and laugh!

We just have to be grateful that there are still some sane people in the world!

YOU HOPE, otherwise you are set back even further in your hopes of world domination

 

[Humanity]

The whole world will take US policy very seriously because there is no other country that carries the clout of the US.

That's the funniest thing I have read since some crazies in America, I guess that includes you, voted for a narcissistic racist Nazi bigot to become commander in chief

You are seriously delusional if you think that America has carried ANY real clout for decades! Now America is the laughing stock of the world, clout? No clout...

Oh, and I didn't say the same about Reagan...

Trump making a move to recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, against international policy, is doomed to fail, in a BIG way!

Were you better informed you wouldn't post such stupid things. Congress has already passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act with near unanimous bipartisan support, so America is united on this issue. Other countries can either follow or become irrelevant.

An irrelevant Act passed in... 1995!!! 21 years ago that achieved? NOTHING!

Please don't assume I am 'ill informed' because I hold different views to yours my friend...

Other countries choose, fortunately, not to follow an irrelevant act passed by America, the same way America also chooses not to follow it's own irrelevant act!

 

[toomuchtime_]

The whole world will take US policy very seriously because there is no other country that carries the clout of the US.

That's the funniest thing I have read since some crazies in America, I guess that includes you, voted for a narcissistic racist Nazi bigot to become commander in chief

You are seriously delusional if you think that America has carried ANY real clout for decades! Now America is the laughing stock of the world, clout? No clout...

Oh, and I didn't say the same about Reagan...

Trump making a move to recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, against international policy, is doomed to fail, in a BIG way!

Were you better informed you wouldn't post such stupid things. Congress has already passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act with near unanimous bipartisan support, so America is united on this issue. Other countries can either follow or become irrelevant.

An irrelevant Act passed in... 1995!!! 21 years ago that achieved? NOTHING!

Please don't assume I am 'ill informed' because I hold different views to yours my friend...

Other countries choose, fortunately, not to follow an irrelevant act passed by America, the same way America also chooses not to follow it's own irrelevant act!

Ok, so you are clearly unconcerned by Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moving the US embassy there with strong bipartisan support of Congress or by Trump or of dismissing the notion of Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria as illegitimate, which will also have strong Congressional support because you believe US policy is irrelevant.

Then why even bother to comment on it?

 

[Coyote]

So, who holds what deeds to this "private property" Israel is stealing?

I believe the courts have settled this issue and not in favor of the settlers. Sounds like they aren't the ones who hold the deeds.

Do you support the claims being made in regards to ownership of the land on the west bank using post 1950 land titles issued by Jordan then. Or do you accept the land titles issued by the Ottomans and British pre 1949 before the palestinians stole Jewish property and lands and passed laws to allow them to do so

We are talking about a specific case here. Try to stick to it. Do you think the courts are wrong?

 

[Phoenall]

So, who holds what deeds to this "private property" Israel is stealing?

I believe the courts have settled this issue and not in favor of the settlers. Sounds like they aren't the ones who hold the deeds.

Do you support the claims being made in regards to ownership of the land on the west bank using post 1950 land titles issued by Jordan then. Or do you accept the land titles issued by the Ottomans and British pre 1949 before the palestinians stole Jewish property and lands and passed laws to allow them to do so

We are talking about a specific case here. Try to stick to it. Do you think the courts are wrong?

So when the comparison is made with something the arab muslims have done you dont want to know. The case is pertinent as the majority of the land titles produced are from Jordan and issued after the war of independence. The land prior to this was owned by the Jews and the palestinians enacted laws to steal the lands and dispossess the Jews. The fact remains that team palestine is denying the Jews their rights to their lands

 

[Humanity]

The whole world will take US policy very seriously because there is no other country that carries the clout of the US.

That's the funniest thing I have read since some crazies in America, I guess that includes you, voted for a narcissistic racist Nazi bigot to become commander in chief

You are seriously delusional if you think that America has carried ANY real clout for decades! Now America is the laughing stock of the world, clout? No clout...

Oh, and I didn't say the same about Reagan...

Trump making a move to recognize Jerusalem as the undivided capital of Israel, against international policy, is doomed to fail, in a BIG way!

Were you better informed you wouldn't post such stupid things. Congress has already passed the Jerusalem Embassy Act with near unanimous bipartisan support, so America is united on this issue. Other countries can either follow or become irrelevant.

An irrelevant Act passed in... 1995!!! 21 years ago that achieved? NOTHING!

Please don't assume I am 'ill informed' because I hold different views to yours my friend...

Other countries choose, fortunately, not to follow an irrelevant act passed by America, the same way America also chooses not to follow it's own irrelevant act!

Ok, so you are clearly unconcerned by Trump recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and moving the US embassy there with strong bipartisan support of Congress or by Trump or of dismissing the notion of Israel's communities in Judea and Samaria as illegitimate, which will also have strong Congressional support because you believe US policy is irrelevant.

Then why even bother to comment on it?

It's of no importance whether Trump recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel... The US will NEVER move the embassy to Jerusalem, under Trump, Clinton or any other faux 'commander in chief'...

So, stand up for your 'white supremacist' beliefs, don't be ashamed, it's ok, we understand!

Not everyone can be a full picnic... But those that do understand are far better positioned than those who think, like you, that Bannon, is also a good option in politics, should seriously consider where their ass is in relation to their brain! I will help you a little bit... They are very close to each other... You don't need to look too far, but, I fear, it may take you some time to differentiate between the two...

So, I ask you, why even bother comment on something that is so alien to you? Humanity that is...!

 

[rylah]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

So when are we going to hear your outrage about the EU/PA illegal settlements in the area.

Or is it a thing only when the Jews settle in Judea?

European Union is 'breaking international law by funding illegal West Bank building projects'

• 400 Palestinian homes have been built illegally, in 17 locations in areas of the West Bank supposed to be under Israeli control
• They fly the EU flag and put up EU signs, in contravention of the ‘Oslo Accords’, part of international law
• But EU and Oxfam say building is justified on humanitarian grounds
• One 'EU worker' pictured threatening soldiers with a rock

 

[Shusha]

So when the comparison is made with something the arab muslims have done you dont want to know. The case is pertinent as the majority of the land titles produced are from Jordan and issued after the war of independence. The land prior to this was owned by the Jews and the palestinians enacted laws to steal the lands and dispossess the Jews. The fact remains that team palestine is denying the Jews their rights to their lands

Personally, I think Israel should be generous in the extreme with land titles and claimed land titles by Palestinians in Area C. They should grant the Arabs pretty much whatever they ask for, survey the land, deed it to them and actively prevent encroachment on that land by anyone.

Israel should then clearly establish where she wants her eventual boundaries to be, in her own mind, if not publicized. Within those boundaries she should ensure access to clean water, waste disposal and electricity for all, regardless of ethnicity. She should encourage Jewish settlement in the same general locations (but never on private land). And by "encourage" I mean provide incentives up the wazhoo. She should encourage all community assets (schools, hospitals, early education centers, community programs) to be multi-cultural and equal. And when I say "encourage" I mean legislate.

Outside of those boundaries she should prevent or restrict Jewish settlement. And actively and immediately remove outposts. (Not after years of legal battles -- immediately). If a Palestinian even sighs at the sight of a Jewish outpost in those areas-- it is removed.

ALL outposts built by foreign interference -- on either side -- which attempts to circumvent Israel's sovereignty in this area should be ruthlessly and immediately torn down.

Clear message to all involved.

Israel sells this message to its own people as "We don't want them. They don't want us. So be it. We will assert sovereignty over those areas of Judea and Samaria which make practical sense and abandon those which don't."

What will be the likely result of such actions?

Some Palestinian and international whining that Israel is "stealing land". No actual consequences.

Some internal Israeli/Jewish whining that the Jewish people should be able to live where ever they want in their ancestral territory. No actual consequences. (Perhaps minimal political consequences. Learn to sell it.)

Some low level terrorism and backlash. Suck it up, Israel. We've got this. We are totally winning at that.

 

[Lipush]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

Really? How is that robbery?

Did any of you bother to check what the law says, or are you all on automat comments?

 

[Shusha]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

Really? How is that robbery?

Did any of you bother to check what the law says, or are you all on automat comments?

From my understanding we don't know IF or how the new law will affect the court rulings on places like Amona or Ofra. It may well be that existing law takes precedence. If anyone (especially those living in Israel) have more information, please present it.

I would also suggest that "robbery or theft" is not entirely accurate. The question is more one where land is appropriated and compensated for but without consent of the owner of the land.

In some circumstances, this is considered ethical and appropriate - the owners are, after all, receiving compensation in full (and my understanding is that the compensation is exceedingly generous).

My take on the matter is that if land is being appropriated simply because the owner is not of the "right" ethnicity and someone of the "right" ethnicity wants to live there -- that is unethical.

 

[rylah]

Any documentation of private ownership of the Amona land?

Ask the courts. But I'm sure your mind is decided already and the question is unnecessary.

In other words "Jordan said so".
After it conquered Judea Samaria and gave away lands for free in the 60"s to all kinds of elite families. In many of those cases those people didn't even know they "owned" any new land...

I haven't seen any documentation being presented in any the of Israeli media, those who dug the Jordanian archives for them were mainly leftist NGO's working hand in hand with same leftist court. BTW those who might have any claim had to present them to the regional courts rather than run to the HCJ straight away.

Those lands are not privately owned in the usual meaning, so again why do you single out the Jews who live in Judea Samaria?

 

[Coyote]

Any documentation of private ownership of the Amona land?

Ask the courts. But I'm sure your mind is decided already and the question is unnecessary.

In other words "Jordan said so".
After it conquered Judea Samaria and gave away lands for free in the 60"s to all kinds of elite families. In many of those cases those people didn't even know they "owned" any new land...

I haven't seen any documentation being presented in any the of Israeli media, those who dug the Jordanian archives for them were mainly leftist NGO's working hand in hand with same leftist court. BTW those who might have any claim had to present them to the regional courts rather than run to the HCJ straight away.

Those lands are not privately owned in the usual meaning, so again why do you single out the Jews who live in Judea Samaria?

Why do you single out these Palestinians who's land was taken according to the final decsion from the courts? Oh wait. They're Palestinian. They can't POSSIBLY have any rights in the matter.

 

[Coyote]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

Really? How is that robbery?

Did any of you bother to check what the law says, or are you all on automat comments?

Speaking of automat comments...why is it you automatically defend it? Are the courts meaningless in your country?

 

[Coyote]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

Really? How is that robbery?

Did any of you bother to check what the law says, or are you all on automat comments?

From my understanding we don't know IF or how the new law will affect the court rulings on places like Amona or Ofra. It may well be that existing law takes precedence. If anyone (especially those living in Israel) have more information, please present it.

I would also suggest that "robbery or theft" is not entirely accurate. The question is more one where land is appropriated and compensated for but without consent of the owner of the land.

In some circumstances, this is considered ethical and appropriate - the owners are, after all, receiving compensation in full (and my understanding is that the compensation is exceedingly generous).

My take on the matter is that if land is being appropriated simply because the owner is not of the "right" ethnicity and someone of the "right" ethnicity wants to live there -- that is unethical.

Just regarding your second to last paragraph. I don't fully agree. In the US, we have Eminent Domain Laws- very controversial but also necessary. Sometimes it's necessary to be able to take land (and properly compensate the owner) for infrastructure projects or projects related to the greater good. Unfortunately it's also abused in that it has been invoked in order to gain land for private projects that can only loosely be justified for the community's good. When that occurs it IS theft. When you take from someone something against their will - it's still theft no matter how much you compensate them for. What it amounts to is whether there is a public good in there: roads, airports, hospitals - those can be justified. Housing for one ethnic group by dispossing another can't.

I think in some cases it's clearly theft and attempting to put it in terms of "appropriations" and "compensations" is using legal terminology to soften the reality.

 

[Coyote]

Wow. Unbelievable. Outright and unabashed theft of private property.

So when are we going to hear your outrage about the EU/PA illegal settlements in the area.

Or is it a thing only when the Jews settle in Judea?

European Union is 'breaking international law by funding illegal West Bank building projects'

• 400 Palestinian homes have been built illegally, in 17 locations in areas of the West Bank supposed to be under Israeli control
• They fly the EU flag and put up EU signs, in contravention of the ‘Oslo Accords’, part of international law
• But EU and Oxfam say building is justified on humanitarian grounds
• One 'EU worker' pictured threatening soldiers with a rock

We're talking about a particular specific case that has been through the courts. What is it with you guys that you have to drag in the kitchen sink rather than actually addressing the point in the OP?

 

[rylah]

Any documentation of private ownership of the Amona land?

Ask the courts. But I'm sure your mind is decided already and the question is unnecessary.

In other words "Jordan said so".
After it conquered Judea Samaria and gave away lands for free in the 60"s to all kinds of elite families. In many of those cases those people didn't even know they "owned" any new land...

I haven't seen any documentation being presented in any the of Israeli media, those who dug the Jordanian archives for them were mainly leftist NGO's working hand in hand with same leftist court. BTW those who might have any claim had to present them to the regional courts rather than run to the HCJ straight away.

Those lands are not privately owned in the usual meaning, so again why do you single out the Jews who live in Judea Samaria?

Why do you single out these Palestinians who's land was taken according to the final decsion from the courts? Oh wait. They're Palestinian. They can't POSSIBLY have any rights in the matter.

Is putting words in my mouth a valid argument?
Check your shadow, 'cause it's you who after long absence comes here with all the melodrama dodging uncomfortable questions.

My first question is still valid, and this one above just a continuation of it...which again you conveniently dodged with more melodrama and logical fallacy.

Answer the questions.